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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/7/2009 2:32:17 PM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1394
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From: Los Angeles
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quote:
I suffer heartbreak at times.
Ahh, yes, .ben...I as well... 
That is why it is so very important to keep not only Todd in prayer, but the followers as well; that the Lord will show them the true way to Him.
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/7/2009 10:09:03 PM
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lw9
Posts: 877
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quote:
ironsharpensiron: I do not suffer from a lot of emotion, stress, hatred by this thread...it would seem you do though. Anyone else suffer from these ailments while discussing on this particular thread..?
quote:
lw9: Nope.
quote:
rawr.ben: I suffer heartbreak at times.
I was more referring to the hatred part. Contrary to Adam's comments, I don't hate Todd Bentley and I don't believe anyone else does, either. They've pointed out the harsh facts about Bentley, but clearly some just do not like to hear it. Actually it's because many care about others so much that they've spent hours in research and discussion. Warning others away from dangerous and deceptive false teaching is an act of love and concern. But I'm sure that will get twisted into something unrecognizable by Adam, as well.
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Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/8/2009 1:28:29 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5740
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From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
pointed out the harsh facts about Bentley
Ditto lw9. Pointing out harsh facts about anything is not hatred.
I don't know what the religious version of Politically Correct is,
but it's thriving. All of us are concerned about the spiritual wellness
of Bentley and those around him. Even Rick Joyner needs our prayers.
But our first concern is to those being deceived by that like. If we see
another destroying a person, we tend to the victim first. Then if possible,
attend the one destroying the other. But we don't coddle and sugar coat
them and allow them to destroy more.
The real tragedy is a man who destroyed his own family in the name of God.
There's a reason God hates divorce. God hates the travesty that divorce causes.
I have spent hours researching on this thread because I try to fight the good
fight of faith. Exposing false teachers is part of it. Tending to those who are
being destroyed by them.
Todd has not repented. He's given lip service. He's making his way back to
what he was doing before. Full speed ahead.
Satan never lets up. He has no body so he needs no rest.
The saints tire, but they can not give up vigilence.
May God reveal Himself to Todd and his ilk.
God is revealing Himself all the time to anyone truly looking.
The whole of Revelation is God being revealed, but "they repented not."
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/10/2009 9:48:49 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 168
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:
Warning others away from dangerous and deceptive false teaching is an act of love and concern. If that was all it was, I wouldn't care. What I care about is that we are constantly rooting out people who are mistaken or have bad theology and trampling them in the public square. The only way to justify running someone into a spotlight and yelling "behold the heretic!" is that you do, in fact, have a deceptive lack of care for that person. Where is the compassion that we claim to have? If we truly have compassion, seeking to kill Todd Bentley's reputation is going to be the last thing on our minds.
What is love? Love covers a multitude of sins, and love keeps no record of wrongs. Yet, the second someone who has a platform sins or has bad doctrine, they run out of town and declared "False teachers/prophets", "tools of Satan", and a hundred other less-than-glorious titles. Let's say that Todd Bentley, in his restoration period (however long it may be) has a turn for the better and begins preaching the pure apostolic Gospel. I can tell you exactly what will happen. There will be a thread started dedicated to his "new face" and the posts will be all about, "Oh yeah? Remember Lakeland? Well, he was under Rick Joyner..." "Peter Wagner..." "This story he told about this experience..." Honestly, we have way less "love" than we like to think we do. For our sake, I am glad that God is more forgiving than we are.
As I continue to tell everyone over and over again, discussing bad theology and doctrine is fine. It is when we take aim at a singular individual and examine their life with a fine-toothed comb that I take serious issue. In fact, lets make this as absolutely personal as possible...
Let's say that I left the forums completely, and some person who has just gotten saved is asking me for help with their walk with God. In this conversation, they have asked me if there are any good resources on the internet that I would suggest. Let us suppose further that I am having this conversation and I mention about how there are these forums that I used to go on, and start saying, "But do yourself a favor and don't go there. There are these people who go by the handles of lw9, Lapidoth, and soxfan that will eat your soul alive if you start to think for yourself. My goodness, they ripped into the doctrine and personal lives of Todd Bentley, Rick Joyner, and Peter Wagner without mercy, and they do the exact same thing to anybody that disagrees with them about anything! For example, on this one thread, the title 'tool of satan' was trotted out at least 4 times just because the guy said that he had a vision..." Now... tell me, is that or is that not slanderous and unloving? I think that a discussion such as this would be absolute disaster for a young christian, so aren't I loving to warn them away from people who will try their faith to the breaking point? For the sake of my "love" for the new Christian, I have thrown three very sincere people under the bus. This is the issue I am hitting on. For the sake of "love" for the faceless masses of people "being helplessly led astray" by people with bad doctrine, we are throwing preachers under the bus. Aren't we loving...... ?
