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Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/8/2008 10:36:21 AM
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Ephesians4_32
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In your beliefs, what is the formula?
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/8/2008 7:54:07 PM
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FreeGrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
In your beliefs, what is the formula?
There is no formula for "making yourself a child of God", since no man can either save himself or regenerate himself.
It is all a work of God, in saving us per Eph 5:8, regenerating us per Titus 3:5, and adopting us as His children per John 1:12.
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/8/2008 8:00:59 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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God Jesus Christ Holy Spirit... Add nothing... Nor take away...
John
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/8/2008 8:08:22 PM
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MrFribbles
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May I add my "amen" to the replies so far?
To become a child of God is to become a Christian, to be saved, to receive salvation... Whatever you wish to call it.
_____________________________
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/8/2008 11:53:10 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
In your beliefs, what is the formula?
Surely you jest. Is a joke no?
_____________________________
The sin of the world is unbelief.
"I am a Believer, it is impossible for me to be an unbeliever."
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/10/2008 4:01:18 PM
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Heavendweller
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
In your beliefs, what is the formula?
Dear Ephesians,
Not quite sure what you mean. But if one looks at John 1:13 we can see from what is stated that becoming a child of God is "not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man."
Perhaps if you could be a bit more specific that would be helpful.
Heavendweller
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/10/2008 5:51:08 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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Are beliefs about this the same for everyone? I don't think they are. When I was about eleven, my friend said, "You aren't a child of God if you haven't been baptized."
That's a good verse, Heavendweller.
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/10/2008 5:54:52 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FreeGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ephesians4_32
In your beliefs, what is the formula?
There is no formula for "making yourself a child of God", since no man can either save himself or regenerate himself.
It is all a work of God, in saving us per Eph 5:8, regenerating us per Titus 3:5, and adopting us as His children per John 1:12.
But there are those who believe that man isn't saved without baptism. I love the verses you quoted!
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/10/2008 8:40:04 PM
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drmark
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I think a better question is: How do we keep ourselves as a child of God? 1 John 3:10
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/10/2008 11:19:34 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
I think a better question is: How do we keep ourselves as a child of God? 1 John 3:10
The Shepard takes care of the flock... If sheep could save or maintain themselves there would be no need for the Shepard...
Hebrews 7:25
Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
We only do because He did and does... Without Him we can do nothing...
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 5/10/2008 11:25:36 PM >
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/10/2008 11:28:29 PM
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drmark
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Sorry John, but the Shepherd does not eat for the flock, drink for the flock, sleep for the flock, reproduce for the flock, ...get my drift? 1 John 3:10 is crystal clear - we must do what is right and love our brethren to be children of God. He does not act for us nor love for us.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/11/2008 3:35:51 AM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
I think a better question is: How do we keep ourselves as a child of God? 1 John 3:10
Do you mean if He adopts us, how do we get Him to disown us or to not disown us? That's an interesting thought. If you adopted a child, would you disown him down the road? God wouldn't. For one thing, He already knows the future.
Isaiah 49
15Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee.
Hebrews 12
6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Romans 8
28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Hebrews 13
5Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
Matthew 28
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
God doesn't make mistakes!
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/11/2008 4:01:22 AM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Sorry John, but the Shepherd does not eat for the flock, drink for the flock, sleep for the flock, reproduce for the flock, ...get my drift? 1 John 3:10 is crystal clear - we must do what is right and love our brethren to be children of God. He does not act for us nor love for us.
1 John 3
10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 3:10 is a description of God's children. His children love Him and that means that they are doers of the word and not hearers only! Those whom He adopts, He has redeemed and will sanctify and glorify.
Philippians 1
3I thank my God upon every remembrance of you,
4Always in every prayer of mine for you all making request with joy,
5For your fellowship in the gospel from the first day until now;
6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
We, the redeemed, love Him because He first loved us!
6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Why was Paul confident that God wouldn't abandon the person that was born again? We do not have power to give ourselves the new birth. The Spirit decides to give new birth (John 3:8 "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.") Can someone go back in time and remove the new birth? Who can do that?
_____________________________
“To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect.” - John Owen
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/11/2008 8:49:29 AM
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drmark
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quote:
1 John 3:10 is a description of God's children. His children love Him and that means that they are doers of the word and not hearers only! Those whom He adopts, He has redeemed and will sanctify and glorify. So that must mean that God's adopted children will always try their best to do right and love His other children? I wish I were so optimistic, Eph4_32!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/11/2008 2:55:20 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
So that must mean that God's adopted children will always try their best to do right and love His other children? I wish I were so optimistic, Eph4_32!
