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Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/2/2008 12:06:02 PM
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drussell52
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From: Michigan
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I hope you can shed some practical light on Jeremiah 31:33 paralleled with Hebrews 10:6. God writing the law on the believer's heart..
I long for him to do that! I heard the difference between one who chooses to live in sin and a believer, is the one living in sin just flat out doesn't care to change, or see the need to change their mode of life..The believer may sin (rebell) but will sooner or later respond to God's correction. Would this be a practical result of God writing his law/covenant/promise on the believer's heart? Sometimes I can desire to be pretty rebellious in my attitude and it feels like that's the eraser trying to damage what God has written there. Look forward to hearing your input and thanks.
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/2/2008 4:01:36 PM
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Bluethread
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These are the only places that I know of in Scripture were the term new covenant(new testiment) is used, unless you count the title page you might have in your copy between Malachi and Matthew. That is why I see the "new covenant" as Adonai writing Ha Torah(The Word) on our hearts. I also believe He does this by practical application of the Shema(Duet 6)and convocations at the appointed times(as designated in the Scriptures). That is reading, teaching, discussing and practicing the Scriptures.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
figmentPez: "You(bluethread) don't believe in Christian doctrine, and don't follow the same Jesus Christ that the Apostles taught."
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/2/2008 5:10:39 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2321
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drussell52
I hope you can shed some practical light on Jeremiah 31:33 paralleled with Hebrews 10:6. God writing the law on the believer's heart..
I long for him to do that! I heard the difference between one who chooses to live in sin and a believer, is the one living in sin just flat out doesn't care to change, or see the need to change their mode of life..The believer may sin (rebell) but will sooner or later respond to God's correction. Would this be a practical result of God writing his law/covenant/promise on the believer's heart? Sometimes I can desire to be pretty rebellious in my attitude and it feels like that's the eraser trying to damage what God has written there. Look forward to hearing your input and thanks.
God writing His law in our hearts does not mean that we will no longer sin nor does it mean that we won't have the tendency to rebel. See, for example, Romans 7 and Paul's struggle with sin.
And I do not believe it means that He would write the OT Law in our hearts but that He places His HS within us.
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/3/2008 10:51:11 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3137
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quote:
I hope you can shed some practical light on Jeremiah 31:33 paralleled with Hebrews 10:6. God writing the law on the believer's heart.. These are some of my very most favorite verses in the Bible, drussell52! They are two of many vital prooftexts for the concept of entire sanctification in the Wesleyan/Holiness doctrinal tradition. I know exactly the moment and place that God put His laws in my mind and wrote them on my heart. He became my God and I became His child, when He forgave my wickedness and forgot my sins. I praise the Lord for His sanctifying grace!
quote:
God writing His law in our hearts does not mean that we will no longer sin nor does it mean that we won't have the tendency to rebel. See, for example, Romans 7 and Paul's struggle with sin. This concept does indeed mean we will no longer have to sin because our tendency to rebel has been removed. The Holy Spirit may cleanse the Believer of her/his carnal nature, by grace through faith, so that one does not have to live in Romans chapter 7 but may live in Romans chapter 8. I thank God that He helps me live in chapter 8 nowadays!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/4/2008 12:39:04 AM
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GraceBro
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The Old and New Covenant deal with two totally different areas. The Old Covenant deals with matters of the flesh and the New Covenant deals with matters of the Spirit. The Old Covenant, the Law, is designed to lead a person to Christ by showing them their sinfulness and spiritual death. The New Covenant is Christ leading a believer from within through the power of the Holy Spirit because our sins no longer are an issue between man and God. Both passages in Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 10 tell us about the fact that the sin issue is over and that God will now lead a believer from within through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Man was originally created with the life of God indwelling Him.
"...the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being." Genesis 2:7
When man fell God removed His life from mankind and we died spiritually.
"...but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." Genesis 2:17
Before God could restore His life back to mankind He had to take away the sin that caused that life to be lost in the first place.
"The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" John 1:29
Now that our sins have been taken away, God could offer His life, as a free gift, back to anyone who would receive it.
"For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!" Romans 5:10
The good news of the Gospel is that "It is Finished!" We have been reconciled to God. Since our sins no longer separate a believer from God, He is free to live His life in and through us like He did back in the Garden. Only this time we can't lose that life when we sin because of the eternal consequences of the cross. That is promise we see made in Jeremiah 31 and later reiterated in Hebrews 10. The Old Covenant (The Law) shows us our need for Christ. The New Covenant (grace) is Christ leading you from within. Two totally separate covenants, but one great truth. God remembers our sins no more so He can live His life in and through us. Christ doesn't help us uphold the law because a law is not for a believer. Rather, when we live a life of dependency on Him He will not lead us to sin. There is a great difference.