quote:
Because all exchanges with you go round and round and round and I would have to take something for the ride...motionsickness Solar, if you have a serious accusation to level against me, please go ahead. However, until people stop tramping out the same tired arguments over and over again, yes, there is going to be a circular habit. The plight of evangelicalism, it would seem....
For Todd Bentley himself, I hope that God does a work in him that he will be reunited with his wife. It is unfortunate that they have had difficulty, but it is no more or less so than any of the other 50% of marriages in the church that have had serious issues. Todd Bentley is not perfect... but neither is anyone here. To barrow a phrase of Jesus, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Notice... when Jesus made that statement, it was to a woman who was caught in adultery. Translation: she got caught with the wrong guy getting friendly with her. She should have been put to death. Jesus was the only one with the right to do so (the man without sin), and Jesus told her to go and sin no more. That is love, my fellows... not this bludgeoning of reputations.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/11/2009 12:29:41 AM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1394
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
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Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/11/2009 2:14:01 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5740
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From: OKLAHOMA
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quote:
take the focus off of Mr. Bam bam
That's the way it works isn't it?
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/11/2009 8:20:25 PM
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peacebringer
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Adam, Todd Bentley and his wife cannot now be restored, since he has taken another wife. Todd Bentley promoted falsehood and lies and his reputation was damaged of his own accord. \
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http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/
http://www.peacebringer.net/phpBB3
True peace is not the absence of conflict, it is surrender to the King of Kings.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/13/2009 8:14:21 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 168
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From: Kansas City, MO
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Matthew... Am I really crazy because I have a desire to see honor and dignity among the body of Christ? Have we really fallen so far that if someone wants to see the body of Christ act like the family God has ordained them to be, they must be out of their mind? If the answer is no, then please don't suggest that it is.quote:
How serious would u like it to be? BTW, that is not an accusation...merely my personal observation
from past exchanges with you.
There is no accusation....no need to take things to the next level where I never meant it to be If you aren't accusing me of something, then I'm really not sure why you are making the statements that you are. Simply enough, what then is your point? quote:
don't want to take the focus off of Mr. Bam bam Hence the bit about honor and dignity... 
quote:
Adam, Todd Bentley and his wife cannot now be restored, since he has taken another wife. Todd Bentley promoted falsehood and lies and his reputation was damaged of his own accord. That is unfortunate... if it is true. I have never said that Todd Bentley is the Apostle Paul of this generation. I have merely said that we are focused on destroying him when we should be focused on Truth. It is Truth that abolishes lies, not pointing out how foolish the lie is. The Jesus de Miranda guy in Florida (who actually IS a false teacher and an antichrist) was not successful because his lies were that good. He is as successful as he is because the people do not know the truth about Eschatology. Running down Todd Bentley becomes irrelevant if we are establishing orthodox Christology and Pneumatology... that is where we differ. Many would rather play Whack-a-mole with whomever they dislike at the moment, and I think it is more beneficial (and Biblical) to build solid doctrine.
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/13/2009 10:03:18 AM
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stateofgrace
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Adam, did you know that the Bentley separation and divorce, and the extra-marital relationship that had begun beforehand (with the woman who he has now married), was a key factor in Todd's downfall? That is one big part of what peacebringer says, that Todd's reputation was damaged of his own accord (not the only thing, but one big thing).
There were a number of high-profile people who were also involved with the signs/wonders/revival focus that Todd was involved with, who made the difficult decision to publicly part ways with Todd because of the personal issues and the not-so-personal issues - Lee Grady from Charisma magazine being a a significant one. Lee Grady's column archive may be of interest - here is the link for columns later than Feb. 2009 link and here for earlier than Feb. 2009. He wrote numerous times about the topic, so I recommend just scanning through the column titles and summaries.
_____________________________
America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/13/2009 1:41:04 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5740
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Here's an old LINK.
