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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 1:50:33 PM
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earthless
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From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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This post is for Todd Bentley supporters and all Charismatics. I have 25 questions for you and would like serious answers only. If you should choose to take up this challenge I have only one condition; that you don’t just pick and choose the questions you want to answer (much like many do with verses of Scripture) but if you want to answer one, I request that you take a stab at them all.
These questions will require the use of your Bible and some will only seek your opinion. Are you up to the task? If so, let’s begin:
1). If a modern-day prophet says one thing and the Bible says another (opposing/opposite) which do you follow?
2). Why if God spoke “long ago” through prophets, but now in the last days speaks to us through His Son (Hebrews 1:1) do we still chase after men like Todd Bentley?
3). If the temple veil was ripped in two (Matthew 27:51) and God is not to be found in any one particular place on earth (Acts 7:48), but is now available to any true believer anywhere, why must we go to a certain church, event or venue in order to “come get some?”
4). God sent prophets to the Jews up until the 400 years of silence preceding Jesus Christ, (whom to this day the Jews still reject). Why don’t those who know the standard of prophets best (the Jewish people) continue to “raise up” and chase after prophets like the Charismatics do continually? Why do the Jews continue to patiently wait for their Messiah (which they missed 2,000 years ago) while the Charismatics keep chasing after the next big prophet? What do the Jews understand about a true prophet of God that Charismatics seem to keep missing?
5). Why if the Church is instructed in 1 Corinthians 14:40 to conduct itself “properly and in an orderly manner” do Charismatics refuse to accept this and instead we see the antics, shenanigans, and circus-like atmosphere in these self-proclaimed movements of God?
6). When Charismatics use the “my God is the same yesterday, today and forever” argument in the context that they commonly use it, why do they then no longer stone false prophets to death?
7). Why do Charismatics keep proclaiming the coming of a great revival in these last days when this is in direct opposition to the revealed Word of God which says that a great falling away will occur in the last days (2 Thessalonians 2:3)? Where does it say that the return of Christ is preceded by a great healing revival?
8). Pharisees and Sadducees tested Jesus asking Him to show them a sign (Matthew 16:1, Luke 11:16, John 2:18, John 6:30). Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing?
9). Why do those seeking a sign in Mark 8:11-12 cause Jesus to “sigh deeply in His Spirit”?
10). Why are those seeking signs and wonders (Matthew 12:38-39, Matthew 16:4, Luke 11:29) referred to by Jesus as evil, wicked, and adulterous?
11). Was Jesus saying the need to see signs and wonders was a good thing in John 4:48?
12). Was Paul implying the need to see signs was a good thing in 1 Corinthians 1:22?
13). Why do Charismatics always use Peter’s sermon in Acts chapter 2 (quoting Joel) to justify the tongues and prophecies they perform while excluding the other events like the sun turning dark and the moon turning to blood (v. 20)?
14). If it is God’s will that we should be healthy and wealthy, why did Paul suffer so much (2 Corinthians 11:23-27, 12:7-10)?
15). Isn’t seeking to be healthy, wealthy, and comfortable in this life a direct contradiction to God’s way of testing the faith of a believer and producing endurance in the life of a believer (James 1:2-4)?
16). Jesus addressed the fact that we are not greater than He, and since He suffered, we (true Christians) should expect the same (John 15:20, Matthew 10:24-25). Why do Charismatics ignore this and cling to the false notion that any suffering is of the Devil?
17). Why do the only two prophets directly referred to in Scripture in the last days (Revelation 11) perform no healings? Instead they do exactly the opposite of what all the “prophets” of today do; the very things most Charismatics would say is from the Devil. Why is that?
18). Why does the Bible repeatedly identify the existence of and warn us about false prophets (Matthew 7:15, 24:11, 24:24, Mark 13:22, Luke 6:26, Acts 13:6, 2 Peter 2:1-3, 1 John 4:1, etc.)?
19). In the end many false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders to mislead many (Matthew 24:24, Mark 13:22). Why do most Charismatics refuse to accept this, and if they do accept it, they never accept that this could be referring to their favorite prophet?