Grace and Peace
_____________________________
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GraceRest/
www.livinggodministries.net
http://360.yahoo.com/idog96
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/4/2008 1:10:55 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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The Torah of G-d has been written on the hearts of G-d's people from before Abraham and Moses. Those who serve Him from the heart, not just with the head, are those who have the new covenant upon their hearts; it is walking in faith.
Walking in faith is not just having faith; it is walking in faith. It is walking the Torah -- doing, not just saying "I believe." "I believe" without works is dead, and the dead are just that -- dead. The dead can do no works of faith, because they have not been called to life.
However, regarding Jeremiah, the Scripture says, quote:
"But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, " I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
Note with whom the new covenant will be made. Israel. It says nothing here about anyone else -- just Israel. This is prophetic of Israel and Israel alone -- the House of Israel in conjunction with the House of Judah, and they will be one.
Hebrews 10:16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM"....
Again, this is about Israel. The day will come, as prophesied by the fathers, included Zechariah, when the whole of those who remain and are of Israel will turn to our L-rd and be included in the covenant of which we who know the L-rd already are tasting.
So how can we be included in the new covenant? There is one way and one way alone: it is through the one and only Son of the Living G-d, Y'shua the Messiah, Jesus, the Holy One of Israel, the Creator, the Prince of Peace, the Advocate, the Lord of lords. If you know Him, if you walk the way He teaches (for He is alive), then you have the new covenant written upon your heart.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? He knows He's about to abolish it!
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look a lot harder for the worm holes.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/5/2008 6:49:15 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 589
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
And I do not believe it means that He would write the OT Law in our hearts but that He places His HS within us.
Yeshua(Jesus) is Ha Torah(Logos, The Word) become flesh that dwelt among us. Ergo, Ha Torah is Ruach Ha Chedosh(HS). That of course is the true Torah and not the written representation thereof which is equivalent to darkened glass.
quote:
GraceBro:
The Old and New Covenant deal with two totally different areas. The Old Covenant deals with matters of the flesh and the New Covenant deals with matters of the Spirit.
Sorry for the long list, I really don't like it when people do that. However, this neoplatonism(doctrine of Plato) that teaches that the physical is always bad and the spiritual is always good is wearing a little thin. Adonai not only cares about our spirits now, but has always wanted us to have a contrite heart and still cares about what we do physically.
Galatians 2:20 "new covenant"
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
De 4:29 "old covenant"
But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.
De 6:5 "old covenant"
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.
De 8:2 "old covenant"
Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the desert these forty years, to humble you and to test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands.
Isa 63:11 "old covenant"
Then his people recalled the days of old, the days of Moses and his people-- where is he who brought them through the sea, with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he who set his Holy Spirit among them
Jer 17:5 "old covenant"
This is what the Lord says: "Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who depends on flesh for his strength and whose heart turns away from the Lord
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
figmentPez: "You(bluethread) don't believe in Christian doctrine, and don't follow the same Jesus Christ that the Apostles taught."
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/5/2008 7:17:45 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 589
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quote:
GraceBro:
Christ doesn't help us uphold the law because a law is not for a believer. Rather, when we live a life of dependency on Him He will not lead us to sin. There is a great difference.
Ro 7:7
What shall we say, then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! Indeed I would not have known what sin was except through the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "Do not covet."
How is it that Yeshua(Jesus) leads us away from sin. I submit that Ha Torah(The Word) has lead us toward Himself, and away from sin, in many ways throughout the ages and still uses all means at His disposal to bring us to Himself. I.e., He revealed, reveals, and will reveal Himself when He told, tells, and will tell us who He was, is, and shall be, and what He expected, expects, and will expect from us by the Written Word, the Word become flesh, the Word of The Spirit, the Word of Nature, the Word of Prophecy, etc.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
figmentPez: "You(bluethread) don't believe in Christian doctrine, and don't follow the same Jesus Christ that the Apostles taught."
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/5/2008 7:55:04 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2321
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From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
And I do not believe it means that He would write the OT Law in our hearts but that He places His HS within us.
Yeshua(Jesus) is Ha Torah(Logos, The Word) become flesh that dwelt among us. Ergo, Ha Torah is Ruach Ha Chedosh(HS). That of course is the true Torah and not the written representation thereof which is equivalent to darkened glass.
I'm sorry. Did you say something?
