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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/10/2008 7:55:09 PM
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dwtramm
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Sorry.
His name is Mark Haville.
Just google his name, he has videos for sell concerning the signs and wonders movement, plus interviews giving his life story.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/10/2008 8:19:12 PM
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lw9
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Thanks dwtramm! I look forward to reading his testimony.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/10/2008 9:11:40 PM
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dwtramm
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lw9
Thanks dwtramm! I look forward to reading his testimony.
I have only found one short testimony from him online.
The way of the master radio interview was short, but pretty good.
Here is a short synopsis of what Mark Haville talked about:
He says that he believes what is going on there is mass hypnosis. One of the keys is to repeat a phrase over and over again in an excitable fashion. They played a clip of Todd Bentley screaming out, "receive revival anointing, receive revival anointing." over and over again as the crowd was going crazy.
He also talked about the music. Didn't say anything that I remember about any of the fast upbeat songs, but talked about using slow songs that don't worship but focus on the Holy Spirit, giving the people a sense that God was going to do something, raising the level of expectancy.
Having people stand behind others as catchers puts in their mind that they will fall when hands are laid on them.
He also talked about the lighting on stage being involved helping the mood and the manipulation. I missed some of this portion of it unfortunately, so I'm not exactly sure what was said.
anyway, those who are manipulated this way, he said at a certain point, he didn't even have to lay hands on them for them to fall, he could just blow and down they'd go. The one thing he said that was striking to me was, and I'm paraphrasing of course, "It didn't have to be done in the name of Jesus, you could have blown on someone in the name of Homer Simpson and down they'd go."
He admitted that not everyone who attended his meeting would be manipulated, partly because not every one who came, came expecting something to happen. Those expecting something to happen before they walked in the door were the ones that were the most easily deceived.
He said that some would have the feeling of being healed. If I remember right, he thought it was adrenaline flowing through them in the excitement of it all. They'd run around doing things they couldn't do before, but then when the service was over and the emotions died down, they were back to where they were, same problems, and in some cases, even worse.
That is about all I could remember of the interview on the radio program. Hopefully I got correct most of what He said.
One other thing he said before I close my post. Todd Friel, the host, asked him what led him to see the error of his ways and lead him to repentance. Mark Haville said just one word: Scripture. He said when he got into the word and truly studied it, he saw he was wrong and had to repent.
That is the key, we must point people who are being deceived to the truth found in God's Word.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/10/2008 9:25:46 PM
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csl7037
Posts: 2141
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dwtramm
One other thing he said before I close my post. Todd Friel, the host, asked him what led him to see the error of his ways and lead him to repentance. Mark Haville said just one word: Scripture. He said when he got into the word and truly studied it, he saw he was wrong and had to repent.
This is what makes me think that most of these guys mean well or at least start out that way and get confused and/or deceived themselves. I think very few really set out to deceive people.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/10/2008 9:34:50 PM
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4ChristisLove
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
If this isn't demon possesion, then I don't know what is
Did you listen to the music.
It should have been done on a zitar.
Eastern music with eastern cult moves.
Is this what they are calling revival?
I'm just now seeing this video and I am nauseous! She does look like she is possessed, sorry. Here eyes are dark, she looks pale, and she looks like she is in a trance, having no control over what she is doing. I have to say that music gave me a headache and is in no way worship music (glorifying to God) in anyway.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/10/2008 9:58:00 PM
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dwtramm
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quote:
ORIGINAL: csl7037
quote:
ORIGINAL: dwtramm
One other thing he said before I close my post. Todd Friel, the host, asked him what led him to see the error of his ways and lead him to repentance. Mark Haville said just one word: Scripture. He said when he got into the word and truly studied it, he saw he was wrong and had to repent.
This is what makes me think that most of these guys mean well or at least start out that way and get confused and/or deceived themselves. I think very few really set out to deceive people.
Mark Haville would fit in the above catagory you described. In the one written interview I found of him online he talked about wanting to see God move and he would imitate what Benny Hinn and other popular people within the signs and wonders movement were doing.