20). Is there any “sign and wonder” that you can point to that is false/counterfeit from Satan? Or do all “signs and wonders” come from God only?
21). Can Satan and his servants appear as “good” or do they always come to us as easily identifiable “bad” spirits (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)?
22). Is the great and visible sign performed in Revelation 13:13 a good thing from God or a counterfeit from Satan?
23). Can Satan and those in accord with his activity perform signs and wonders and exhibit power (Exodus 7:11-12, 2 Thessalonians 2:9)?
24). What is the more common theme of the Bible regarding the prophets with accompanying signs and wonders?
A). The presence of signs and wonders are proof of them being true prophets of God.
B). That false prophets will mislead many and they will use signs and wonders.
==========
SOURCE: Defending Contending blog..
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 2:40:51 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 621
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
This post is for Todd Bentley supporters and all Charismatics. I have 25 questions for you and would like serious answers only. If you should choose to take up this challenge I have only one condition; that you don’t just pick and choose the questions you want to answer (much like many do with verses of Scripture) but if you want to answer one, I request that you take a stab at them all.
These questions will require the use of your Bible and some will only seek your opinion. Are you up to the task? If so, let’s begin:
if there are TB "supporters" here i think they left long ago.
as for the long list of questions, those things are discussed on other threads all of the time. it's doubtful that people will feel obligated to answer your questions on your terms.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 2:43:26 PM
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stephanos
Posts: 808
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in KC MO
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Earthless...
A...You seem to have too much time on your hands.
B...Thank the Lord that you have too much time on your hands!!!
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 2:59:48 PM
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bluegravel
Posts: 50
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quote:
as for the long list of questions, those things are discussed on other threads all of the time.
Isn't it convenient, then, to have them all in one place? 
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 3:01:13 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5494
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
as for the long list of questions, those things are discussed on other threads all of the time. it's doubtful that people will feel obligated to answer your questions on your terms.
Free-will is a wonderful thing, is it not? Also, people who support such things and yet avoid such basic questions are only being dishonest to themselves, to God, and to others..
se la vie...
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 3:03:36 PM
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dwtramm
Posts: 401
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Earthless,
What if you are considered a Pentecostal/Charismatic, and don't support Todd Bentley, and don't believe in chasing after signs and wonders, prophets, going somewhere to "come get some", etc...
It would kind of be pointless wouldn't in answering these questions.
I mean someone like that wouldn't give the type of answers you are looking for.
You want people who support TB and modern day prophets, and last day revival type stuff to answer the question... Am I correct?
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 3:11:45 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 621
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Free-will is a wonderful thing, is it not? Also, people who support such things and yet avoid such basic questions are only being dishonest to themselves, to God, and to others..
se la vie...
because they don't answer you specifically? it could be that some don't answer the questions because they don't feel obligated to you.
it's also quite possible to have a WRONG opinion without being dishonest. unconvinced would likely be more accurate a great deal of the time.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 3:18:52 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5565
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Stephanos
Earthless...
A...You seem to have too much time on your hands.
B...Thank the Lord that you have too much time on your hands!!!
Experience proves that if you find someone with too much time
on their hands, you won't be able to get them to do anything.
The old addage holds true:
If you want something done, ask someone who doesn't have the time.
Those are the ones who "make" time.
Those who have loads of time because they are lazy, etc.
don't have time to do anything. They look for others to do it for them
and are critical of those who do get things done.
Okay, that's for another thread, and it's demonic in nature. lol.
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 6/11/2008 3:31:23 PM >
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 3:34:39 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5494
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dwtramm
Earthless,
What if you are considered a Pentecostal/Charismatic, and don't support Todd Bentley, and don't believe in chasing after signs and wonders, prophets, going somewhere to "come get some", etc...
It would kind of be pointless wouldn't in answering these questions.
I mean someone like that wouldn't give the type of answers you are looking for.
You want people who support TB and modern day prophets, and last day revival type stuff to answer the question... Am I correct?