Look. I speak English and you speak English. There is absolutely no reason to clutter up your message with Hebrew terms.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 5/6/2008 6:27:08 AM >
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 8:35:12 AM
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drmark
Posts: 3137
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Larry, would you respond to my comments in post #4 instead of berating others' writing style?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 11:57:24 AM
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drussell52
Posts: 26
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Larry, would you respond to my comments in post #4 instead of berating others' writing style?
Hi all, thanks for the input. Want to make a few btrief comments from what I read as I don't have time to send each of you a PM, sorry. Anyhow, name is David and want to thank the poster who encouraged live in Romans 8 instead of (implied) getting stuck in Romans 7. I like positive! Larry, since the Holy Spirit is apart of the Godhead then He residing in us would be the same as the LORD writing his law on our heart, perhaps Jeremiah is stating it poetically? Don't divide the God we love and serve.. Um the poster who said this and that are for Israel, how about Romans 9 where the believers are being grafted in? There is neither Jew nor Greek, bond or free, American or Canadian, in Christ Jesus or Messiah Yeshua. I inserted the American Canadian because I live near the border of both nations.. Like I said these are observations not arguments, but thanks thanks thanks. And, yes, since most of us here appear to speak English let's stick with that language okay? Nice to show your efforts include other nations and perhaps you could land a gig as an international interpretor, hear it pays well.. Later folks.
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 1:11:07 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 2146
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Regarding writing words some are not used to using:
Perhaps some don't understand the effort it takes to do a mind-switch from the language used in one's place of worship to the language used on a forum where most people use different wording. When we come here from such a place, we put effort into writing as you might expect us, in order to be clear in what we write to you. It is not as though the transition is all that easy.
We don't call the Messiah "Jesus," for example, yet we want to write what is clear while not just throwing our own beliefs out the window. We end up trying to contrive ways of writing so that we trounce neither readers from other traditions nor our own traditions.
For myself, for example, I have decided that when I write "Messiah," you will know what I intend. Normally, I call Him Y'shua (at home, in most other places, at my place of worship, etc.), and rarely do I call Him Messiah, unless I am on a forum. We make such jumps in deference to people already. I simply do not care for the name Jesus, which I am sure you know was not the name the Angel declared He would have.
So please be patient with us, as we are with you, as we attempt to twist our thoughts and words to meet with your traditions. We all serve the same L-rd, and we are all in His family.
< Message edited by Covaan_Meshuga -- 5/6/2008 1:17:11 PM >
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? He knows He's about to abolish it!
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look a lot harder for the worm holes.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 1:22:52 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 2146
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drussell52
...since the Holy Spirit is apart of the Godhead then He residing in us would be the same as the LORD writing his law on our heart, perhaps Jeremiah is stating it poetically? No, it is the clear word of G-d, naming the nation specifically.
quote:
ORIGINAL: drussell52
Don't divide the God we love and serve... Who is dividing Him, Drussel? G-d is a G-d of divisions. The first things he did in Creation were divisions. He divided, He separated. Later, He separated Israel from the nations and commanded them to remain separated. He teaches holiness, and holiness is separation. G-d is the G-d of division as He separates us from the world and commands us to remain separate.
quote:
ORIGINAL: drussell52
Um the poster who said this and that are for Israel, how about Romans 9 where the believers are being grafted in? There is neither Jew nor Greek, bond or free, American or Canadian, in Christ Jesus or Messiah Yeshua. I inserted the American Canadian because I live near the border of both nations.. Like I said these are observations not arguments, but thanks thanks thanks. And, yes, since most of us here appear to speak English let's stick with that language okay? Nice to show your efforts include other nations and perhaps you could land a gig as an international interpretor, hear it pays well.. Later folks.
If you intended me, perhaps you didn't read my whole post, which said:
quote:
So how can we be included in the new covenant? There is one way and one way alone: it is through the one and only Son of the Living G-d, Y'shua the Messiah, Jesus, the Holy One of Israel, the Creator, the Prince of Peace, the Advocate, the Lord of lords. If you know Him, if you walk the way He teaches (for He is alive), then you have the new covenant written upon your heart.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? He knows He's about to abolish it!
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look a lot harder for the worm holes.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 1:47:57 PM
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drmark
Posts: 3137
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:
I simply do not care for the name Jesus, which I am sure you know was not the name the Angel declared He would have. While I agree totally with the sentiment of your post, Abiyah, it appears your personal preference is problematic. Matthew wrote in 1:21 that His name was to be "Iesous" because He will "sozo" His people from their sin. Did the angel speak in Greek to Joseph? Hebrew or Aramaic? How do we know the angel did not use some angelic language which Joseph heard in his own comprehension to be "Savior"? Let's not pretend to knowledge that we do not have from Scripture.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 4:57:47 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2321
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Larry, .... instead of berating others' writing style?