I have also experienced this personally through the Brownsville thing. I don't know how many people, myself included, after attending some type of event either at Brownsville, or their tour, Awake America, was going around praying for people, saying, "Fire, Fire, Fire!" Over and over again.
We even changed our music, doing nothing but Brownsville revival songs.
We didn't do it to deceive anyone, it was we were just hungry for a move of God. But without knowing it, we were manipulating experiences as well, and calling it revival, or a move of the Spirit.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/10/2008 10:20:05 PM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1723
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dwtramm
The way of the master radio interview was short, but pretty good.
Was it Monday's show or Tuesday's? I listened to most of Monday's podcast but didn't hear it. I really want to hear the interview but after listening to a weeks worth of podcasts, I really am not liking the host (another thread, I know).
< Message edited by stateofgrace -- 6/10/2008 10:26:20 PM >
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/10/2008 10:35:19 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 744
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 4ChristisLove
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
If this isn't demon possesion, then I don't know what is
Did you listen to the music.
It should have been done on a zitar.
Eastern music with eastern cult moves.
Is this what they are calling revival?
I'm just now seeing this video and I am nauseous! She does look like she is possessed, sorry. Here eyes are dark, she looks pale, and she looks like she is in a trance, having no control over what she is doing. I have to say that music gave me a headache and is in no way worship music (glorifying to God) in anyway.
the quality of that video doesn't allow for acurate skin color assessment. i've seen people dance like that just for fun. music that is NOT demonic can give headaches.
why do we NEED to call it ALL demonic?
if we chant demonic demonic demonic maybe we can convince everybody? the power of suggestion for a good cause?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/10/2008 10:51:57 PM
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dwtramm
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: 4ChristisLove
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
If this isn't demon possesion, then I don't know what is
Did you listen to the music.
It should have been done on a zitar.
Eastern music with eastern cult moves.
Is this what they are calling revival?
I'm just now seeing this video and I am nauseous! She does look like she is possessed, sorry. Here eyes are dark, she looks pale, and she looks like she is in a trance, having no control over what she is doing. I have to say that music gave me a headache and is in no way worship music (glorifying to God) in anyway.
the quality of that video doesn't allow for acurate skin color assessment. i've seen people dance like that just for fun. music that is NOT demonic can give headaches.
why do we NEED to call it ALL demonic?
if we chant demonic demonic demonic maybe we can convince everybody? the power of suggestion for a good cause?
For me personally, I wouldn't call it demonic - strange yes.
I do agree with the prayer of Soxfan though, that young woman definetly needs prayer.
I believe those people are deceived, so I do think that Satan is involved...but I wouldn't say that the woman in question was demon possessed. Demon deceived, absolutely.
For me the strangest part was her hand movements. She looked like at times pulling an invisible rope around, and at other times it looked like she was shooting a gun at the audience (the end).
It did remind me of rock concerts I've gone too in the past, or more specifically, I remember watching a documentary on Woodstock and I saw a similarity in the dances.
Someone posted a youtube video of things that have occurred in some revival meetings as well as New Age, Hindu, and other false religion events. I don't remember who posted it here, but I found it interesting and at the same time downright alarming that the reactions to some spirit upon them were very much alike what is going on in Todd Bentley's as well at other revival movements.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/10/2008 11:04:26 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 744
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and some of the similarities are valid concerns but it can go too far. it's not a new idea for example to say drums shouldn't be a part of church worship because witchcraft includes drums.
repetitive phrases (another example) can be used by a preacher that is pure due to style and as a method of emphasis. so while it is good to understand the dynamics that can influence such meetings it's important that some of these things don't now become a litmus test.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/10/2008 11:09:50 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2646
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From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
One of the keys is to repeat a phrase over and over again in an excitable fashion
The other day all they sang was the word "glory" for about five minutes in a very hypnotic manner.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 1:11:19 AM
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prophet
Posts: 708
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psychedelic bordering on altered state bordering on demonic invasion........
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 6:44:59 AM
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csl7037
Posts: 2141
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I also agree it's too easy to jump straight to "demonic". IMO, most of the silliness is human nature and to blame it directly on Satan gives him too much credit. I, personally, don't think he works as hard as we like to think - he doesn't have to, we screw most things up plenty well without demons needing to be involved. Case in point....
quote:
ORIGINAL: dwtramm
Mark Haville would fit in the above catagory you described. In the one written interview I found of him online he talked about wanting to see God move and he would imitate what Benny Hinn and other popular people within the signs and wonders movement were doing.