Correct, they are questions for supporters of Todd Bentley and the like. Do know I was a Pentecostal pastor for over 10 years.... this is not a Pentecostal issue.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 3:35:08 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 11
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
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Why, oh why, on earth has there been so much time and webspace devoted to this nutcase false teacher?!?!
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 3:35:54 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5494
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Free-will is a wonderful thing, is it not? Also, people who support such things and yet avoid such basic questions are only being dishonest to themselves, to God, and to others..
se la vie...
because they don't answer you specifically? it could be that some don't answer the questions because they don't feel obligated to you.
it's also quite possible to have a WRONG opinion without being dishonest. unconvinced would likely be more accurate a great deal of the time.
Why are you so bothered that some questions were asked? I can't force anyone to answer anything, people do as they please. I never said otherwise nor said that people must answer to me.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 3:36:58 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5494
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Why, oh why, on earth has there been so much time and webspace devoted to this nutcase false teacher?!?!
Because countless thousands upon thousands of people have bought into it and are being deceived by it as I type this and as you read my typed words..
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 3:41:27 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 11
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Why, oh why, on earth has there been so much time and webspace devoted to this nutcase false teacher?!?!
Because countless thousands upon thousands of people have bought into it and are being deceived by it as I type this and as you read my typed words..
Okay...thanks! Carry on....
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 4:15:46 PM
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laura...
Posts: 3383
Joined: 3/1/2005
From: NE Ohio
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A very interesting website
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This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 4:28:12 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5565
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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I'm not in that group, but I like taking tests.
I'm not Pentecostal, but I am. lol.
quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
This post is for Todd Bentley supporters and all Charismatics. I have 25 questions for you and would like serious answers only. If you should choose to take up this challenge I have only one condition; that you don’t just pick and choose the questions you want to answer (much like many do with verses of Scripture) but if you want to answer one, I request that you take a stab at them all.
These questions will require the use of your Bible and some will only seek your opinion. Are you up to the task? If so, let’s begin:
1). If a modern-day prophet says one thing and the Bible says another (opposing/opposite) which do you follow?
Follow what the Bible says at all times
2). Why if God spoke “long ago” through prophets, but now in the last days speaks to us through His Son (Hebrews 1:1) do we still chase after men like Todd Bentley?
We haven't learned the truths of the Bible.
3). If the temple veil was ripped in two (Matthew 27:51) and God is not to be found in any one particular place on earth (Acts 7:48), but is now available to any true believer anywhere, why must we go to a certain church, event or venue in order to “come get some?”
LUST
4). God sent prophets to the Jews up until the 400 years of silence preceding Jesus Christ, (whom to this day the Jews still reject). Why don’t those who know the standard of prophets best (the Jewish people) continue to “raise up” and chase after prophets like the Charismatics do continually? Why do the Jews continue to patiently wait for their Messiah (which they missed 2,000 years ago) while the Charismatics keep chasing after the next big prophet? What do the Jews understand about a true prophet of God that Charismatics seem to keep missing?
Ignorance
5). Why if the Church is instructed in 1 Corinthians 14:40 to conduct itself “properly and in an orderly manner” do Charismatics refuse to accept this and instead we see the antics, shenanigans, and circus-like atmosphere in these self-proclaimed movements of God?
Birds of a feather
6). When Charismatics use the “my God is the same yesterday, today and forever” argument in the context that they commonly use it, why do they then no longer stone false prophets to death?
Selective Reading in order to manipulate others
7). Why do Charismatics keep proclaiming the coming of a great revival in these last days when this is in direct opposition to the revealed Word of God which says that a great falling away will occur in the last days (2 Thessalonians 2:3)? Where does it say that the return of Christ is preceded by a great healing revival?
seminary {from the word for 'seed'} teaching --- not the WORD
8). Pharisees and Sadducees tested Jesus asking Him to show them a sign (Matthew 16:1, Luke 11:16, John 2:18, John 6:30). Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing?
wicked = twisters of Scripture; adulterous = idolatry (wrong faith)
9). Why do those seeking a sign in Mark 8:11-12 cause Jesus to “sigh deeply in His Spirit”?