I did not berate anyone's writing style.
be·rate
: to scold or condemn vehemently and at length
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/berate
quote:
would you respond to my comments in post #4...?
Not really. I do not consider you a credible debater. When you attributed your views as having been confirmed by the HS, I pretty much wrote you off. I mean, how can I compete with the HS? When it comes to discussing something challenging, someone attributes their views to the HS directly.
Further, you are a "johnny-one-note." No matter what the subject is, you're going to work in your concept of sinless sanctification. Since I didn't notice the OP asking about a sinless sanctification interpretation of Romans 7, you tried to take it off topic. Sorry. No go.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 5/6/2008 5:18:45 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 5:08:30 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 589
Joined: 11/8/2007
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I use Hebrew where it is significant because it is a language where words and names have specific meanings. If I were to use English you might be just as confused. That is because we do not speak English but the language of the United States of America which is babble(a conglomeration of several languages) and is based on usage which changes over time. Now, I understand that not all of us have the gift of tongues. Therefore, I do speak in the USA language most of the time. That said, we often misunderstand the Scripture because we view it through the prospective of our prefered language and culture. So, where it is important I use Hebrew for clarification and because the more one hears a language the more comfortable one becomes with it. I also try to translate the first time I use a term in every post. If we must all speak the common tongue at all times, those of you who speak "text" (HS, KJV, etc) might need to do the same.
Regarding the name of the Meshiach(Messiah), "Iesous" is a self-defined term in Greek. There is no other term like it, nor does the term exist anywhere in Greek literature. The only reason we accept it as meaning "he saves" is because the existant manuscripts translate it as such. However, we know what the word spelled with the Hebrew letters Yud,Shin, and Hay means. This is a common Hebrew name which litterally means salvation is of Yah(short for the name given to Moshe on mount Sinai).
To get back to the topic do you understand my point that, I believe, Ha Torah(The Word) that will be written on our hearts is indeed Adonai Himself. The idea of The Ruach Ha Chedosh(Holy Spirit) filling us cpmes close to this idea. However, I believe, only Yeshua(Jesus) was in this state for any significant period of time. Therefore, it appears to me that this prophesy is yet to be realized.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
figmentPez: "You(bluethread) don't believe in Christian doctrine, and don't follow the same Jesus Christ that the Apostles taught."
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 5:16:43 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 589
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Larry, .... instead of berating others' writing style?
I did not berate anyone's writing style.
be·rate
: to scold or condemn vehemently and at length
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/berate
quote:
would you respond to my comments in post #4...?
Not really. I do not consider you a credible debater. When you attributed your views as having been confirmed by the HS, I pretty much wrote you off. I mean, how can I compete with the HS? When it comes to discussing something challenging, someone attributes their views to the HS directly.
If drmark is attributing his views to Ruach Ha Chedosh(The Holy Spirit) then it appears he is playing the prophet. I hope he is aware of the risks he is taking in doing so.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
figmentPez: "You(bluethread) don't believe in Christian doctrine, and don't follow the same Jesus Christ that the Apostles taught."
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 5:26:18 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2321
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
I use Hebrew where it is significant because it is a language where words and names have specific meanings. If I were to use English you might be just as confused. That is because we do not speak English but the language of the United States of America which is babble(a conglomeration of several languages) and is based on usage which changes over time.
I understand you meant well. But I don't see that all of those Hebrew terms contributed a single bit to clarifying your comment. YOU might know they have greater import, but I have to wade through them in order to read your English message.
If you can say it without Hebrew, why include it?
quote:
To get back to the topic do you understand my point that, I believe, Ha Torah(The Word) that will be written on our hearts is indeed Adonai Himself. The idea of The Ruach Ha Chedosh(Holy Spirit) filling us cpmes close to this idea. However, I believe, only Yeshua(Jesus) was in this state for any significant period of time. Therefore, it appears to me that this prophesy is yet to be realized.
The author of Hebrews told his readers that it would happen soon. The old was ready to vanish (or was fading at the very time it was written). That does not mean "2,000 years in the future."
God ordained the priesthood, the tabernacle and the Temple. The Jews (according to the flesh) have not had those things for close to 2,000 years. So they have been unable to fulfill the terms of that covenant loner than they were actually able to do so.
Circumcision was an integral part of the Old Covenant. Gentiles have been grafted into the commonwealth of Israel yet have been exempt from circumcision. How is that possible if the Old Covenant is still in force?
