Rock n' roll? (Full Version)

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glimmerinthedark -> Rock n' roll? (5/5/2008 3:00:49 AM)

According to John Todd a former Illuminati/Occultist who became Christian, rock is evil. Even Christian Rock.

What do you guys think?



BibleL7 -> RE: Rock n' roll? (5/5/2008 3:25:24 AM)

Never heard of the guy as for rock being evil that is a question to be answered when we see the Lord. Does Rock n Roll have its origins from evil I dont think so. Many of the originators were believers. Is it glorifying to God not much of it. Is it secular without a doubt. Does it glorify sin much of it yes much no. Is it an expression of music for many generations yes. Should it be sung in the churches for worship I doubt it. Does it promote sin of pride and idolatry yes indeed. But it in itself being evil I dont think so, now the people involved in it being evil is another question. Remember somebody created the style of music and people made it popular. As to it being evil some songs are not promoting sin and are very good to speak feelings.



SinnerSaved -> RE: Rock n' roll? (5/5/2008 3:36:34 AM)

Melody is not evil or wrong. David played the harp to sooth Saul's troubled mind, and we are exorted by Paul to sing psalms hymns and spiritual songs to one another. There is nothing unbiblical then, about music per se.

However, if the lyrics of a song are essentially un-Christian, either through bad language (Eminem) or through the acts that they glorify (sex, violence etc), then that song is not for believers.

I personally love Christian music, but am not a great lover of Christian rock (maybe my age - 53 - has a bearing on this!). However, if the lyrics of Christian rock are in line with scripture, I see nothing wrong with it, especially if young Christians play it in favour of Emminem and the like.



SonInMe1 -> RE: Rock n' roll? (5/5/2008 4:04:15 AM)

Only humans can be evil.

Only their choices can be evil.



glimmerinthedark -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 5:53:05 AM)

Check this out:

[Link removed by moderator]



earthless -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 7:58:13 AM)

*Ned Flanders Alert*



iluvatar -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 8:42:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: glimmerinthedark

Check this out:

[Link removed by moderator]


[8|]

-Dan.



jn1010lf -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 9:20:02 AM)

Hello glimmerinthedark

Consider this. I once heard a country and western song in which the guy was, in his own words, do damn depressed that he got drunk and went to bed. Now most folks can accept the country and western form of music, even though not everyone likes it.

On the other hand, I heard a racous rock n roll song in which the lyric glorified Jesus Christ, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Now my question to you is. Which one of those songs would you like your family to listen to?



kernsfamily -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 10:15:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: glimmerinthedark

According to John Todd a former Illuminati/Occultist who became Christian, rock is evil. Even Christian Rock.

What do you guys think?


The whole "rock is evil" the "rock beat" is "of the devil"....all stems from when the genre was first formed, in the early 1950s/late 1940s.....

At it's very beginning, "rock & roll's" origins came primarily from "black music"....music for "colored people".....thus, when "Dick & Jane" in white suburbia heard the music, it was <GASP>.....and, thus, preachers all around twisted scripture, and took passages out of context to make "Dick & Jane's" parents feel "comforted" that they made the right decision in "banning" that "colored music" from their home. (Basically teaching "what their itching ears wanted to hear").....i really don't know of any "colored" pastors/ministers that got on the "rock beat is evil" agenda....not to the extent of others....

and, while it didn't take long for "rock & roll" to be a primarily "white" genre (except for a few here and there), still, the "roots" were there....and, the origins were the same....

Same thing happened with school segregation, and Mixed-Race marriages....preachers all over taught that "the world was going to end" once "Dick & Jane" went to the same school as those "other folks".....again, preaching what the congregation WANTED to hear.

So, this "rock" is evil....in ALL forms....it's just a relic of the past....and is a way to pander to what certain parents want to hear from the pulpit.....and, more than anything, reinforce the "correct" choices their parents made with regards to MUSIC PREFERENCE....
perhaps even more importantly, "mom and dad" PREFERRED Mitch Miller or Perry Como to Bo Diddley, Chuck Berry, Johnny Otis or Fats Domino....thus, the "rock is of the devil" industry was born....



doinkdom -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 11:14:48 AM)

I think the guy has a personal conviction that he needs to keep to himself.



davemiller7 -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 12:57:15 PM)

In the beginning............ hey those are familiar sounding words [;)]............... many of the early (late '40s and into the late '50s) rock 'n' rollers (Jerry Lee Lewis) and rhythm and blues singers (The Chantels and The Flamingos, I think) began in church choirs, as did some of the top 40 singing groups (The Four Lads).

