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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 3:36:38 PM
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earthless
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MyMasquerade
I still believe he has reached more people for God that anyone here talking about him.
You may quite surprised to know who some of us are...
quote:
ORIGINAL: MyMasquerade
You didn't answer my question, why aren't we praying for these people to get in good bible based churches instead of talking bad about someone called from God???
Who says we're not? We're concerned brothers and sisters in the Lord being obedient to God in testing all things in light of Scripture.
If you're so sure this is a genuine movement of the Holy Spirit, then perhaps you can be honest with this thread and start by taking the posts and documentation that has been provided and show us all how indeed it is from the Lord.
Thank you, I anxiously await your proper response.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: No comment. Well, maybe a short not - 5/19/2008 3:38:32 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6132
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pray4all
btw if todd is possesed by a devil as you supose, go down to Lakeland and cast it out, greater is he that is within me than he that is in the world, stop crying and do something about it
Who said he is possessed by the demonic? Please refer me to the post number, thank you.
Also, we're doing our share of God's mandate in this very thread and via this very medium (the Internet). We're testing all things in light of Scripture and calling out that which is contrary, sounding the alarm and warning the brethren.
That is honorable and pleases God.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 3:43:16 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1136
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pray4all:
quote:
and a footnote I have probably already lead a thousand to the Lord, so all you nay sayers can zip your lip. all on the streets, not in pulpits...
I dare you go out and face the enemy, win some souls, cast out some devils, lay hands on the sick and see the Glory of God, when they get healed. do something to actualy please the Lord because you Love Him with all your heart. stop playing stupid games, I'm so righteous I got a head knowledge about the Bible, look at me can I impress you with my theology, no you can't, show the truth by the Word and the demonstrating of the power of God. you don't have it cause you put God in a box, you put your candle under a bushell basket.
Unfortunately, all I hear coming from you are charismatic buzz words, emotional highs, and a lot of arrogance. I can find the same emotional enthusiasm after a rock concert or a football game. Emotions and buzz words aren't the proof of truth, and arrogance isn't a fruit of the Spirit. Rather than engage in serious discussion and address the issues in a reasonable manner, you choose this route of posting inflammatory personal remarks and false accusations instead. This does not speak well for you or for the 'revival'.
Questioning and challenging people like Todd Bentley is what Christians should be doing. It's not arrogance, and it's not a matter of showing off head knowledge. It's a simple matter of comparing scripture to what is being taught and practiced, being discerning, rejecting the false, and warning others AS WE ARE COMMANDED TO DO. It is obediance to God to do these things.
God commands that we test all things through scripture, but I have not seen you even attempt to answer for Todd's unBiblical teachings and practices once here. Why is that? Does the word of God not apply to Todd Bentley? Does it not apply to you? Are emotional experiences and signs and wonders more important than the truth to you? If you seriously have any desire to show us that what Todd Bentley is teaching, practicing, and prophecying is Biblically correct and in line with God's will, then discuss and address the valid questions we are raising. Otherwise all you're presenting is ecstatic but empty words.
Note to all: Please make sure the original title of the thread is in the subject bar before you post. The thread title keeps changing and people won't know where to find this thread.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 5/19/2008 3:58:19 PM >
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: No comment. Well, maybe a short not - 5/19/2008 3:47:55 PM
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pray4all
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lairdutemps
Where did I say he was possessed by a devil? And by the way, a person needs to want deliverance to get it and a person needs to know how to keep them out or it will come back with 7 more worse than it. Jesus said that, I did not.
Also, I do believe that the correct translation concerning a person with demonic spirits - is that they have the demon not the other way around.
And your post was very confrontational and not helpful.
luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. 50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
well if he is possesed by demons as some imply, you got to cast it out, then present your truth before 7 more come back
but then again if you got no Holy Ghost power you could end up with a black eye and running out of the convention center naked
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RE: No comment. Well, maybe a short not - 5/19/2008 3:48:59 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6132
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pray4all
well if he is possesed by demons as some imply
Where did someone (anyone) in this thread say that?
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 3:54:18 PM
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2shaye
Posts: 5428
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: So. Cal.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
pray4all:
quote:
and a footnote I have probably already lead a thousand to the Lord, so all you nay sayers can zip your lip. all on the streets, not in pulpits...