So do you identify people as Christians who hate other Christians? That makes no sense to me.
John 13
35By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
1 John 3
10In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
1 John 2
9He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
Can a Christian walk in darkness? If you have come to Christ, Who is the Light of the world, how can you be in darkness? Was Paul walking in darkness after he became a Christian? Did he still hate Christians?
Ephesians 5
8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Titus 3
3For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.
4But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
_____________________________
“To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect.” - John Owen
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/11/2008 6:01:11 PM
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drmark
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quote:
So do you identify people as Christians who hate other Christians? That makes no sense to me. Makes no sense to me either, but that's not the point I made regarding Sovereign's post #10. Sheep must do certain things for themselves to maintain their health and well-being. The shepherd provides all the resources, but he cannot make the sheep use them. Similarly, Believers must maintain their spiritual health as God's children. God provides them all the resources they will ever need for this, but He cannot (or will not, if you prefer) make His children use them. Salvation and sanctification are a partnership with the Lord - Phil 2:12.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/11/2008 6:35:29 PM
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MrFribbles
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quote:
Salvation and sanctification are a partnership with the Lord - Phil 2:12.
Drmark, are you suggesting that someone who becomes a child of God can, then, by their action (or inaction), be disowned by God at a later time?
_____________________________
Can a mortal ask questions which God finds unanswerable? Quite easily, I should think. All nonsense questions are unanswerable.
- C.S. Lewis
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/11/2008 11:03:24 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Sheep must do certain things for themselves to maintain their health and well-being.
How do people who are called His sheep become His children, drmark?
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/11/2008 11:21:17 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Drmark, are you suggesting that someone who becomes a child of God can, then, by their action (or inaction), be disowned by God at a later time? I'm not "suggesting" anything, MrF. I'm reading the plain-sense meaning of dozens of Scripture passages which clearly indicate Believers have a responsibility to appropriate and apply the grace of God throughout their Christian walk. God neither forces us to be saved nor to be preserved. If you wish to debate OSAS, I understand there are several ongoing threads. I will not participate in them as I see nothing to debate - God's Word is clear to me!
quote:
How do people who are called His sheep become His children, drmark? Before I answer, Eph4_32, I should apologize for taking your OP off-topic. I'm sure your aware of my strong beliefs in this area of holy living and we have irreconcilable differences in our understanding of sanctification and preservation of the saints. Let me rephrase your question slightly: How are people God's children?
Prevenient Grace--->Saving Grace
Saving Grace--->Sanctifying Grace
Sanctifying Grace--->Keeping Grace
Keeping Grace--->Glorifying Grace
Is that a good enough "formula" for you?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/11/2008 11:36:55 PM
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Ezra
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quote:
Do you mean if He adopts us, how do we get Him to disown us or to not disown us? That's an interesting thought. If you adopted a child, would you disown him down the road? God wouldn't. For one thing, He already knows the future.
The word "adopotion" (Gk. huiothesia = placing as a son) as used in Scripture does not have the same meaning as the word adoption in common parlance.
"Adoption" in Scripture pertains to the rights and privileges of the heir when he comes to maturity. It speaks of the position of the son, not the relationship, which is already a fact. It pertains to the inheritance which God has reserved for His saints, not the fact that they are already in the family of God. God's children are "born from above" and "born of the Spirit". Therefore "adoption" in Scripture has a different meaning.
Children who are children by a blood relationship are not "adopted". But a child in this life cannot exercise its rights and privileges as an heir until he or she comes to maturity. In the interim, a guardian is necessary.
However, God has not only made us His children, but heirs -- heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ. But it is only when we are fully perfected -- body, soul , and spirit -- that we will exercise our rights and privileges.
In order to become a child of God, one must repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit who "regenerates" us -- He gives us the New Birth, which is supernatural and irreversible (Tit. 3:4-7). Those who are justified are also predestined to be "adopted" or become heirs of God.
_____________________________
And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/11/2008 11:38:28 PM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Sorry John, but the Shepherd does not eat for the flock, drink for the flock, sleep for the flock, reproduce for the flock, ...get my drift? 1 John 3:10 is crystal clear - we must do what is right and love our brethren to be children of God. He does not act for us nor love for us.
