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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 10:52:19 AM
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howling wind
Posts: 180
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From: Texas, y'all...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
I'll say this once and let everyone else to their busying themselves with slaughtering fellow sheep...
I know that there has been at least one genuine miracle happen at the lakeland revival. My friend's sister has been suffering with a mysterious auto-immune disease that the doctors couldn't diagnose, treat, or cure. It was to the point that her gallbladder had been removed and the disease was beginning to attack her brain. She went to Lakeland and got prayed for. Guess what... she isn't sick any more. Think what you like about Todd Bently, Rick Joyner, Pensacola, Brownsville, Toronto, or whatever... but I know beyond shadow or turning that something positive has happened out there, at least once.
Adam
I am reminded of the quote "Even Hitler made the trains run on time."
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They banned my last avatar!
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 10:56:44 AM
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wintery
Posts: 1328
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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angel "Emma"...what does it mean?
Emma means "universal".
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 10:57:45 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5392
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From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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The following REALLY disturbs me:
quote:
We discovered (through a simple Google search) that Todd Bentley supossedly had an angel appear to him by the name of "Emma O"...., which again, he mentioned last night, whom, he claims, changed his life, attributes his salvation to as well as prophetic visions, etc. THIS he, himself mentioned on last night's broadcast. (It seems that all these "prophets" have angels and prophetic visions.) Well, of course, we wondered who in the world is Emma O??? and "googled" her....since we also saw a mention of this being a demon.... Yes! Without a doubt! The Japanese Buddhist god of the underworld (from the Sanskrit Yama). He lives in the Yellow Springs under the earth. EMMA-O: King of Hell... the overlord of hell (Jigoku), corresponding to the Indian deity Yama. Jigoku is ruled over by Emma-o, the Japanese lord of death In Japan. Yanluo is referred to as Emma (older Yemma), or Emma-ō (閻魔大王 Enma Dai-Ō, "Great King Yama"). SOURCE
I am reminded of Galatians 1:8 "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!"
HOW IN THE WORLD can this not bother people who claim to be Christians?
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 10:58:52 AM
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earthless
Posts: 5392
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From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
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2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 11:08:49 AM
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wintery
Posts: 1328
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
The following REALLY disturbs me:
quote:
We discovered (through a simple Google search) that Todd Bentley supossedly had an angel appear to him by the name of "Emma O"...., which again, he mentioned last night, whom, he claims, changed his life, attributes his salvation to as well as prophetic visions, etc. THIS he, himself mentioned on last night's broadcast. (It seems that all these "prophets" have angels and prophetic visions.) Well, of course, we wondered who in the world is Emma O??? and "googled" her....since we also saw a mention of this being a demon.... Yes! Without a doubt! The Japanese Buddhist god of the underworld (from the Sanskrit Yama). He lives in the Yellow Springs under the earth. EMMA-O: King of Hell... the overlord of hell (Jigoku), corresponding to the Indian deity Yama. Jigoku is ruled over by Emma-o, the Japanese lord of death In Japan. Yanluo is referred to as Emma (older Yemma), or Emma-ō (閻魔大王 Enma Dai-Ō, "Great King Yama"). SOURCE
I am reminded of Galatians 1:8 "But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!"
HOW IN THE WORLD can this not bother people who claim to be Christians?
Another quote from this same article that stands out:
"Then the little boy with CP who was "healed" on Saturday night.He was there again in the same condition as last night."
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 11:46:35 AM
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lw9
Posts: 1175
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Here's a little more complete transcript of the VIDEO interview wintery mentioned of Todd and the woman with melanoma. Keep in mind that in the interview Todd claims to operate in the word of knowledge and know the condition of the body of the person coming forward:
Todd: What word of knowledge did you respond to when I called out?
Woman: The melanoma on the left calf leg.
Todd: On the left? It's a melanoma cancer on the skin?
Woman: And it was removed.
Todd: I thought it was removed.
Todd: It's damaged the nerves in your calf?
Woman: It probably has. I don't know about that part.
Todd: Is there sudden cold?
Woman: Not that I know, but there's a major scar here from it.