I dare you go out and face the enemy, win some souls, cast out some devils, lay hands on the sick and see the Glory of God, when they get healed. do something to actualy please the Lord because you Love Him with all your heart. stop playing stupid games, I'm so righteous I got a head knowledge about the Bible, look at me can I impress you with my theology, no you can't, show the truth by the Word and the demonstrating of the power of God. you don't have it cause you put God in a box, you put your candle under a bushell basket.
Unfortunately, all I hear coming from you are charismatic buzz words, emotional highs, and a lot of arrogance. I can find the same emotional enthusiasm after a rock concert or a football game. Emotions and buzz words aren't the proof of truth, and arrogance isn't a fruit of the Spirit.
lw9, I'm not purposely intending to "pick" on you, but you've gotten me to thinking. I'm still sincerely trying to sort this all out and find where I stand.
You, and others, have mentioned "emotions" a few times. Pray4all sounds like he (she) IS emotional. But.... God created us as emotional beings. A fruit of the spirit is Joy - isn't that, or can't that be an emotion? Sometimes the Spirit gives me joy and I have been known to act, well, joyfull! Some might liken it to emotional enthusiasm after a rock concert or a football game.
Again, I don't mean to pick on you. It seems like I agree with one side of this debate, then I agree with the other side. I'm just really trying to find the truth with an open heart to God.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 3:56:54 PM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1510
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
lw9, I'm not purposely intending to "pick" on you, but you've gotten me to thinking. I'm still sincerely trying to sort this all out and find where I stand.
You, and others, have mentioned "emotions" a few times. Pray4all sounds like he (she) IS emotional. But.... God created us as emotional beings. A fruit of the spirit is Joy - isn't that, or can't that be an emotion? Sometimes the Spirit gives me joy and I have been known to act, well, joyfull! Some might liken it to emotional enthusiasm after a rock concert or a football game.
Again, I don't mean to pick on you. It seems like I agree with one side of this debate, then I agree with the other side. I'm just really trying to find the truth with an open heart to God.
Watch the goings on at this "revival" and others in the past. There is not teaching, preaching, studying. Just a bunch of people yelling, jumping, flopping, falling, etc
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: No comment. Well, maybe a short not - 5/19/2008 4:02:48 PM
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2shaye
Posts: 5428
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
I lost count how many times you and others here have use that "God in a box" line.
Translated: Putting "God in a box" means not falling for the signs and wonders going on at these Charismatic freak shows (Brownsville, Toronto, Lakeland)
I can say that I used to put God in a box. I only knew Him "one way" - the way I was taught growing up. When I met my pentecostal husband, he challenged me on why I believed the way I did. I've been learning more and more about God, and especially the past 3 years, I can very easily look back and see how the way I thought God should act, be, etc, was clearly the way I had been taught, and may not have been 100% correct. God DOES act, move, etc differently than I can fathom! Sometimes I'm not even comfortable with it! That doesn't mean I'm "falling for signs and wonders". It means I'm growing in my knowledge of who God is.
So Soxfan, I don't agree with your translation. Maybe sometimes, but not always.
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aka Skipperjoe
I Love New York!
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 4:04:37 PM
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2shaye
Posts: 5428
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: So. Cal.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
Watch the goings on at this "revival" and others in the past. There is not teaching, preaching, studying. Just a bunch of people yelling, jumping, flopping, falling, etc
I've seen some great worship too - you forgot to mention that.
_____________________________
aka Skipperjoe
I Love New York!
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 4:11:27 PM
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pray4all
Posts: 345
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
pray4all:
quote:
and a footnote I have probably already lead a thousand to the Lord, so all you nay sayers can zip your lip. all on the streets, not in pulpits...
I dare you go out and face the enemy, win some souls, cast out some devils, lay hands on the sick and see the Glory of God, when they get healed. do something to actualy please the Lord because you Love Him with all your heart. stop playing stupid games, I'm so righteous I got a head knowledge about the Bible, look at me can I impress you with my theology, no you can't, show the truth by the Word and the demonstrating of the power of God. you don't have it cause you put God in a box, you put your candle under a bushell basket.