Of course the video has been removed.
Which was expected as time goes on.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/14/2009 10:58:32 AM
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solarflare
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I am so up to here with anyone and everyone being able to say they have had a revelation from God and the number of sheep who are willing to go to the slaughter because they do not take the time to study their Christian handbook.
I am equally up to here with the people who insist on supporting such things irregardless of the rotten fruit produced.
The stench of rotting fruit is still in the air, yet there are those who insist that something is salvagable.
What sin must be committed before people will see that God had nothing to do with the circus of Todd Bentley? Why is it that some people are so desparate to believe no matter how inconsistent with Biblical teaching a person may be? Why are people so willing to forgive adultery and fornication and divorce? Is it because they are caught up in the same? Forgiveness is not something to be handed out as a pass for more of the same. Take a look at the life of David if you think adultery is so easily forgiven. David went to the grave with the effects of his sin even though God did forgive him. IF and that is a big if, Mr. Bentley actually was contrite, ministry should be the last thing on his mind.
Occultic practices and cheap theatric stunts are not miracles. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for people to use for profit...as is the norm for so many of these so-called miracle meetings. Weird feelings are not the litmus test if something is of God or not.
I realize that there are those who will hotly disagree and believe that the above is close to blasphemy.
It is just so tiresome to be told that God does not live in a box, or the Holy Spirit is behind bizarre occurences that have unholy effects.....
continue at your own risk.
God's word clearly and definitively disagrees with what Mr. Bentley declares as the words from God....and as for the whole gang of those who declare their visions and words from God, even though they never come true, understand that you are responsible for leading people astray.
Thanks. Had my say.
< Message edited by solarflare -- 11/14/2009 11:05:52 AM >
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/14/2009 5:34:29 PM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1394
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
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I'm with you, Solarflare!!
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/15/2009 1:47:31 AM
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lw9
Posts: 877
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solarflare, you summed it all up very well.
_____________________________
Thi4f... seriously, guys?? This does not bode well.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/16/2009 10:24:59 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 168
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
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quote:
Adam, did you know that the Bentley separation and divorce, and the extra-marital relationship that had begun beforehand (with the woman who he has now married), was a key factor in Todd's downfall? That is one big part of what peacebringer says, that Todd's reputation was damaged of his own accord (not the only thing, but one big thing). Yes, I did. I am aware that Todd Bentley was seperated from his wife because of an affair. While the divorce is new, it doesn't shake my faith that much. Honestly? God doesn't have much of a choice but to work with broken sinful people. If God were insistent that people be without stripe or spot before He did anything with them, God would never do anything. There is not a single "hero of the faith" that does not have a character flaw of some sort (except Jesus). So once again, you are discrediting anything that might have come out of Lakeland because you are focused on the person who was at the forefront of it. If you look at the whole Bathsheba bit, David is officially disqualified from leading a move of the Spirit of God. Think about this, we are driving home the fact that Todd Bentley is broken and sinful... just like ourselves. So what is to stop me from doing this exact exercise to my neighbor down the street who has been divorced twice and has a live-in girlfriend? Yes, Todd Bentley is sinful, fallen, and weak. But so am I. That is where true compassion comes from. Not from a place of "oh how evil", but rather from the place of "that could be me".quote:
There were a number of high-profile people who were also involved with the signs/wonders/revival focus that Todd was involved with, who made the difficult decision to publicly part ways with Todd because of the personal issues and the not-so-personal issues - Lee Grady from Charisma magazine being a a significant one. Lee Grady's column archive may be of interest - here is the link for columns later than Feb. 2009 link and here for earlier than Feb. 2009. He wrote numerous times about the topic, so I recommend just scanning through the column titles and summaries. You know... I have never really found it difficult to do something popular. I know that Lee Grady is waiting for revival, and I'm sure that it hurt to realize that Todd Bentley wasn't a shining example of perfection... but I have to admit that I am massively disappointed with how quickly everyone was ready to hand Todd Bentley over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh. I find it telling that Rick Joyner was interested in praying for the man and going over counseling type stuff with him, yet almost all of the rest of the evangelical church was wanting to move on. Why is it that we are so remiss to actually fight for those like Bentley instead of against them? Especially since you were so vigorous in your defense of a fellow Christian in a different thread, and yet Todd Bentley is somehow beyond grace and your compassion.quote:
I am so up to here with anyone and everyone being able to say they have had a revelation from God and the number of sheep who are willing to go to the slaughter because they do not take the time to study their Christian handbook. Solar, the answer you would propose is to take out at the knees all those people who "have their revelations" rather than actually propogating the content of the "handbook". Honestly, I would prefer we shortcut the process and expound upon the truth so that the falsehoods because inherently silly. That is why I made reference to the "Jesus de Miranda" guy in Florida earlier. If you truly care about the people who are being decieved, you are going to be very busy setting yourself about to publish proper exegetical conclusions about Christology and Pneumatology.quote:
The stench of rotting fruit is still in the air, yet there are those who insist that something is salvagable. There is. How many people got healed? How many people gave themselves to Jesus? The smell of death isn't that bad... because Jesus smells like Myrrh.quote:
What sin must be committed before people will see that God had nothing to do with the circus of Todd Bentley? Why is it that some people are so desparate to believe no matter how inconsistent with Biblical teaching a person may be? Why are people so willing to forgive adultery and fornication and divorce? As I said above, if God refused to work with weak and broken people, God would be working alone.quote:
Is it because they are caught up in the same? Assumption, innuendo, and baseless accusation are not going to make your argument look any better. quote:
Forgiveness is not something to be handed out as a pass for more of the same. But forgiveness is not something to be withheld because we don't like the person either. "How many times should I forgive my brother? Seven times?" "I tell you, you shall forgive him 70 times seven." Ring a bell?quote:
Take a look at the life of David if you think adultery is so easily forgiven. David went to the grave with the effects of his sin even though God did forgive him. Correction, adultery was forgiven when David repents in front of Nathan the Prophet. However, the illegitimate child died. I think there is a sharp difference between forgiveness and the removal of consequences. That is where we have our biggest disagreement.quote:
IF and that is a big if, Mr. Bentley actually was contrite, ministry should be the last thing on his mind. Did David stop being king? Did Judah lose his right to a tribe after sleeping with his own daughter-in-law? Once again, if God refused to work with weak and broken people, He would be working alone.quote:
I realize that there are those who will hotly disagree and believe that the above is close to blasphemy. if that is supposed to mean me, I don't call this blasphemy... I call this a waste of time and energy.quote:
quote:
I'm with you, Solarflare!!
Matthew
quote:
solarflare, you summed it all up very well. As stirring a speech as solarflare's rhetoric was, none of it answers any of the questions I have raised in my previous posts. Isn't it awesome to see that the second you stop towing the party line you can be safely ignored?
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/16/2009 12:48:11 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5740
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
As stirring a speech as solarflare's rhetoric was, none of it answers any of the questions I have raised in my previous posts. Isn't it awesome to see that the second you stop towing the party line you can be safely ignored?
Just as easy as it is to ignore the text and context of Holy Writ.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/16/2009 4:37:35 PM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1394
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
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quote:
I call this a waste of time and energy.
Obviousely you don't... 
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/16/2009 4:42:03 PM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1394
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
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quote:
As stirring a speech as solarflare's rhetoric was, none of it answers any of the questions I have raised in my previous posts. Isn't it awesome to see that the second you stop towing the party line you can be safely ignored?
And why, pray tell, should Solarflare be solely answering to you and your 'questions..?'
Were you being ignored..? I am so very sorry...I didn't realize this was your thread... 
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/16/2009 5:34:21 PM
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Grace71
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I have to agree with the premise that FurGodWurLivin is trying to make. Which I think alot of people are missing. How many of us would use the same hatred and judgment and name calling if it was our own pastor that had been caught in something non biblical? Would we be so quick to vilify? So Bentley is a false teacher, who did many things that are not scriptural. Saul, who later became Paul, one of the most important authors of the Bible, use to MURDER christians because he was deceived into thinking he was doing God's work. God still used him in a mighty way. Lets not be so sure we know what God is going to do or not do in this situation.