I have also experienced this personally through the Brownsville thing. I don't know how many people, myself included, after attending some type of event either at Brownsville, or their tour, Awake America, was going around praying for people, saying, "Fire, Fire, Fire!" Over and over again.
We even changed our music, doing nothing but Brownsville revival songs.
We didn't do it to deceive anyone, it was we were just hungry for a move of God. But without knowing it, we were manipulating experiences as well, and calling it revival, or a move of the Spirit.
I think this happens a lot. We see someone we think is "annointed" and everyone starts immitating. I have a friend who's really bad about this. He's recently gotten involved in "deliverance ministry" and his entire prayer vocabulary changes. I mean really! The use of "magic words" drives me absolutely nutso!! Like so much, it's not demonic, it's just stupid! Totally off topic here but it's how I view 90% of deliverance - you don't need someone saying magic words or to learn the magic words yourself; most of the time, you just need to stop it!!! People don't want to be responsible, want to look to someone else (looking to God is too much work and takes too much faith) and that's how these guys get all the attention with their ridiculous antics that they do.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 7:06:30 AM
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stateofgrace
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The difference between this and some of the previous "revivals" is that the eastern stuff that has come in or is much more obvious. It's things like Emma-O that IMO show that the demonic may be involved. I'm not necessarily saying demonic posession (I don't believe the bible makes a case for a true follower of Christ being posessed) but demonic influence in the situation, in addition to the flesh, which helps lead people astray.
< Message edited by stateofgrace -- 6/11/2008 7:12:30 AM >
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America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 7:55:46 AM
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Soxfan
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I must have missed something somewhere. I always thought things were either of God or NOT of God. That woman's dancing is NOT of God. So if it is not of God, and not demonic as some say, then what is it?
I thought you had only TWO choices.
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"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 8:38:10 AM
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stateofgrace
Posts: 1723
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
I must have missed something somewhere. I always thought things were either of God or NOT of God. That woman's dancing is NOT of God. So if it is not of God, and not demonic as some say, then what is it?
I thought you had only TWO choices.
I'd say that "the flesh" is the third choice. It's possible to be deluded that something is of God when it is us instead. Now, surely the flesh can be influenced by the demonic. But many of the situations I can think of have been the flesh.
For example, Jim and Tammy Baker's excesses - (gold bathroom fixtures, etc.) - the flesh. Maybe there was a demonic influence telling them that they "deserved" it.
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America Needs Revival. Will you commit to pray for it?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 8:45:24 AM
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bluestone
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creepy is the term that comes to mind. Weird, too.
creepy and weird are not necessarily demonic. Some people are just nuts.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 8:57:55 AM
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dwtramm
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stateofgrace
The difference between this and some of the previous "revivals" is that the eastern stuff that has come in or is much more obvious. It's things like Emma-O that IMO show that the demonic may be involved. I'm not necessarily saying demonic posession (I don't believe the bible makes a case for a true follower of Christ being posessed) but demonic influence in the situation, in addition to the flesh, which helps lead people astray.
I would agree with this.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 9:03:05 AM
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dwtramm
Posts: 404
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Soxfan
I must have missed something somewhere. I always thought things were either of God or NOT of God. That woman's dancing is NOT of God. So if it is not of God, and not demonic as some say, then what is it?
I thought you had only TWO choices.
I guess it would be how you define the term "demonic".
In my background, it always meant some type of demon possession.
If she is a believer, I don't believe she can be demon possessed.
However, I would agree with the fact that if she is under deception, then she would be under the influence, for lack of a better term, of the enemy.
I'm not sure what I would call it. Fleshly yes. Deceived yes. Influenced by demons, yes.
Maybe demonic would be a good term. I don't know. for me, I'd have to think about it before I would use the term.
But that's just me.
I do agree that it wasn't of God at all.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 9:59:00 AM
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bluegravel
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With regard to choices: Galatians 5:19-21
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkeness, orgies, and the like.