Unfortunately, all I hear coming from you are charismatic buzz words, emotional highs, and a lot of arrogance. I can find the same emotional enthusiasm after a rock concert or a football game. Emotions and buzz words aren't the proof of truth, and arrogance isn't a fruit of the Spirit.
lw9, I'm not purposely intending to "pick" on you, but you've gotten me to thinking. I'm still sincerely trying to sort this all out and find where I stand.
You, and others, have mentioned "emotions" a few times. Pray4all sounds like he (she) IS emotional. But.... God created us as emotional beings. A fruit of the spirit is Joy - isn't that, or can't that be an emotion? Sometimes the Spirit gives me joy and I have been known to act, well, joyfull! Some might liken it to emotional enthusiasm after a rock concert or a football game.
Again, I don't mean to pick on you. It seems like I agree with one side of this debate, then I agree with the other side. I'm just really trying to find the truth with an open heart to God.
open hearts to God will get you your answers from God, that's what Lakeland is about, our hearts cry out to God for more of Him, He (God) is all I desire. I can honestly tell God I love you with all that I am, knowing that He knows my heart, I'm sorry if that offends people, but when we can honestly say that, then yes we do have an emotional, with all our being relationship, because that broken relationship has been restored. God loves us we need to Love him, so that it is not a one sided relationship. that is where the Joy is
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RE: No comment. Well, maybe a short not - 5/19/2008 4:12:54 PM
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itsnotwhatuthink
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o
< Message edited by lairdutemps -- 5/20/2008 11:04:12 AM >
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 4:13:02 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1136
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
2shaye: w9, I'm not purposely intending to "pick" on you, but you've gotten me to thinking. I'm still sincerely trying to sort this all out and find where I stand.
You, and others, have mentioned "emotions" a few times. Pray4all sounds like he (she) IS emotional. But.... God created us as emotional beings. A fruit of the spirit is Joy - isn't that, or can't that be an emotion? Sometimes the Spirit gives me joy and I have been known to act, well, joyfull! Some might liken it to emotional enthusiasm after a rock concert or a football game.
No worries, and it's a fair question. I'm glad you asked so I can clarify this. 
I don't reject emotions at all - God knows I have enough emotions of my own - but my point is that they have their place and they must not take the place of truth. Emotions can result from hearing the truth, absolutely, BUT emotions are not THE truth, and they're certainly not the test of truth. Too many confuse good feelings as being the truth and rely on their emotions to lead them. Example: "This feels good therefore God must approve" or "This crowd is really excited therefore God must be operating here."
When we see large gatherings of people being whipped into an emotional high even though false teachings, false prophecies, and false visions and false angels are being presented, then those emotions are actually helping to lead people right into a deception, and that is what I see happening in Lakeland. Operating on an emotional high at the expense of the truth is a very real and very deadly danger.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 5/19/2008 4:25:54 PM >
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 4:18:44 PM
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2shaye
Posts: 5428
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: So. Cal.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
2shaye: w9, I'm not purposely intending to "pick" on you, but you've gotten me to thinking. I'm still sincerely trying to sort this all out and find where I stand.
You, and others, have mentioned "emotions" a few times. Pray4all sounds like he (she) IS emotional. But.... God created us as emotional beings. A fruit of the spirit is Joy - isn't that, or can't that be an emotion? Sometimes the Spirit gives me joy and I have been known to act, well, joyfull! Some might liken it to emotional enthusiasm after a rock concert or a football game.
No worries, and it's a fair question. I don't reject emotions at all, but my point is that they have their place and they must not take the place of truth. Emotions can result from hearing the truth, absolutely, BUT emotions are not the truth. Too many confuse good feelings as being the truth and rely on their emotions to lead them. Example: This feels good therefore God must approve.
When we see large gatherings of people being whipped into an emotional high even though false teachings, false prophecies, and false visions and false angels are being presented, then those emotions are actually helping to lead people right into a deception, and that is what I see happening in Lakeland. Operating on an emotional high at the expense of the truth is a very real and very deadly danger.
Thank you for clarifying. May I ask another question? Can large gatherings of people have a "group high" so to speak, and not be because of false teachings, prophecies, visions, etc? Can they have this because of the truth of the Lord?
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aka Skipperjoe
I Love New York!