< Message edited by Grace71 -- 11/16/2009 5:41:28 PM >
_____________________________
When did it become ok for christians to call people names, be condescending and sarcastic? I must have not gotten that memo.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/17/2009 1:25:29 AM
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ironsharpensiron
Posts: 1394
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
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quote:
I have to agree with the premise that FurGodWurLivin is trying to make. Which I think alot of people are missing. How many of us would use the same hatred and judgment and name calling if it was our own pastor that had been caught in something non biblical? Would we be so quick to vilify? So Bentley is a false teacher, who did many things that are not scriptural. Saul, who later became Paul, one of the most important authors of the Bible, use to MURDER christians because he was deceived into thinking he was doing God's work. God still used him in a mighty way. Lets not be so sure we know what God is going to do or not do in this situation.
Todd is definately no Saul of Tarsus, and will never attain the position that Paul the Apostle did.
Todd has more than likely read the Bible, but chooses to ignore its warnings, and its Truth; he is cheating and conning people left and right and knows he is doing just that. If he truly had the Holy Spirit in him he would not be doing the things he is doing. If he did truly repent he would show it in his life, with who he chose to hang around with, and make reparations for his wrongdoings.
It's all about 'him' to Todd, not 'Him' who it should be. That is a high flyin' red flag for any sane true believer.
For what it is worth, I too know what, FurGodWurLivin, is trying to say and accomplish in his posts; although as a Christian, and as a pastor, I have a duty and responsibility to let people know who and what this Bently guy is ~ a charlaten & fruad.
If my own pastor turned into a Bently follower or started acting like him, you bet I'd be one of the first to call him out on it. I wouldn't be a very good Christian father (in the mentoring spiritual sense) if I didn't.
Matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 11/17/2009 3:05:12 AM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 168
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
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quote:
Just as easy as it is to ignore the text and context of Holy Writ. A rather bold statement that actually says absolutely nothing of any real substance. Are congratulations in order?quote:
pretty sure I only mentionned the Bentley. You mean until you start saying things like... quote:
I realize that there are those who will hotly disagree and believe that the above is close to blasphemy. ... since I am the only one really disagreeing with the common opinion here, you are either referring to me or to the faceless masses. So which is it? Are you saying that I am worshipping Todd Bentley's "gifting", or are you making assumptions about the crowd of people that "obviously must"?quote:
Please understand that this is my final address to your attempt to get me to pay attention ... I only write as you obviously cared about what I wrote and took it to heart. Even tho I was NOT addressing you. So you're polemic was addressed to...? The real question that is being left hanging here, is that unless you are responding to something I said in your above post, what was the point of saying it? quote:
Obviousely you don't...
Matthew One liners impress me not...quote:
And why, pray tell, should Solarflare be solely answering to you and your 'questions..?' Sir... if you were to read a thread such as the "I need information about IHOP-KC and Mike Bickle!" thread, you will find that if I were to outright ignore an objection, it would be focused on as proof of the "rampant falsehood" of the doctrine being argued against. So here, your logic is that objections against the commonly held opinions do not have to be answered because they are objecting to the common opinion... however, the turnabout does not seem to also be true. My point is that there is something phony with the premise of this entire discussion, and you aren't even willing to consider it.quote:
Thanks for posting the youtube vids. If there is anyone more interested here's a link to the youtube "Todd Bentley" vids. It's not like this deceiver hasn't been well documented, there are 3 pages of vids exposing this guy. And with all the documentation of harm (including physical assaults by this guy) people still want to defend him (unbelievable). Digrieze, you have missed my point. I have disagreements with Todd Bentley. I don't agree with him on a fair bit. I am not interested in defending him and proving him to be an apostle. I am only interested in why it seems impossible to carry any kind of real love for someone that we disagree with. I am not denying that Todd Bentley has issues. What I am trying to get attention to is the sheer ludicrousness (and unbiblicality) of the zeal in "exposing a documented false teacher". Were to go over the local pastors of everyone here with the same standard we are hoisting for Todd Bentley, we would be bound to find something that would disqualify every last one of them from the ministry- whether that be preaching Neo-Platonism, or emotionally neglecting their children. quote:
Todd is definitely(sp) no Saul of Tarsus, and will never attain the position that Paul the Apostle did. That is a hefty statement that bears discussion. Saying that Todd Bentley is "definitely" no Saul of Tarsus is actually a cynical statement of judgment that bears no resemblance to reality of any kind. I'll go so far as to say that Todd's failures actually make him a more likely candidate for a remarkable turnaround if he is sincere before God... ain't grace awesome?
