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kelman -> RE: Lucifer... is he really evil? (5/20/2008 3:07:08 AM)
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Question 1. Was Lucifer a perfect being, an angel, before his fall?
I think in most interpretations he was. Yes, perfect, in the same way Adam was perfect before he fell.
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Question 2. Would it be true to conclude the ideas that Lucifer is half beast and half man, a pan-like looking creature with cloven hooves and horns is just a myth created by the Catholic Church. In fact Lucifer retains his beauty as a former angel of heaven?
Definitely. And it makes sence for them to do so. In the Catholic Bible Lucifer is potrayed as evil and to enforce/credit this view its a good idea to give an unpleasent image to an unpleasent being. Since Satan is a spirit, what he looks like is rather a moot point. Since he is evil, it isn’t unreasonable to portray him in an evil light. Hopefully, people understand that what they're viewing is simply an artist's perspective.
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Question 3. Look at all the people in our prisons, all the wars. Walk down your local town or city high street and see the sewage called humanity there. Look at Hitler, Saddam Hussein and Stalin. Why should angels have to bow down before mankind that produces this sort of rubbish?.... Who says they do?
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They shouldn't. Nor should mankind bow before angels. God said that one was perfect and then the other. He never said that angels stopped being perfect or that humans were more perfect so one must assume they are equal. Of course Scripture says that "some" angels stopped being perfect: "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day."
In addition, Scripture also says man was made a "little lower" than the angels: “Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands” –Hebrews 2:7 Therefore, man and angels are not “equal”.
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Question 4. Lucifer totally loved God but he and other angels were being asked to love something other than God. Lucifer felt that he could only totally love one source, that was God, there was not room for his love of God to include man. A third of the angels agreed with Lucifer. Was God not being unreasonable here to expect his angels to split their love for him to include man as well? Since God is their Creator, it is the angel's job to obey the commands of God. They don’t get a say in whether God is being “unreasonable” or not. They were to be ministering spirits to man as man ruled over the earth. No doubt Satan thought he should be the ruler of all the earth and wasn’t about to handover that little perk to man. I don’t see anywhere that Satan was to “love” man.
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The problem with this is that it is specifically the Persian interpretation. Most others differ greatly as to how Lucifer fell. But going with this one I do beleive it was unfair of God to ask that of the angels. They have spent, who knows how long, devoting their love and existance to God and only God. And one day he suddenly decides to disrupt everything they have followed and command them to love man aswell. Not cool. Yep, how dare God continue on with His plans for man, how dare He “disrupt” angelic lives. Are you actually kidding here or what?
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Question 5. If the fallen angels exist on earth or in the air would it be correct to say that hell does not exist, a creation of the Catholic Church? No, what’s fair to say is that the final end to all things has not yet occurred.
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I believe that hell was created as a motivational tool. Avoid it. And to avoid it you must do so and so. In doing this you provide mental imagery, which is highly efective for most people, that will push them to to do right, or what they are taught is right. Whatever “hell” actually is, one thing is sure, it is for real since Christ and the OT spoke often enough about eternal death and destruction.
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Question 6. What exactly did Lucifer do wrong? He disobeyed God. He tempted Eve to sin. When Adam followed in Satan’s footsteps he plunged the world into sinful chaos.
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In some versions Lucifer became prideful and strived to be greater thean God which is a major sin. In the Persion version discussed previously, he did not obey the command of God to bow to man, instead choosing to love only God Himself. Just goes to show how some versions can be wrong. If Satan actually “loved” God, he would have obeyed Him. Obedience is an evidence of loving God “If ye love me, keep my commandments.” –John 14:15
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Question 7. Is Lucifer really evil?
It's all a matter of opinon. We’ll let God answer that question since His opinion is the only one that matters;
And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye? –Acts 19:15
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; –Hebrews 2:14
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. -1John 3:8
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. –Matthew 13:19
And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day? –Luke 13:16
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. –John 8:44
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. –Revelation 12:9
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: -1Peter 5:8
I don’t know about you; but, the above doesn’t sound like Satan is just some poor misguided spirit.
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