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cutting into their profits?

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ORIGINAL: bluestone

I would like to know what others in that ilk such as Hinn think about Lake-land..is it cutting into their profits?

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ORIGINAL: bluestone

Hinn probably got a message not to go when he was hanging out at Kuhlman's permanent residence.

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ORIGINAL: Ms.Jonz

What video shows that he doesn't or can't read the bible?

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ORIGINAL: Ms.Jonz

What video shows that he doesn't or can't read the bible?

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"When Todd Bentley finally spoke (I believe it was the 2nd day), the atmosphere in the room was like "Finally! The guy we have been waiting for!" And you could feel the room get excited in anticipation. He started out really energetic. There wasn't any prayer beforehand. He was sweating within like 3 minutes. Not that there is anything wrong with sweat, but you could see the perspiration on his brow from the back of the room. What was weird, was that he said he was going to preach on a psalm. So we all got out our bibles. But every time he went to try to read the verse, he would begin to laugh, and stagger, and make weird noises. This made me EXTREMELY uncomfortable. It seemed as though he was mocking the scripture, by laughing at it when he began to read it. Everyone admired him for this, though, saying he was so "drunk in the Spirit" that he could not read his bible! He would calm down, but as soon as he went over to the pulpit where his bible was, he would immediately become so "drunk" that he could not read nor preach, but just would stagger around laughing and snorting for a few minutes."

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ORIGINAL: ChristopherJ

Here are my thoughts on your post, earthless... Please note that these are coming from a Foursquare believer - that is, a charismatic/pentecostal believer - but not as a 'Todd Bentley follower'.

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ORIGINAL: earthless

This post is for Todd Bentley supporters and all Charismatics. I have 25 questions for you and would like serious answers only. If you should choose to take up this challenge I have only one condition; that you don’t just pick and choose the questions you want to answer (much like many do with verses of Scripture) but if you want to answer one, I request that you take a stab at them all.

These questions will require the use of your Bible and some will only seek your opinion. Are you up to the task? If so, let’s begin:

1). If a modern-day prophet says one thing and the Bible says another (opposing/opposite) which do you follow?
Sola Scripture - Scripture alone is our rule of standard for faith. The job of the gift of prophecy is to testify about Jesus, the Word of God. (The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy). All prophecy MUST line up with the written Word of God in order for it to be valid.

2). Why if God spoke “long ago” through prophets, but now in the last days speaks to us through His Son (Hebrews 1:1) do we still chase after men like Todd Bentley?
The same thing has been happening for thousands of years. Look at the stories in the Book of Acts whenever the apostles performed mighty miracles, people often wanted to worship them or glorify them for what took place... but fortunately, the apostles always gave the glory to the Lord. And look at the world we're living in today as well - the "American Idol" generation... people like to idolize other people... (I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that it's a fact of life that people do that).

3). If the temple veil was ripped in two (Matthew 27:51) and God is not to be found in any one particular place on earth (Acts 7:48), but is now available to any true believer anywhere, why must we go to a certain church, event or venue in order to “come get some?”
You are right that all believers who are hungry for more of God in their life can encounter that in the secret place in their prayer closets. But the Scriptures also talk about the presence of Jesus being manifested wherever believers gather together in His name (Matthew 18:19-20), and that God inhabits the praises of His people (Psalm 22:3). I believe there is a manifested presence of God that Christians can experience in corporate gatherings... look at what happened when the glory of God filled the temple in Second Chronicles 7 after Solomon's dedication prayer... and the prophet Haggai did say that the glory of this latter house would be greater than the former.
p.s. Having said all of that, I don't believe you have to go to Lakeland, Florida to 'get some'.

4). God sent prophets to the Jews up until the 400 years of silence preceding Jesus Christ, (whom to this day the Jews still reject). Why don’t those who know the standard of prophets best (the Jewish people) continue to “raise up” and chase after prophets like the Charismatics do continually? Why do the Jews continue to patiently wait for their Messiah (which they missed 2,000 years ago) while the Charismatics keep chasing after the next big prophet? What do the Jews understand about a true prophet of God that Charismatics seem to keep missing?
Prophets are gifts from God (see Ephesians 4:11), who - along with pastors, teachers, evangelists and apostles - help equip of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ (Eph. 4:12-13). I don't think that we as Christians need to chase after prophets, although they do have a valuable role to play. Unfortunately, many people get confused about the New Testament definition of a prophet. In the OT, the prophet was called a 'seer', and people went to them for wisdom and direction for their lives. However, in the NT, we all have the Holy Spirit, so the prophet rather gives encouragement, comfort and exhortation to people (1 Cor. 14:3 = definition of NT prophecy).