I can't look at a Satanist and proclaim that they will never become a pastor. Why? Because God works in mysterious ways. I'm sure the early church looked as Saul and said that he had no hope of finding salvation because of his persecution against the church... and yet, that is the man who penned 3/4 of the New Testament. Saul was not just persecuting the church... Saul was persecuting Jesus himself. Then we say that Todd Bentley has no hope of anything because he has some wonky doctrine? How cynical have we really become?quote:
Todd has more than likely read the Bible, but chooses to ignore its warnings, and its Truth How do you know that he is ignoring anything? Is it because your understanding of the specific warnings and truth that you are referencing are so abundantly clear that someone would have to be a fool to not know them? I have a revelation for you... people who are fully convinced in the other direction feel the exact same way.quote:
he is cheating and conning people left and right and knows he is doing just that. You know what, you are going to have to prove that statement before it is actually valid. I can start an empiric statement with "Well, obviously..." but until I tell you why it is obvious, it is not obvious. That is one of those phrases we use to make our opinions carry more weight, but when they get pushed they are proven to merely be top-heavy.quote:
If he truly had the Holy Spirit in him he would not be doing the things he is doing. So how does that square with Peter's double life depending on whether he was around Jews or around Gentiles? Having the Holy Spirit does not mean that you suddenly stop sinning and become perfect... just ask the disciples. quote:
If he did truly repent he would show it in his life, with who he chose to hang around with, and make reparations for his wrongdoings. So... if he "truly repented" he would renounce all of his associations with Rick Joyner, Peter Wagner, Dutch Sheets and the rest, he would give back all the "millions of dollars he stole from the innocent people he deceived", and then what? I think the person who has had the most honor in this entire situation is Rick Joyner. When there was a massive problem that came to light, Joyner actually pulled Bentley out of the public sphere and has been working on both counseling and mentoring. Since that is the definition of one generation ministering to the next, it is actually Biblically accurate. I find that most of the time people make statements such as this one about what the "true fruit of repentance" would be, they are expecting something that is really not possible because it justifies feeling self-righteous.quote:
It's all about 'him' to Todd, not 'Him' who it should be Once again, easy to say... impossible to prove. But then again, I'm used to hearing that from the Western Church.quote:
For what it is worth, I too know what, FurGodWurLivin, is trying to say and accomplish in his posts ... which, in your eyes is what, exactly?quote:
although as a Christian, and as a pastor, I have a duty and responsibility to let people know who and what this Bently guy is ~ a charlaten & fruad. This is the first thing that I will have had the pleasure of even slightly agreeing with in this discussion.
Yes, as a pastor, you have a responsibility to your congregation to inform them of false doctrine and preach true theology. You have no responsibility of any kind to single out Todd Bentley as the embodiment of evil... because he is your brother in Christ. Love him or hate him, this is your spiritual brother. quote:
If my own pastor turned into a Bentley (sp) follower or started acting like him, you bet I'd be one of the first to call him out on it. I wouldn't be a very good Christian father (in the mentoring spiritual sense) if I didn't. A) But I can almost guarantee that you would make at least a half-hearted attempt to deal with that situation with your pastor before starting a mutiny. If not, then I seriously wouldn't be able to trust you in my church. Yet we wonder why we have so many different denominations... If this problem were with your local pastor, yes, you probably would call him on it. But you would do so in the proper context-- ie, a meeting with him. You wouldn't (I hope) go around to all the different members and elders of the church and tell them "can you believe what the pastor said? You know, I heard Todd Bentley say the exact same thing in Lakeland..." The reason being? That is gossip!
B) Since when are you your pastor's Spiritual Father? Or Todd Bentley's, for that matter? Simply put, my question is... Who made you the judge, jury, and executioner of all things ministerial? Too often it seems that we forget that the church is not ours, but God's. The sheep are busy hunting around for wolves in the sheep pen because we don't trust the Shepherd to protect us. If, rather than hunting down the people they disagreed with, the American church was to have spent the last 50 years focusing on orthodox Christology, I can almost guarantee you that guys like Jesus de Miranda who are actually leading church members into apostasy would not have the kind of influence they do. I can also wager a guess that guys like Todd Bentley who have some wonky doctrine would actually be much more firm in orthodox theology, thus eliminating the need for discussions like this. So the question is... where is your focus? The sheep with a wild idea or the Shepherd?
Adam
_____________________________
I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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