Todd: Lord, just touch her here tonight because I saw that in the spirit.
So... what exactly *did* Todd know through his alleged word of knowledge about this woman?? Nothing. Nada. Zilch. He got the nerve damage wrong, he got the sudden cold wrong, but AFTER she volunteers information about a scar he makes sure to latch onto to that and claim he 'saw it in the spirit'. Come on, people. Wise up. He's doing a cold reading.
Something even more important to note: When specifically asked about "God's purpose in allowing you to do this now", Todd doesn't talk about the gospel of Jesus Christ or salvation... not even once. He talks solely about his operation in the 'word of knowledge, his visions, his 'gift', the supernatural and how hungry people are for it, changes in the 'spirit', the exciting atmosphere, the worldwide attention, the visions, the apparitions, the signs and wonders. And that, my friends, is the big tip off.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 12:23:10 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1328
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
He got the nerve damage wrong, he got the sudden cold wrong, but AFTER she volunteers information about a scar he makes sure to latch onto to that and claim he 'saw it in the spirit'. Come on, people. Wise up. He's doing a cold reading.
It sure looks that way to me. IF true---That means he _knows_ it, knows what he's doing. That means the attendees are _on_their_own as far as approaching God for an answer. They _might_ be better off praying at home.
quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
And that, my friends, is the big tip off.
If I were jumping up and down and getting giddy over buzz words and saw the guy gathering the info from the participant and then "confirming" what they say, an old mind-reading trick, I would call it "the big _rip_off."
For the healthy it may be just embarassing, but for the sick, tragic.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 12:52:21 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2518
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
Lynne Breidenbach, a revival spokeswoman, said Bentley would not publicly discuss what he is paid.
The guy is a con-artist.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 12:53:20 PM
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wintery
Posts: 1328
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
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Todd Bentley: “If I paid the price like other great men & woman of God of history and the bible… could I walk in the presence of God like them?”
source is today's Stephen Strader bulletin
How many of you know this is wrong? If God heals, then you, I, we have nothing to do with it, we do not heal, God does. Todd has surrounded himself with Bob Jones and Paul Cain and expressed his admiration for Branham, Kuhlman, and Hinn. He's on the wrong track and the wrong understanding.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 1:12:22 PM
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HisLamb26
Posts: 353
Joined: 4/17/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: howling wind
quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
I'll say this once and let everyone else to their busying themselves with slaughtering fellow sheep...
I know that there has been at least one genuine miracle happen at the lakeland revival. My friend's sister has been suffering with a mysterious auto-immune disease that the doctors couldn't diagnose, treat, or cure. It was to the point that her gallbladder had been removed and the disease was beginning to attack her brain. She went to Lakeland and got prayed for. Guess what... she isn't sick any more. Think what you like about Todd Bently, Rick Joyner, Pensacola, Brownsville, Toronto, or whatever... but I know beyond shadow or turning that something positive has happened out there, at least once.
Adam
I am reminded of the quote "Even Hitler made the trains run on time."
With all those believers in one place, praying for healing...I'm not suprised there may be a handful of legitimate healings. I do believe that many folks that attend these things really think they are seeking God.
All that being said...I would say perhaps God may move IN SPITE of the overwhelming fleecing of the sheep....One or Two real healings though does not make this a legitmate "revival", nor does it give Todd Bently any credibility.
If God can use a donkey and all that.........
Now tell me....What purpose would a believer have for gold teeth, when people are dying in food riots in Africa?
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 1:43:01 PM
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Anisavta
Posts: 707
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Northern CA
Status: offline
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quote:
I know that there has been at least one genuine miracle happen at the lakeland revival. My friend's sister has been suffering with a mysterious auto-immune disease that the doctors couldn't diagnose, treat, or cure. It was to the point that her gallbladder had been removed and the disease was beginning to attack her brain. She went to Lakeland and got prayed for. Guess what... she isn't sick any more. Think what you like about Todd Bently, Rick Joyner, Pensacola, Brownsville, Toronto, or whatever... but I know beyond shadow or turning that something positive has happened out there, at least once.