And v.22 goes on to describe the fruits of the Spirit. (NIV)
The Bible does not teach that there are only 2 choices with regards to the actions of human beings as can be seen in the above quote. Without a doubt, continued deliberate sinful actions on the part of an individual leaves room for influence by unclean spirits - the unclean actions no doubt attract the unclean spirits.
It really does not serve to label everything we may not agree with as 'demonic'. Many people struggle with the idea of Christians being influenced by the demonic and cannot believe that Chrisitians may indeed come under that type of influence. At one time Jesus said to Simon Peter,
"Get behind me Satan" - he was not addressing Peter, but rather the spirit behind the words spoken by Peter.
At all times we must remember that we are all human - not demonic - Jesus died for everyone of us - the worst case of such an influence in the life of an individual (I believe) that Jesus dealt with, was what we call the Gadarene demoniac. Jesus sent the demons in this man into a herd of swine. The individual immediately became 'right' in his mind and worshipped Jesus. Luke 8 : 22-39 We are not told how he came to be in that state.
The display of actual demonic oppression is evident in much of what is protrayed at Lakeland - however, many people there are expressing there sinful nature and not demonic oppression.
Error is still error whether on the 'side' of right or wrong - if we think we have the truth, then we must be careful to preserve the evidence in the body of truth which is the Bible.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 10:41:21 AM
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SirWintery
Posts: 2489
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From: nw alabama
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
Without a doubt, continued deliberate sinful actions on the part of an individual leaves room for influence by unclean spirits - the unclean actions no doubt attract the unclean spirits.
Yes. Coming into agreement with such an influence is making a place for it. Some Christians seeking a mystic experience mistakenly believe anything they can encounter is automatically of God--not smart. When I've read of even believing Christians going to fortune tellers or seances...surely we should be aware that there is a spiritual realm and there is danger there. We are not to play with such things but it would seem such as Bob Jones and Todd Bentley and those like them have no measure for deception when they speak of so many angels of varied names and purposes, seeing lights and other experiences.
But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils. Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's table, and of the table of devils. Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he? All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
(1 Corinthians 10:20-23)
quote:
ORIGINAL: sevenseas
Many people struggle with the idea of Christians being influenced by the demonic and cannot believe that Chrisitians may indeed come under that type of influence.
When you look at those that are making themselves of the spiritual lineage of William Branham, who saw himself as an Elijah, a forerunner of Christ's return and a herald of the Latter Rain, who displayed amazing abilities to know things (so can a psychic reader), who tried to get people to believe in an angel through which his healings were done (and who came to a sad end mangled in a car crash), when we see the name of Branham used by Bentley, it is stunning that so many Christians are accepting of the Lakeland Carnival with no concern whatsoever for the source. So Todd says "Jesus" sometimes? Can you drink a knock-off cola and thank the name brand?
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
(2 Corinthians 6:14-17)
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 11:08:21 AM
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Soxfan
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I humbly stand corrected and ask for forgiveness. I cannot assume that her performance is necessarily the result of demon possession.
I am, however, in agreement with others that she is deceived, as is Todd Bentley and anyone else that supports this.
_____________________________
"This would be the first step in apostasy; men first forget the true, and then adore the false.".......C.H. Spurgeon
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 11:19:54 AM
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bluegravel
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I am corrected every day in my attitudes - the important thing is to be teachable - I ask every day that God would keep me from deception. I want to know the truth.
Thanks! 
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 12:56:55 PM
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stephanos
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From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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There is a difference between being tricked or lead by Satan, and actually being possessed by his minions. What this girl is doing is still OF Satan. He may not be in this poor lady, but even if she does not realize it, hasatan (the adversary) is there.
Todd Bentley now...He may actually be possessed. Leaders of these type of movements tend to be the only ones actually possessed.
I do pray that the true spirits of this Lakeland Revival are revealed. And I pray those trapped in its ways and teachings realize that God is not there, and turn back to him. Even Bentley. Whether he is possessed or not, I do hope he turns back and finds God. How great of a testemony would he be if he repents of these actions and admits where they truly come from. Oh Lord may YOUR will be done in this!
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