YOU can't handle the truth! =) (Full Version)

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BugLady -> YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 12:41:07 AM)

Isn't keeping the truth from someone the same as lying to them?

When is it okay to keep someone in the dark about matters involving them?



deermousie -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 2:05:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

Isn't keeping the truth from someone the same as lying to them?


Yes, if it is meant to deceive. Sins of omission instead of commission.

quote:

When is it okay to keep someone in the dark about matters involving them?


When it's gossip. If you aren't part of the problem or part of the solution, then it's best to be mum. If someone A is talking about (gossiping) someone B, tell A, "Let's go talk to B together."

There are probably other and better answers for this, and I look forward to hearing them.

Oh, and you tell B if they are in danger.



Cloak -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 7:45:36 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

Isn't keeping the truth from someone the same as lying to them?

When is it okay to keep someone in the dark about matters involving them?



No always!

You have to make sure they are WISE and want to sincerely change!



BugLady -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 9:14:02 AM)

quote:

You have to make sure they are WISE and want to sincerely change!


Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't referring to matters where a person is in the wrong. I'm thinking about a situation where the person kept in the dark has been wronged. The people who know what happened are keeping the truth from them.



LivingParadox -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 10:32:05 AM)

Yes it's wrong.

Often it's harms the person and allow situations to snowball into much worse situations. Also based on the title of this thread -- You can't handle the truth -- don't you think that's kind of tells it all that personal motivation or just idea that you are superior to "handling" the situation than the other person. If the other person has been wronged allow them the opportunity for closure and in some cases to offer grace.



BugLady -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 10:33:45 AM)

quote:

If the other person has been wronged allow them the opportunity for closure and in some cases to offer grace.


I'm actually "the other person" who was wronged and being left in the dark. Been waiting for resolution for a long time. And you are right about it snowballing. If someone had the, how shall I put it? Guts maybe... to be honest with me, this would be behind "us" now.



LivingParadox -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 10:44:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

quote:

If the other person has been wronged allow them the opportunity for closure and in some cases to offer grace.


I'm actually "the other person" who was wronged and being left in the dark. Been waiting for closure for a long time.


I'm not sure I'm following... the person who was wronged is left out of the dark or the person who did the wrong is left in the dark?

If someone was wronged yes they need to be told.

If someone wronged another and is missing information I suppose it would be in the details.

Please clarify.



BugLady -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 10:48:29 AM)

I can't be specific because it involves a crime. I was the one who was wronged. I know there are people who know what happened. Yet, no one has come to me directly to explain what they know about the situation. It affects me. It seems they should tell me what they know, and to not tell me seems like lying by omission.



LivingParadox -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 10:52:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

I can't be specific because it involves a crime. I was the one who was wronged. I know there are people who know what happened. Yet, no one has come to me directly to explain what they know about the situation. It affects me. It seems they should tell me what they know, and to not tell me seems like lying by omission.



Yes, they should be forth-coming. Usually personal motivations, shame and reputation often keep people from doing the right thing but make no mistake -- IT IS SIN.



BugLady -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 11:00:41 AM)

So, since I obviously can't compel any of these people to do the right thing and tell me the truth, there's really nothing I can do... except pray the Lord work in their lives, I suppose.



samson366 -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 11:26:41 AM)

yes keeping the truth is the same as lying...it's just another form of deception.



BugLady -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 11:33:25 AM)

quote:

Usually personal motivations, shame and reputation often keep people from doing the right thing


...I want to do the right thing. I've tried to reach out to the people who have kept the truth from me, but I was basically ignored. My signature is a plea to them for their help. I simply want closure. Being left in the dark has made life more difficult for me. I fear getting blindsided by the truth in an ugly way by vindictive people.



agapetos -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 2:15:00 PM)

quote:

I simply want closure. Being left in the dark has made life more difficult for me.
Sometimes we have to make our our closures.



pbaribeault -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 2:57:35 PM)

I don't think keeping the truth from someone is the same as lying.

I know a lot of things that I don't tell everyone... not even people it concerns. Some things are confidential, other things are just unwise cans of worms. Either way, just because I know something doesn't mean I'm ethically obligated to open my mouth.

There are many situations where providing any and all information is "the right thing to do" for various reasons, but there are also some situations where nobody needs to be told anything.

You haven't provided enough information about your situation for me to say whether those people have an obligation to disclose their knowledge to you... But if you think that they should, you might want to think through the foundation of that idea... Why do you think they should tell you these things (other than that you think it will make you feel better)?



agapetos -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 3:13:16 PM)

quote:

My signature is a plea to them for their help.
I missed that, but I wonder if there is a legal reason why they can't tell you the things you are wanting to hear?



BugLady -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 3:46:56 PM)

quote:

But if you think that they should, you might want to think through the foundation of that idea... Why do you think they should tell you these things (other than that you think it will make you feel better)?


Nope. Not to make me feel better. To restore relationships. To move forward.


quote:

I wonder if there is a legal reason why they can't tell you the things you are wanting to hear?


That would make sense if I were a suspect, but I was the victim. Generally when it is discovered a person has been the victim of a crime, they are notified and kept in the loop.