Early rock was pretty innocent by today's standards, even though Elvis was condemned for his hip movements. There was no cursing or mention of drugs, belittling women, killing, suicide, or any of today's "cool" themes. There were some nonsense lyrics (Sh-Boom comes to mind) but they weren't evil. Some of the rhythms seemed a little "earthy" to some people, but in my opinion, weren't bad.

Compare what was "then" to the screeching, guitars, filthy lyrics, chanting of the same words over and over, and the bass line that is so loud that it gives you a stomach ache. I'll take the old stuff (up to the 60s). You can have the new stuff. I think an awful lot of it is "evil."

-Dave



kernsfamily -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 12:57:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

I think the guy has a personal conviction that he needs to keep to himself.


BTW...the guy is dead....

According to the Behavioral Disorder Treatment Unit in South Carolina, John Todd, AKA Christopher Kollyns passed away on 11/10/2007. The cause of death was not given.

for the entire bizarre story, click here



doinkdom -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 1:18:05 PM)

South Carolina...of course [8|]

now I remember the media coverage

we're just so proud[:'(]



Qtman -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 1:37:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: davemiller7

In the beginning............ hey those are familiar sounding words [;)]............... many of the early (late '40s and into the late '50s) rock 'n' rollers (Jerry Lee Lewis) and rhythm and blues singers (The Chantels and The Flamingos, I think) began in church choirs, as did some of the top 40 singing groups (The Four Lads).

Early rock was pretty innocent by today's standards, even though Elvis was condemned for his hip movements. There was no cursing or mention of drugs, belittling women, killing, suicide, or any of today's "cool" themes. There were some nonsense lyrics (Sh-Boom comes to mind) but they weren't evil. Some of the rhythms seemed a little "earthy" to some people, but in my opinion, weren't bad.

Compare what was "then" to the screeching, guitars, filthy lyrics, chanting of the same words over and over, and the bass line that is so loud that it gives you a stomach ache. I'll take the old stuff (up to the 60s). You can have the new stuff. I think an awful lot of it is "evil."

-Dave


Like Lewis Gizzard my mother lived long enough that she had forgiven Elvis long before she died.[:D]



doinkdom -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 1:43:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: glimmerinthedark
Check this out:

[Link removed by moderator]


[sm=icon_smile_roll.gif] and ????



Miril -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 1:47:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: glimmerinthedark

Check this out:

[Link removed by moderator]


Interesting questions to the band would be "As Christians are you aware that the symbols used on your album covers are satanic?"

I had no clue the eternity sign was affiliated with satan. I should have noticed being part of a family where some are heavily into witchcraft, I have seen tarot cards many times.[:'(]

Journey's music was a big part of my teenage life. Sigh[:'(]



saraimay75 -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 1:59:12 PM)

I think not.



davemiller7 -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 2:18:38 PM)

My mom couldn't stand Elvis (among several others) when he first became popular. I sneaked in a copy of "I Want You, I Need You, I Love You" and played it quietly when I thought she wasn't listening. Well, one day I wasn't too careful and she overheard. "Who's that singing?" she asked. I replied "Elvis Presley." After that, she thought he wasn't TOO bad. Then, sometime in the late 70s, she remarked "what ever happened to all the good music from people like Elvis?" I guess he was forgiven by my mom too. [:)]

-Dave

quote:

ORIGINAL: Qtman

quote:

ORIGINAL: davemiller7

In the beginning............ hey those are familiar sounding words [;)]............... many of the early (late '40s and into the late '50s) rock 'n' rollers (Jerry Lee Lewis) and rhythm and blues singers (The Chantels and The Flamingos, I think) began in church choirs, as did some of the top 40 singing groups (The Four Lads).

Early rock was pretty innocent by today's standards, even though Elvis was condemned for his hip movements. There was no cursing or mention of drugs, belittling women, killing, suicide, or any of today's "cool" themes. There were some nonsense lyrics (Sh-Boom comes to mind) but they weren't evil. Some of the rhythms seemed a little "earthy" to some people, but in my opinion, weren't bad.

Compare what was "then" to the screeching, guitars, filthy lyrics, chanting of the same words over and over, and the bass line that is so loud that it gives you a stomach ache. I'll take the old stuff (up to the 60s). You can have the new stuff. I think an awful lot of it is "evil."