There is one sign, no more to come from God
10). Why are those seeking signs and wonders (Matthew 12:38-39, Matthew 16:4, Luke 11:29) referred to by Jesus as evil, wicked, and adulterous?
See #8
11). Was Jesus saying the need to see signs and wonders was a good thing in John 4:48?
I didn't read it that way; Struck me with a bit of sarcasm or rebuke
12). Was Paul implying the need to see signs was a good thing in 1 Corinthians 1:22?
Nope. Jews want signs; Greeks want gnosis (tree of knowledge).
13). Why do Charismatics always use Peter’s sermon in Acts chapter 2 (quoting Joel) to justify the tongues and prophecies they perform while excluding the other events like the sun turning dark and the moon turning to blood (v. 20)?
What they are taught; we have inherited lies
14). If it is God’s will that we should be healthy and wealthy, why did Paul suffer so much (2 Corinthians 11:23-27, 12:7-10)?
Not Biblical Prosperity
15). Isn’t seeking to be healthy, wealthy, and comfortable in this life a direct contradiction to God’s way of testing the faith of a believer and producing endurance in the life of a believer (James 1:2-4)?
Yes.
16). Jesus addressed the fact that we are not greater than He, and since He suffered, we (true Christians) should expect the same (John 15:20, Matthew 10:24-25). Why do Charismatics ignore this and cling to the false notion that any suffering is of the Devil?
Sign says: Check brains at door.
17). Why do the only two prophets directly referred to in Scripture in the last days (Revelation 11) perform no healings? Instead they do exactly the opposite of what all the “prophets” of today do; the very things most Charismatics would say is from the Devil. Why is that?
The only Real Healing is Salvation ----- they declare the "message."
18). Why does the Bible repeatedly identify the existence of and warn us about false prophets (Matthew 7:15, 24:11, 24:24, Mark 13:22, Luke 6:26, Acts 13:6, 2 Peter 2:1-3, 1 John 4:1, etc.)?
They are perpetual.
19). In the end many false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders to mislead many (Matthew 24:24, Mark 13:22). Why do most Charismatics refuse to accept this, and if they do accept it, they never accept that this could be referring to their favorite prophet?
Misguided and Pride
20). Is there any “sign and wonder” that you can point to that is false/counterfeit from Satan? Or do all “signs and wonders” come from God only?
Not enough room to list.
21). Can Satan and his servants appear as “good” or do they always come to us as easily identifiable “bad” spirits (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)?
They are subtle.
22). Is the great and visible sign performed in Revelation 13:13 a good thing from God or a counterfeit from Satan?
counterfiet from Satan.
23). Can Satan and those in accord with his activity perform signs and wonders and exhibit power (Exodus 7:11-12, 2 Thessalonians 2:9)?
Yep.
24). What is the more common theme of the Bible regarding the prophets with accompanying signs and wonders?
They follow the Word preached by real prophets.
A). The presence of signs and wonders are proof of them being true prophets of God.
Nope.
B). That false prophets will mislead many and they will use signs and wonders.
Yep.
==========
SOURCE: Defending Contending blog..
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 6/11/2008 4:35:09 PM >
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 4:32:45 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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(Not that this is real important, but if you want something to do...)
about Todd's tattoos...
Okay, I read somewhere about the subliminal face in the Jesus tattoo's beard. It still surprised me though, when I saw a face of some type in the shin warrior tattoo.
Here's the pic on Todd's MySpace.(must be logged in) (his page url is myspace.com/tdbentley)
Suggestion: Zoom out if you can or maybe shrink it in MS Paint to about 25%. For me I can only see it when the picture is smaller. The top hair locks are eyebrows and the bottom two hairlocks on each side make some eyes. Am I just Rohrshacking here or does anyone else see it?
(I didn't say it looks human though!)
I haven't seen this in anyone else's article; please tell me if you have.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 4:36:32 PM
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OLEEguacamole
Posts: 621
Status: offline
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quote:
about Todd's tattoos...
this is food for rumor.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 4:38:53 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5494
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
(Not that this is real important, but if you want something to do...)
about Todd's tattoos...