5). Why if the Church is instructed in 1 Corinthians 14:40 to conduct itself “properly and in an orderly manner” do Charismatics refuse to accept this and instead we see the antics, shenanigans, and circus-like atmosphere in these self-proclaimed movements of God?
Anti-charismatics always like to quote that Scripture ' Let all things be done decently and in order', and I agree that there shoudl be order in services... but to those who like to quote this Scripture and use it out of context against the gifts, let me remind you of the first five words in that verse: "Let all things be done." In the same passage, Paul says over and over again, "Don't forbid to speak in tongues, don't despise prophecy, etc."

6). When Charismatics use the “my God is the same yesterday, today and forever” argument in the context that they commonly use it, why do they then no longer stone false prophets to death?
To say that Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever does not mean that we don't recognize that there are differences between the Old and New Covenant, because obviously there are. GOD is the same - He hasn't changed, HOWEVER - Jesus made it abundantly clear that there were some changes being made to the law of God. And again, so many Christians don't understand the law of God - the three different aspects: The moral law (rules for living that still apply to Christians today, i.e. do not lie); the ceremonial law (those rules that governed religious Israel that were types and shadows that were fulfilled in Christ), and then the civil law (the rules that governed the political body of Israel and contained rules like the above one about stoning prophets to death and - because we are not in a nation that enforces biblical law - therefore does not have relevance to us today).

7). Why do Charismatics keep proclaiming the coming of a great revival in these last days when this is in direct opposition to the revealed Word of God which says that a great falling away will occur in the last days (2 Thessalonians 2:3)? Where does it say that the return of Christ is preceded by a great healing revival?
It's interesting that those who espouse the belief in a great falling away base it merely on that one Scripture in Thessalonians. This escapist, premillennial dispensational eschatology viewpoint is so foreign to the orthodox historical church, and has only emerged in recent days. If you take the time to read through the parables Jesus taught about the kingdom, you will see a predominant and recurring them of a victorious kingdom, that is ever-increasing and expanding. So yes, I hold to a postmillennial viewpoint that says that right before Jesus returns, there will be a great expansion of the Kingdom of God, and - bold belief though it is - I really believe that what Jesus said about His building His church and the gates of hell not prevailing against it will really work! I dont' believe that Jesus is coming back for a wimpy, beat-up, just barely hanging on church that's just waiting to be raptured off the planet, but that he is coming back for a bride without spot or wrinkle - a glorious church!

8). Pharisees and Sadducees tested Jesus asking Him to show them a sign (Matthew 16:1, Luke 11:16, John 2:18, John 6:30). Do you think this is a good thing or a bad thing?
I don't believe that Christians are to seek after signs and wonders. Rather, signs are to follow those who believe (see Jesus' great commission in Mark 16:15-20 that bears this out). Why signs and wonders? A sign is something that is to point people to Someone - to God. And a wonder is to cause people to wonder, and give glory to God. Again, study the life of Christ, and over and over again, you will see people getting healed, and as a result of that, people glorify God.

9). Why do those seeking a sign in Mark 8:11-12 cause Jesus to “sigh deeply in His Spirit”?
See the answer to number 8.

10). Why are those seeking signs and wonders (Matthew 12:38-39, Matthew 16:4, Luke 11:29) referred to by Jesus as evil, wicked, and adulterous?
See the answer to number 8.

11). Was Jesus saying the need to see signs and wonders was a good thing in John 4:48?
No.

12). Was Paul implying the need to see signs was a good thing in 1 Corinthians 1:22?
He wasn't saying it was either good or bad, rather, the context of this Scripture shows that Paul was contrasting the Jews (signs) and Greeks (wisdom) with the Kingdom of God, which was preaching Christ crucified, which I believe a true Christian church must do!