-Dave


Like Lewis Gizzard my mother lived long enough that she had forgiven Elvis long before she died.[:D]



kernsfamily -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 3:27:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miril

quote:

ORIGINAL: glimmerinthedark

Check this out:

http://www.av1611.org/crock/crockex2.html


Interesting questions to the band would be "As Christians are you aware that the symbols used on your album covers are satanic?"

I had no clue the eternity sign was affiliated with satan. I should have noticed being part of a family where some are heavily into witchcraft, I have seen tarot cards many times.[:'(]


perhaps he was "stretching" the truth.....and perhaps just "fibbing" regarding the "eternity/infinity" symbol.....those kinds of guys will say ANYTHING to their "intended audience", and anything they say will be believed....

I have heard other "rock is evil" types talk about WHY rock music is typically played loud...the "symbolism" of the instruments that are played, and on and on....and, in the end, it was just a bunch of "made up" stuff just to pacify an audience who already didn't care for that kind of music...so, they ate it up....and believed every word....

from wiki...

The precise origin of the infinity symbol ∞ is unclear. One possibility is suggested by the name it is sometimes called—the lemniscate, from the Latin lemniscus, meaning "ribbon."

A popular explanation is that the infinity symbol is derived from the shape of a Möbius strip. Again, one can imagine walking along its surface forever. However, this explanation is not plausible, since the symbol had been in use to represent infinity for over two hundred years before August Ferdinand Möbius and Johann Benedict Listing discovered the Möbius strip in 1858.

It is also possible that it is inspired by older religious/alchemical symbolism. For instance, it has been found in Tibetan rock carvings, and the ouroboros, or infinity snake, is often depicted in this shape.

John Wallis is usually credited with introducing ∞ as a symbol for infinity in 1655 in his De sectionibus conicis. One conjecture about why he chose this symbol is that he derived it from a Roman numeral for 1000 that was in turn derived from the Etruscan numeral for 1000, which looked somewhat like CIƆ and was sometimes used to mean "many." Another conjecture is that he derived it from the Greek letter ω (omega), the last letter in the Greek alphabet.[3]

Another possibility is that the symbol was chosen because it was easy to rotate an "8" character by 90° when typesetting was done by hand. The symbol is sometimes called a "lazy eight", evoking the image of an "8" lying on its side.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_sign#Infinity_symbol

absolutely NO mentions of satanic origins....imagine that....

maybe it's all a CONSIPRACY by the "illuminati"!!!!!



Kath -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 3:43:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom

I think the guy has a personal conviction that he needs to keep to himself.


So here I give you stars and then I found out the guy is dead.

*sigh*

Well, it's the thought that counts (both your thought and mine) :)



Kath -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 3:44:54 PM)

moving this from GFT to Morality/Ethics because anything that starts out with "is it a sin" or "Is it evil" goes in Morality/Ethics.



JimboFletch -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 3:47:06 PM)

quote:

...a former Illuminati...

Claiming to be a former Illuminati should be enough to set off your Aluminum Foil Hat Alert and ignore any further drivel the guy ever produced.



Qtman -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 3:53:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch

quote:

...a former Illuminati...

Claiming to be a former Illuminati should be enough to set off your Aluminum Foil Hat Alert and ignore any further drivel the guy ever produced.


That Jimbo belongs in the Snarky 101 thread.[:D] I love it.



doinkdom -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 3:54:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kath
quote:

ORIGINAL: doinkdom
I think the guy has a personal conviction that he needs to keep to himself.

So here I give you stars and then I found out the guy is dead.

*sigh*

Well, it's the thought that counts (both your thought and mine) :)


I actually shoulda known that, seeing as how he's in my state and all - I do remember the original media coverage, but that's about it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:

...a former Illuminati...

Claiming to be a former Illuminati should be enough to set off your Aluminum Foil Hat Alert and ignore any further drivel the guy ever produced.


[sm=purplelaugh.gif] that was the best part of that whole movie!



Doc65 -> RE: Rock n' roll? (6/4/2008 6:04:23 PM)

quote:

Claiming to be a former Illuminati should be enough to set off your Aluminum Foil Hat Alert and ignore any further drivel the guy ever produced.


Awww, and I thought I was just standing too close to the microwave!!! [sm=tonguehappy.gif]



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