He provides the food and the ability to eat it... We do right because He changed us... We love our brethren with the heart from our second birth, not the one from the womb... We only act and love because He raised us from the dead... We do because He changed us... We don't do because we have a desire from within ourselves... The desire to do things of the Spirit, spring forth from the Spirit...
The verse isn't about becoming something, but a matter of who is or isn't based on their fruit of lack thereof...
Much the same as the following...
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
John
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/12/2008 12:03:16 AM
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SovereignIsHe
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
So do you identify people as Christians who hate other Christians? That makes no sense to me. Makes no sense to me either, but that's not the point I made regarding Sovereign's post #10. Sheep must do certain things for themselves to maintain their health and well-being. The shepherd provides all the resources, but he cannot make the sheep use them.
I beg to differ...
Ezekiel 36:26-27 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Psalms 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delighteth in his way.
Proverbs 16:9 A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps.
quote:
Similarly, Believers must maintain their spiritual health as God's children. God provides them all the resources they will ever need for this, but He cannot (or will not, if you prefer) make His children use them..
Jeremiah 10:23 O Lord, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
1 Corinthians 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
quote:
Salvation and sanctification are a partnership with the Lord - Phil 2:12.
What does man have that he gives to God that God didn't have to provide man with? Is man born with anything that can save him? Nope... Man is DOA...
Our salvation is eternal...
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
We worked out the temporal.... We cannot maintain ourselves anymore than we could save ourselves...
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
John
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/12/2008 12:32:34 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2278
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
How do people who are called His sheep become His children, drmark? Before I answer, Eph4_32, I should apologize for taking your OP off-topic. I'm sure your aware of my strong beliefs in this area of holy living and we have irreconcilable differences in our understanding of sanctification and preservation of the saints. Let me rephrase your question slightly: How are people God's children?
Prevenient Grace--->Saving Grace
Saving Grace--->Sanctifying Grace
Sanctifying Grace--->Keeping Grace
Keeping Grace--->Glorifying Grace
Is that a good enough "formula" for you?
How would you explain your beliefs to a person who isn't familiar with Wesleyan/Nazarene teachings?
Since you want to bring up our other differences on this thread, I want it known that I believe Christians should obey God. I do not believe that we are entirely sanctified and completely like Christ in this life. We do have the imputed righteousness of Christ.
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/12/2008 8:13:36 AM
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drmark
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quote:
I beg to differ... You can beg all you want, John, but every verse you've quoted has some kind of action performed by man: walk, keep, do, step, delight, devise, be, hear, labor, and will. I'm sorry you cannot grasp the concept of Christ doing "for" or "on behalf of" or "in place of" our actions. It is NOT the same as Christ doing in, through, and with our actions. Your concept is a holy little robot, unable to make any choice but automatically following his predestined program. My concept (the Biblical one) is a partnership with a loving God who graciously supplies all our spiritual needs and expects us to make right choices in, through, and with the Love of Christ.
quote:
How would you explain your beliefs to a person who isn't familiar with Wesleyan/Nazarene teachings? There are several open threads on sanctification, holiness, sinless perfection, imparted righteousness and other doctrinal issues on which I've posted. If you would like me to link a few of these, please let me know.
BTW, I've not seen where you've posted your formula for making yourself a child of God.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Making Yourself a Child of God - 5/12/2008 10:19:27 AM
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Ephesians4_32
Posts: 2278
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
How would you explain your beliefs to a person who isn't familiar with Wesleyan/Nazarene teachings? There are several open threads on sanctification, holiness, sinless perfection, imparted righteousness and other doctrinal issues on which I've posted. If you would like me to link a few of these, please let me know.
I don't understand why you are posting to this thread. Do you want to explain how a member of the Church of the Nazarene becomes a child of God? Do you want to debate how a person becomes a child of God? Or did you come here only to needle others for their beliefs? If an entirely sanctified person loves other Christians, does he politely answer their questions? Or are Christians of other denominations not really brothers and sisters in Christ? I'm trying to understand what your beliefs are.
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
BTW, I've not seen where you've posted your formula for making yourself a child of God.
I believe that God changes the heart of a sinner through regeneration by the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 2
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Titus 3
5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
7That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
I don't believe that a human can make himself/herself a child of God.
_____________________________
“To suppose that whatever God requireth of us that we have power of ourselves to do, is to make the cross and grace of Jesus Christ of none effect.” - John Owen
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