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 4:30:20 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1136
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quote:
2shaye: Thank you for clarifying. May I ask another question? Can large gatherings of people have a "group high" so to speak, and not be because of false teachings, prophecies, visions, etc? Can they have this because of the truth of the Lord?
I believe large groups could gather, worship God, and feel a great 'group joy' because of the truth, absolutely. If it's for real, they will worship God in truth first and foremost and test the spirits. None of us can ignore God's command to test all spirits in order to chase after signs, wonders, and emotional highs.
Because the Bible flat out confirms that Todd Bentley is a false prophet and false teacher, there's no way I can attribute this 'revival' to the Lord. To do so would be way wrong on my part. God's word is truth. When a false teacher [a liar] leads a gathering like this - complete with false signs and wonders, false miracles, false manifestations, false visions, false prophecy, false teaching, and new age spirit guides called 'angels' - I have no problem stating this is a deception and not a revival of God.
Here's a scripture that so many overlook, but it's worth repeating:
Deut 13:1 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying ‘Let us go after other gods [whom you have not known] and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for the Lord your God is testing you to find out if you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.”
So, yes, false prophets do serve a purpose at times.
< Message edited by lw9 -- 5/19/2008 4:45:27 PM >
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 4:32:10 PM
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dwtramm
Posts: 280
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 2shaye
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
pray4all:
quote:
and a footnote I have probably already lead a thousand to the Lord, so all you nay sayers can zip your lip. all on the streets, not in pulpits...
I dare you go out and face the enemy, win some souls, cast out some devils, lay hands on the sick and see the Glory of God, when they get healed. do something to actualy please the Lord because you Love Him with all your heart. stop playing stupid games, I'm so righteous I got a head knowledge about the Bible, look at me can I impress you with my theology, no you can't, show the truth by the Word and the demonstrating of the power of God. you don't have it cause you put God in a box, you put your candle under a bushell basket.
Unfortunately, all I hear coming from you are charismatic buzz words, emotional highs, and a lot of arrogance. I can find the same emotional enthusiasm after a rock concert or a football game. Emotions and buzz words aren't the proof of truth, and arrogance isn't a fruit of the Spirit.
lw9, I'm not purposely intending to "pick" on you, but you've gotten me to thinking. I'm still sincerely trying to sort this all out and find where I stand.
You, and others, have mentioned "emotions" a few times. Pray4all sounds like he (she) IS emotional. But.... God created us as emotional beings. A fruit of the spirit is Joy - isn't that, or can't that be an emotion? Sometimes the Spirit gives me joy and I have been known to act, well, joyfull! Some might liken it to emotional enthusiasm after a rock concert or a football game.
Again, I don't mean to pick on you. It seems like I agree with one side of this debate, then I agree with the other side. I'm just really trying to find the truth with an open heart to God.
As far as emotions, they can be very subjective. Just because their is joy, does not make this a true movement from God. Just because people say a sinner's prayer, does not necessarily mean that people are truly come to faith in Christ.
There is something that is not subjective, and that is the Word of God - the Bible.
I've seen in this thread so far many who are opposing the revival, most of them are appealing to Scripture, which again is not subjective.
I've also seen many in this thread who are in support of this revival. There is a few that may use Scripture, but most are appealing to what they felt, experienced, and some emotional experience, which again is highly subjective and can be deceptive as well.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 4:35:58 PM
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2shaye
Posts: 5428
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: So. Cal.
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
quote:
2shaye: Thank you for clarifying. May I ask another question? Can large gatherings of people have a "group high" so to speak, and not be because of false teachings, prophecies, visions, etc? Can they have this because of the truth of the Lord?
I believe large groups could gather, worship God, and feel a great 'group joy' because of the truth, absolutely. If it's for real, they will worship God in truth first and foremost and test the spirits. None of us can ignore God's command to test all spirits in order to chase after signs, wonders, and emotional highs.
Thanks. You've replied very graciously without sarcasm or rudeness and I really appreciate it. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and keep asking you questions! I'm not being snarky, I hope you can tell. I'm REALLY wanting to know. What would it look like - a large group worshiping God in truth; and the flip side - what would it look like for a large group to be worshiping God without the truth. I realize you would give your opinion. I wish I could convey to you my sincerity in this. I'm not great with written words.....
_____________________________
aka Skipperjoe
I Love New York!