Adam - if your friend's sister went back to the Dr and had tests done to determine healing then by all means rejoice in her healing. But just to say I have a friend and a sister of the friend was healed as proof of Todd's ministry is not convincing.
Our G~d is a healing G~d and will heal inspite of us (Praise His Name) so in fact this lady may very well have been healed and not because of Todd. He can heal someone as they sit by a garbage can in a back alley all alone if He so chooses. And to be honest I think that would be more of His MO so He could recieve all the glory.
Having listened to the video clip of the interview my red flags were waving big time. This guy is pretty proud of himself that he can gather large crowds to tap into the supernatural. And the supernatural it is -but not necessarily the power of the Holy One. Just as in 1st Century Israel, the people were looking for Messiah Ben David - the conquering Messiah one who would deliever them from outward oppression so they missed Messiah Ben Joseph all together who was the suffering servant. So now people want bang for their buck and overlook the One who wants to save from the inside out. And Todd was praying that the L~rd would heal their scars and birth marks?????
1Jn 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but try the spirits to see if they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1Jn 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God;
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the antichrist you heard is coming, and even now is already in the world.
1Jn 4:4 You are of God, little children, and you have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
1Jn 4:5 They are of the world, therefore they speak of the world, and the world hears them.
< Message edited by Anisavta -- 5/6/2008 1:50:02 PM >
_____________________________
Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 6:29:49 PM
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FurGodWurLivin
Posts: 1146
Joined: 4/17/2005
From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:
Some will defend anything and anyone that comes in the "name of Jesus".
Some will cling to anyone who claims to be a prophet or an apostle.
And some will never, ever, say another's teachings are false.
I will gladly dispute someone's teachings, and I have done so several times on these forums. So I guess you aren't referring to me... I am not defending Todd Bently, I am defending the fact that at least one person was majorly rocked by the presence of God at the meeting, evidenced by the radical healing of her body.quote:
Should we praise Todd or Jesus? Who should we praise for the writing of the New Testament? Paul or Jesus? Of course you praise Jesus for what happened. Considering that the overall majority of people are praising Jesus for what is happening, at least somebody has their priorities in the right place.quote:
Adam...it would appear that if this situation has been related to you in an accurate manner, your friend's sister would have evidence of her healing (I do remain wary of third-hand reports in general, though). If she does, why doesn't she come forward with it? It would be a great testimony to God's healing power. ......... she did........ hence, I told you about it. The evidence of her healing is that until she went there she had been crying herself to sleep because of her intense pain and now she has none. Oh, and after going to the doctor she doesn't have that disease anymore. The doctors still have no clue what she was sick with, but she is not sick anymore.quote:
I am reminded of the quote "Even Hitler made the trains run on time." Congratulations on comparing Todd Bently to a demonic world leader that instigated the single deadliest war in history......quote:
Adam - if your friend's sister went back to the Dr and had tests done to determine healing then by all means rejoice in her healing. But just to say I have a friend and a sister of the friend was healed as proof of Todd's ministry is not convincing.
Our G~d is a healing G~d and will heal inspite of us (Praise His Name) so in fact this lady may very well have been healed and not because of Todd. He can heal someone as they sit by a garbage can in a back alley all alone if He so chooses. And to be honest I think that would be more of His MO so He could recieve all the glory. I said nothing about Todd or his ministry. All I said was that there was at least one genuine miracle in Lakeland. Feel free to think what you like, but there is at least a little bit of positive coming out of it.quote:
Notice the gist of the talk is to move into mystical experience presented as if that is a more alive word of God than the written word, rhema versus logos. They may dress it up like that but they obviously believe a mystical experience, smelling vanilla, seeing little flickers of light and colors, is superior to coming to know God through His word. Not smart. Actually, they aren't elevating these experiences above the Scripture. That is assumption. Basically, if I'm reading your posts correctly, you either believe that subjective experiences don't happen at all, or that they are to be kept to one's self. Too bad Paul's conversion made it into Acts, eh?
Adam
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I am hyena, Jesus is my Mufasa...
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 6:32:56 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: online
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Getting back to what was posted earlier.. what has been milling through my mind today as I am writing a perspective on something else, but oddly related.. is how the "angel" Todd claims he speaks with and he attributes for his salvation, etc is the same name of a demon different religions and occultic groups lay claim to.