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 5:28:28 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2321
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
If drmark is attributing his views to Ruach Ha Chedosh(The Holy Spirit) then it appears he is playing the prophet. I hope he is aware of the risks he is taking in doing so.
I don't know that he is doing so here. I don't want to accuse him. But when someone has a past history of doing that, we can not consider that reasonably and objectively AND when they think they are right because somehow God told them, I will be selective in whether or not I will answer them.
< Message edited by GrahamCracker -- 5/6/2008 5:37:28 PM >
_____________________________
Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 7:36:46 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 589
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GrahamCracker
The author of Hebrews told his readers that it would happen soon. The old was ready to vanish (or was fading at the very time it was written). That does not mean "2,000 years in the future."
God ordained the priesthood, the tabernacle and the Temple. The Jews (according to the flesh) have not had those things for close to 2,000 years. So they have been unable to fulfill the terms of that covenant loner than they were actually able to do so.
Circumcision was an integral part of the Old Covenant. Gentiles have been grafted into the commonwealth of Israel yet have been exempt from circumcision. How is that possible if the Old Covenant is still in force?
It is very possible that the writer of Hebrews had Daniel 11 and 12 in mind when he wrote of the levitical priesthood passing away. I have never argued against the temple and therefore the sacrifices passing away. And I have always maintained that they have always served as a reminder of the covenant and were not the covenant itself.
As it is written: Ho 6:6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.
And again: Ps 40:6 Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but my ears you have pierced; burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require. 7 Then I said, "Here I am, I have come-- it is written about me in the scroll. 8 I desire to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart."
The former is quoted by Yeshua(Jesus) Himself when He points out that the purpose of the sacrifices was to remind us that Adonai is merciful.
Many see the later as a prophetic quotation of Yeshua(Jesus). Here he differentiates between the sacrificial ordinances and the rest of the commandments. I do not believe Paul is taking about those other commandments here. I hope you would agree that, given the fact that we are just talking about verse 6 of Hebrews chapter 10, it would be inappropriate to discuss them here.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
figmentPez: "You(bluethread) don't believe in Christian doctrine, and don't follow the same Jesus Christ that the Apostles taught."
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/6/2008 9:20:24 PM
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GrahamCracker
Posts: 2321
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
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quote:
It is very possible that the writer of Hebrews had Daniel 11 and 12 in mind when he wrote of the levitical priesthood passing away. I have never argued against the temple and therefore the sacrifices passing away. And I have always maintained that they have always served as a reminder of the covenant and were not the covenant itself.
1) Your divisions of the Old Covenant are artificial. The author of Hebrews does not speak of part 1 (priesthood and sacrifices) of the Old being done away and a part 2 (other sections of the law) remaining in place.
2) Hebrews speaks of a contrast between the first covenant and the second covenant. (Hebrews 8:7)
quote:
The former is quoted by Yeshua(Jesus) Himself when He points out that the purpose of the sacrifices was to remind us that Adonai is merciful.
So? It is the covenant changes, not the nature of God.
quote:
Many see the later as a prophetic quotation of Yeshua(Jesus). Here he differentiates between the sacrificial ordinances and the rest of the commandments.
I don't believe Paul wrote Hebrews but that's another discussion. Anyway, just because he quotes from the OT, there is no reason to divide the Old Cov. into 2 (or more) sections.
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Larry
Why is it when we talk to God we're said to be praying -
but when God talks to us, we're schizophrenic.----Lily Tomlin
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RE: Jeremiah 31:33/Hebrews 10:6 - 5/7/2008 2:10:34 AM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 2146
Joined: 6/8/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Abiyah
I simply do not care for the name Jesus, which I am sure you know was not the name the Angel declared He would have.
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
While I agree totally with the sentiment of your post, Abiyah, it appears your personal preference is problematic. Matthew wrote in 1:21 that His name was to be "Iesous" because He will "sozo" His people from their sin. Did the angel speak in Greek to Joseph? Hebrew or Aramaic? How do we know the angel did not use some angelic language which Joseph heard in his own comprehension to be "Savior"? Let's not pretend to knowledge that we do not have from Scripture.
No, it is not at all problematic, Mark. To take the words of the angel to such lengths as you want to, in order to take me to task, is very interesting.
You tell me I am pretending? I would have expected better of someone I consider a friend, especially since I am not the pretentious type. If you want to tell me I have erred, go for it, but to tell me I am pretentious is to call me a liar. Please don't do that, my friend.
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Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? He knows He's about to abolish it!
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look a lot harder for the worm holes.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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