13). Why do Charismatics always use Peter’s sermon in Acts chapter 2 (quoting Joel) to justify the tongues and prophecies they perform while excluding the other events like the sun turning dark and the moon turning to blood (v. 20)?
Again, here is where your literal, futuristic, dispensational interpretation of this Scripture does it injustice. The prophetic language here (the sun being darkened, the moon being turned to blood, and the stars falling from the sky) speaks of what happened at the Cross - when God the father (the Sun) turned His face from Christ (darkened), when Jesus (the moon) was turned to blood - shed His blood, and the stars (a common figure in the OT prophets speaking of government and leadership) represented the disciples falling away from Christ after the Cross. But again I realize this interpretation is open to debate.

14). If it is God’s will that we should be healthy and wealthy, why did Paul suffer so much (2 Corinthians 11:23-27, 12:7-10)?
As a charismatic, I believe in the gift of healing, and I pray for the sick frequently. Sometimes they are healed, sometimes they do not. I don't believe that God has promised that all believers will be healthy and wealthy, but nor do I believe the blasphemous, damnable doctrine that says our loving Heavenly Father will punish his beloved children with sickness.

15). Isn’t seeking to be healthy, wealthy, and comfortable in this life a direct contradiction to God’s way of testing the faith of a believer and producing endurance in the life of a believer (James 1:2-4)?
If you think that God tests your faith by making you sick, I would like to suggest to you that you have a somwhat twisted view of the loving Father's heart of God that was revealed in Jesus...

16). Jesus addressed the fact that we are not greater than He, and since He suffered, we (true Christians) should expect the same (John 15:20, Matthew 10:24-25). Why do Charismatics ignore this and cling to the false notion that any suffering is of the Devil?
We don't. We acknowledge that suffering can come from different sources - that yes, satan is sometimes the cause of suffering (see the book of Job), but sometimes suffering is just part of living in a sin-cursed earth. And there is also a difference between suffering / being persecuted for righteousness sake, and being sick, depressed and miserable.

17). Why do the only two prophets directly referred to in Scripture in the last days (Revelation 11) perform no healings? Instead they do exactly the opposite of what all the “prophets” of today do; the very things most Charismatics would say is from the Devil. Why is that?
Unfortunately, the answer to this question (involving a hermeneutic of the book of Revelation that is so radically different than your futuristic, literal, premillennial interpretation) is far too long for this space, but I would definitely consider dialoguing about this at another time...

18). Why does the Bible repeatedly identify the existence of and warn us about false prophets (Matthew 7:15, 24:11, 24:24, Mark 13:22, Luke 6:26, Acts 13:6, 2 Peter 2:1-3, 1 John 4:1, etc.)?
Because there are false prophets. But note - if there is a false and a counterfeit, then obviously there is a real and genuine as well. This is why we need discernment, so we know which prophets are of God, and which are not.

19). In the end many false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders to mislead many (Matthew 24:24, Mark 13:22). Why do most Charismatics refuse to accept this, and if they do accept it, they never accept that this could be referring to their favorite prophet?
I have no problem with that Scripture. And again, please note that I am not a follower of Todd Bentley or any other prophet, though I do believe in the gift of prophecy in the church today.

20). Is there any “sign and wonder” that you can point to that is false/counterfeit from Satan? Or do all “signs and wonders” come from God only?
I do believe that Satan can perform counterfeit signs and wonders, yes.

21). Can Satan and his servants appear as “good” or do they always come to us as easily identifiable “bad” spirits (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)?
I don't think the devil is trapsing around in a red suit with a pitchfork. Of course he works by deception. This is why the Bible must always be our standard to hold up all prophecy to!

22). Is the great and visible sign performed in Revelation 13:13 a good thing from God or a counterfeit from Satan?
Again, too long of an answer to respond to in this space... I love the book of Revelation though!

23). Can Satan and those in accord with his activity perform signs and wonders and exhibit power (Exodus 7:11-12, 2 Thessalonians 2:9)?
Of course he can.

24). What is the more common theme of the Bible regarding the prophets with accompanying signs and wonders?

A). The presence of signs and wonders are proof of them being true prophets of God.
Mark 16:20: "And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen."
B). That false prophets will mislead many and they will use signs and wonders.