Okay, I read somewhere about the subliminal face in the Jesus tattoo's beard. It still surprised me though, when I saw a face of some type in the shin warrior tattoo.
Here's the pic on Todd's MySpace.(must be logged in) (his page url is myspace.com/tdbentley)
Suggestion: Zoom out if you can or maybe shrink it in MS Paint to about 25%. For me I can only see it when the picture is smaller. The top hair locks are eyebrows and the bottom two hairlocks on each side make some eyes. Am I just Rohrshacking here or does anyone else see it?
(I didn't say it looks human though!)
I haven't seen this in anyone else's article; please tell me if you have.
We had an entire perspective piece on this a few pages back. I want to say around 10 days ago or so..
It went into a lot of detail about his tattoos, the occult, etc..
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 4:40:30 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5494
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
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Another YouTube piece.. this one about Todd and a case of the blahs....
HERE
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 4:46:13 PM
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dwtramm
Posts: 401
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: dwtramm
Earthless,
What if you are considered a Pentecostal/Charismatic, and don't support Todd Bentley, and don't believe in chasing after signs and wonders, prophets, going somewhere to "come get some", etc...
It would kind of be pointless wouldn't in answering these questions.
I mean someone like that wouldn't give the type of answers you are looking for.
You want people who support TB and modern day prophets, and last day revival type stuff to answer the question... Am I correct?
Correct, they are questions for supporters of Todd Bentley and the like. Do know I was a Pentecostal pastor for over 10 years.... this is not a Pentecostal issue.
Thanks, I just needed some clarification.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 4:50:00 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole
quote:
about Todd's tattoos...
this is food for rumor.
What would the rumor be, Mrs., uh.., OLEEguacamole? I'm someone that's said not to argue the tattoos, that the tattoos are a distraction, although since then I've heard him promote himself proudly as not looking the part, so maybe they are an issue in some way.
Nope, just honest curiousity here. Of course if someone like a tattoo artist recognized it and it had some significance, I'd live with that too.
< Message edited by wintery -- 6/11/2008 4:56:59 PM >
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 4:51:35 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
(Not that this is real important, but if you want something to do...)
about Todd's tattoos...
Okay, I read somewhere about the subliminal face in the Jesus tattoo's beard. It still surprised me though, when I saw a face of some type in the shin warrior tattoo.
Here's the pic on Todd's MySpace.(must be logged in) (his page url is myspace.com/tdbentley)
Suggestion: Zoom out if you can or maybe shrink it in MS Paint to about 25%. For me I can only see it when the picture is smaller. The top hair locks are eyebrows and the bottom two hairlocks on each side make some eyes. Am I just Rohrshacking here or does anyone else see it?
(I didn't say it looks human though!)
I haven't seen this in anyone else's article; please tell me if you have.
We had an entire perspective piece on this a few pages back. I want to say around 10 days ago or so..
It went into a lot of detail about his tattoos, the occult, etc..
I remember, but I didn't see (or remember) anything on the shin warrior being a subliminal face.
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 4:54:53 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5494
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons get mugged and shot at...
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
I remember, but I didn't see (or remember) anything on the shin warrior being a subliminal face.
Found it HERE
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: :: Lakeland Revival - Todd Bentley - 6/11/2008 5:05:36 PM
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sirwintery
Posts: 2479
Joined: 2/1/2007
From: nw alabama
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
quote:
ORIGINAL: wintery
I remember, but I didn't see (or remember) anything on the shin warrior being a subliminal face.
Found it HERE
Like I said, it's not real important, but I don't buy the "Medusa" concept from those guys because the warrior has an Adam's apple and is male, and the hair is hair and not snakes. I think that blog is stretching it, and so rather than _start_a_rumor_ as has been suggested, I simply asked if anyone else saw a face of some kind as the whole tattoo being one of those double-image things. I see the chest as being a muzzle with the neck a nose that tips at the breast, as in a lion or possibly a dragon. I'm sure it will give tattoo people endless pleasure that I've wasted more than five minutes on it.
Now I ask forgiveness for this useless distraction.
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