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 4:47:07 PM
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pray4all
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well people, gonna go pray this stuff off, got campmeetings tonight, looking forward to gathering with my brothers and sisters and giving praise to God, sure wish Lakeland was closer
thank God church is open all week I feel like shouting, GLORY TO GOD, THANK YOU JESUS !!!!!
God bless
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 4:57:48 PM
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dwtramm
Posts: 280
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Today, I typed in Todd Bentley's name on Youtube and watched quite a few of the videos. Now some of them are from the Toronto days, and some from Lakeland.
Now I know that these are short snippets of the services and his speaking, so there may have been quite a few things missed.
But in what I saw, I didn't see any text that was opened and explained from Scripture.
What I saw was him talking about revelations he received, angelic visitations, amongst other things.
As I was watching these things, this Scripture immediately came to my mind.
Galatians 1:8-9 ESV. "(8) But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. (9) As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed."
Those are very strong words from the Apostle Paul. And sadly, this is what I think is happening in Lakeland...this is my opinion based first on what I feel Scripture is saying, and second, from the evidence I've seen so far.
Not only should we be praying for people who are attending the revival, but I think prayer needs to go up for Todd and others in leadership.
Error like this is a very dangerous thing. And sadly, when this is all over, many people are going to be hurt, confused, or looking for the next move to hit.
This is what happened with Brownsville, which I at one time supported.
And honest examination of Brownsville will reveal that many who professed faith, walked away, or were truly not saved. Many churches that I know of had division occur or even splits in a few cases, all because some people wanted to experience what they did at Brownsville, while others didn't.
It caused controversy and division to appear within many of these churches, which is not what the Holy Spirit is in the business of doing.
I long for a move of God. A move that is not based on some emotional high, but that comes from the Scriptures preached.
No offense, but I longed to see people running to their Bibles picking them up and studying them as if it is life or death, or running to their individual churches, longing for God to speak to them from His Holy Word, with a hunger and thirst that can't be quenched by anything else, than running around to the next crusade, the next series of meetings, where emotions run high and entertainment is confused as anointing.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 5:07:50 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1136
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
2shaye: I'm not being snarky, I hope you can tell.
I can totally see that, so no worries!
quote:
I'm REALLY wanting to know. What would it look like - a large group worshiping God in truth; and the flip side - what would it look like for a large group to be worshiping God without the truth.
Well... it would look Biblical! LOL! I know that sounds too simplistic but it's really the only answer I can give.
Think back to the weekly gathering of the saints in their local churches. Think back to what was preached and how it was preached to the crowds by Jesus and the Apostles. Think back to the crowds that followed them and how they behaved. What did all of that look like?
Jesus and the Apostles called for repentance and they spoke the bottom line truth in reason and in love at all times. They spoke of hell and heaven, judgment and mercy, eternal death and eternal life. There were people being convicted of the truth and brought to repentance which would have resulted in true godly sorrow. There were people being saved which would have resulted in joy. But Biblically, in those gatherings there was no whipping people into a chaotic emotional hysteria or the false signs and wonders we see today.
The focus was on the gospel truth rather than angels, grand dreams and visions, trips to heaven, or the 'greatness' of men.
What follows Todd Bentley? Does it look Biblical? Does it act Biblical? Does it sound Biblical?
quote:
I'm not great with written words.....
Me either, as you can tell by how many times I edit my posts! 
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 5:14:59 PM
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itsnotwhatuthink
Posts: 111
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o
< Message edited by lairdutemps -- 5/20/2008 11:03:47 AM >
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 5:23:14 PM
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lw9
Posts: 1136
Joined: 7/22/2005
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quote:
dwtramm: I long for a move of God. A move that is not based on some emotional high, but that comes from the Scriptures preached.
That is a beautiful sentiment.
_____________________________
Aperture Science. We do what we must because we can.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 5:29:46 PM
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earthless
Posts: 6132
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
Status: offline
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pray4all,
When you get a chance.. can you please, perhaps, one day take a moment to explain to us how and why you keep using the term 'anointing' in an incorrect manner? I know it is what is used in Word of Faith/Latter Rain circles, but the use of the word is biblically incorrect and opens the doors to a lot of other errors.
Please let me know when you can do this, thank you.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/19/2008 5:43:16 PM
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