Looking forward to dialoguing more with you about this!

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Accountability

I am accountable to God, and to those who He has sent to me to speak wisdom into my life and ministry - (I submit to an accountability team that comprises my pastor and spiritual overseers from varying backgrounds and denominations). They have not discounted the things that the Lord has shown me just because they don't fit the mold of tradition or the old wineskins that some are carrying. The dreams, visions, and experiences that I've brought forth have been solely for ministering to the Body of Christ. My experiences have made me even hungrier and more zealous for God. That hunger transfers into a hunger to see others experience what I know to be true. They've been substantiated through the Word of God in principle, and accepted and given the go-ahead by my accountability team.
I also have an entire department of our ministry devoted to intercession, to coordinating and administering prayer covering over my life and family, over the ministry, and to those to whom we minister. We have an email list called The Firewall that comprises hundreds of intercessors from around the world who keep us covered in prayer.

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If you cannot understand the supernatural things of God, or even if you disagree or choose to discount or discredit me in any way, then I urge you to look at the fruit.

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ORIGINAL: bluestone

I would like to know who is on the accountability team.

Teletubbies?

Power rangers?

Larry, Moe, & Curley?

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If a person is of the mind-set that everything spiritual that happens or manifests in our lives has to be found in Scripture to be divine and of God, then that standard or belief would have to be applied to every area of one's life

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ORIGINAL: dwtramm

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ORIGINAL: Ms.Jonz

What video shows that he doesn't or can't read the bible?

I found her quote. Here is the portion I was talking about.

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"When Todd Bentley finally spoke (I believe it was the 2nd day), the atmosphere in the room was like "Finally! The guy we have been waiting for!" And you could feel the room get excited in anticipation. He started out really energetic. There wasn't any prayer beforehand. He was sweating within like 3 minutes. Not that there is anything wrong with sweat, but you could see the perspiration on his brow from the back of the room. What was weird, was that he said he was going to preach on a psalm. So we all got out our bibles. But every time he went to try to read the verse, he would begin to laugh, and stagger, and make weird noises. This made me EXTREMELY uncomfortable. It seemed as though he was mocking the scripture, by laughing at it when he began to read it. Everyone admired him for this, though, saying he was so "drunk in the Spirit" that he could not read his bible! He would calm down, but as soon as he went over to the pulpit where his bible was, he would immediately become so "drunk" that he could not read nor preach, but just would stagger around laughing and snorting for a few minutes."

I hope this helps some.

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ORIGINAL: earthless

ChristopherJ,

I should have a gap of free time tomorrow (Saturday) afternoon - I plan on sitting down and responding back to your responses then. Again, thank you for your patience and grace.

-earthless

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yes we are to watch out for counterfeit and false but why is it that a lot of us are continually focusing on looking for the counterfeit and false and not looking for the True?

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ORIGINAL: rgod
But, I do believe that healings are taking place there.

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I'm not saying that we need to believe everything that we see or hear - obviously we need to evaluate what we see - to see if it comes from God.

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ORIGINAL: rgod

The thing that disturbs me most about Lakeland, Brownsville, and other similar events though is that there are a lot of people who are very quick to pick them apart and to find any way to denounce it, even if they haven't seen it for themselves.

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ORIGINAL: rgod

The thing that disturbs me most about Lakeland, Brownsville, and other similar events though is that there are a lot of people who are very quick to pick them apart and to find any way to denounce it, even if they haven't seen it for themselves.

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ORIGINAL: rgod
There is almost a derision for anything that is not the "norm" - and I can't help but wonder if Jesus were alive today and performing miracles if many Christians would denounce him because they'd point to the clothes he wears, who he associates with, and the miracles he performs as evidence that he is fake.

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and I can't help but wonder if Jesus were alive today and performing miracles if many Christians would denounce him because they'd point to the clothes he wears, who he associates with

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rgod: But I just think that it is important that we aren't so critical about non-essential things that we miss God.

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And if these revivals or healing meetings or whatever the terms are - are glorifying God - if they are lifting up the name of Jesus - if people are being healed - if people are getting saved - if lives are changed - then I think we need to take the time to consider there might be some validity to it ...

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... even if there might be some things taking place that we don't agree with.