LivingParadox -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 4:19:35 PM)

quote:

quote:

I wonder if there is a legal reason why they can't tell you the things you are wanting to hear?


That would make sense if I were a suspect, but I was the victim. Generally when it is discovered a person has been the victim of a crime, they are notified and kept in the loop.


If this is the case, I would think there may be some kind of corruption or intimidation going on which is even more reason the truth needs to come out because corruption lives in secrecy.



BugLady -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 7:27:54 PM)

quote:

If this is the case, I would think there may be some kind of corruption or intimidation going on which is even more reason the truth needs to come out because corruption lives in secrecy.


Well, there was a point when there certainly was imtimidation going on. And I had reason to believe it may have been a woman. But I couldn't prove who it was. If, and that's a big if, there is any corruption I believe it's isolated to a few bad apples and the men at the top have the integrity to deal with them appropriately.



LivingParadox -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 7:41:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

quote:

If this is the case, I would think there may be some kind of corruption or intimidation going on which is even more reason the truth needs to come out because corruption lives in secrecy.


Well, there was a point when there certainly was imtimidation going on. But I couldn't prove who it was. If, and that's a big if, there is any corruption I believe it's isolated to a few bad apples and the men at the top have the integrity to deal with them appropriately.


Let's hope this turns out to be the case as I would hate to think "the system" would be so broken. Integrity is so important in "top" places and we would have tyrantry if the checks and balances were not in place.
Reminds me of a quote -- " The only thing for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing ".



BugLady -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 7:48:34 PM)

Ah, one of my favorite quotes often attributed to Edmund Burke.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing"

The men I refer to in my signature are all men of integrity.



BugLady -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 8:46:20 PM)

quote:

When it's gossip. If you aren't part of the problem or part of the solution, then it's best to be mum. If someone A is talking about (gossiping) someone B, tell A, "Let's go talk to B together."


I agree with this, btw.

quote:

I know a lot of things that I don't tell everyone... not even people it concerns. Some things are confidential, other things are just unwise cans of worms. Either way, just because I know something doesn't mean I'm ethically obligated to open my mouth.


I agree with this too.

quote:

There are many situations where providing any and all information is "the right thing to do" for various reasons, but there are also some situations where nobody needs to be told anything.


I agree there are those situations where nobody needs to know anything. My situation is not one of those situations. I need to know.



Focusing -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 9:12:52 PM)

Hi BugLady,

I have seen this happen many times over the years. Very sad. Even people whose integrity seems rock solid have been involved. Even sadder. Personally, I think it comes down to an issue of pride.

I wonder, if they reveal X, Y and Z, to you or to whomever needs to know, if it would cause other things to become revealed, or raise questions about other issues? I've seen that happen as well. People do things that are "on the fence" (ethically) for a lack of a better way to word it, and if admitting something could cause questions to be raised as to their reputation, or other business dealings, etc., they might feel it's best to keep quiet.

Kind of like opening a Pandora's Box.

Not saying their actions are proper, just offering insight as to what I've seen over the years in situations such as this.

You know the old saying ... “Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.”



BugLady -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/3/2008 9:22:12 PM)

Thanks, Focusing. [:)]

quote:

I wonder, if they reveal X, Y and Z, to you or to whomever needs to know, if it would cause other things to become revealed, or raise questions about other issues?


This ^^ is very insightful, actually... and very helpful. Hmm... Pandora's box? Could be. That's probably the reason these men of integrity haven't reached out to me. They know what happened was wrong, but they may not be able to do anything to right it. And I get the distinct impression I wasn't the only one impacted by this. So it may also be a matter of being sensitive to the needs of others. In light of that thinking, it's much easier for me to accept what I've gone through as necessary to protect the privacy of others. If that's the case, all they had to do was tell me, though. I'm expendable in a sense.



LivingParadox -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/4/2008 4:09:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BugLady

Thanks, Focusing. [:)]

quote:

I wonder, if they reveal X, Y and Z, to you or to whomever needs to know, if it would cause other things to become revealed, or raise questions about other issues?


This ^^ is very insightful, actually... and very helpful. Hmm... Pandora's box? Could be. That's probably the reason these men of integrity haven't reached out to me. They know what happened was wrong, but they may not be able to do anything to right it. And I get the distinct impression I wasn't the only one impacted by this. So it may also be a matter of being sensitive to the needs of others. In light of that thinking, it's much easier for me to accept what I've gone through as necessary to protect the privacy of others. If that's the case, all they had to do was tell me, though. I'm expendable in a sense.



You are NOT expendable. Now if you decide if and when the truth is told to be gracious that is your choice.



buckifn -> RE: YOU can't handle the truth! =) (5/4/2008 4:23:51 PM)

quote:

If this is the case, I would think there may be some kind of corruption or intimidation going on which is even more reason the truth needs to come out because corruption lives in secrecy.


Often times if you are talking about criminal acts the truth doesn't come out until the actual trial, and even then some people never come forward with the truth.


If you are the victim of a crime you have the right to subpoena anyone you think is a witness to the truth. If they lie under oath then that will be dealt with by the court.

Has this crime been dealt with in court yet?



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