I wonder if he is aware of that Emma O connection.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 6:41:44 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 1015
Joined: 3/24/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Anisavta
I checked out Todd's myspace page.
It's sad. He looks like a great biker dude who just got caught up in himself. No doubt the L~rd did use him at first but my guess is he started moving away from the Word of G~d as his foundation and began to rely on the "atta boys" he started receiving. From there the enemy saw an easy target. King Saul had the same story. We know how that ended. 
One of these days his "angels" aka spirit guides aka demons are going to require more out of him then he expects.
I agree. I went to Benny Hinn's church in Orlando a few times in the early days too. Lots of good things were happening!! It's amazing to see how far astray he's gotten and how quickly it happened.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 6:44:37 PM
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1love1God1way
Posts: 2003
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Actually, they aren't elevating these experiences above the Scripture.
Actually, they are. From last nights "prophetic" speaker Paul Cain:
quote:
There is no need to check what I'm saying with scripture....wait til we all get to heaven and then you will see I'm right.
Thanks.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 6:46:16 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5392
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are getting their sweaters ready....
Status: online
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"There is no need to check what I'm saying with scripture....wait til we all get to heaven and then you will see I'm right."
And people sit there nodding and saying "amen".
Pathetic.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 7:10:37 PM
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Anisavta
Posts: 707
Joined: 1/20/2008
From: Northern CA
Status: offline
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quote:
I will gladly dispute someone's teachings, and I have done so several times on these forums. So I guess you aren't referring to me... I am not defending Todd Bently, I am defending the fact that at least one person was majorly rocked by the presence of God at the meeting, evidenced by the radical healing of her body.
My question is: just because the L~rd healed this lady does that mean she was majorly rocked by the presence of G~d or by the mass hysteria and emotion that was in the room?
I still have to question whether the Holy One graces us with mass emotion so that a man can be promoted. I don't see in these videos and interviews the glory going to Messiah. I hear the name Todd Bentley alot and visions and angels mentioned alot but the death and resurrection of Messiah...?
When ever I have been in the Presence of G~d there is always repentance and humbling involved. But watching the people at these meetings - I see lots of pushing down and self promotion and lots of emotion. My emotions have taken me down slippery slopes too many times to trust them.
I see the same mass emotion going on in an Oprah Winfrey giveaway show.
_____________________________
Life is uncertain - eat dessert first!
B'rachot,
Marsha
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/6/2008 9:28:25 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2518
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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Bored since the NHL Conference Finals doesn't start 'till Thursday. Watched a bit of this dog-and-pony show and theere was this worship pastor telling about how he almost hit a guy who had jumped out of a moving car in a suicide attempt.
He stopped, laid hands on the guy, and he was "healed," Still needs to take his pyschotropic drugs though.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 9:29:04 AM
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wintery
Posts: 1328
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Actually, they aren't elevating these experiences above the Scripture. That is assumption. Basically, if I'm reading your posts correctly, you either believe that subjective experiences don't happen at all, or that they are to be kept to one's self. Too bad Paul's conversion made it into Acts, eh?
Adam
How could you watch the 30-minute Patricia Cocking (oh, King, her real name is Cocking) video with Todd and Bob and not comprehend what I wrote, describing the video? Oh, you...didn't...watch it.
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 10:25:55 AM
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Soxfan
Posts: 1505
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Connecticut
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
HOW IN THE WORLD can this not bother people who claim to be Christians?
I think Spurgeon sums it up in my sig below.
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: Florida HealingOutpouring-here we go again - 5/7/2008 11:05:19 AM
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howling wind
Posts: 180
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Texas, y'all...
Status: offline
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quote:
Congratulations on comparing Todd Bently to a demonic world leader that instigated the single deadliest war in history......
I guess the analogy of "good coming from evil" was lost on you. Okay, maybe this is better: Todd Bentley is a false prophet teaching an unbiblical doctrine that borders on the occultic.
< Message edited by howling wind -- 5/7/2008 11:11:30 AM >
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