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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/17/2008 11:08:45 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3321
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The youth pastors DD saw the whole thing, and told the truth. Imagine it, for a moment my Daughter is laying on the couch, her best friend is across the room with pants down, after "supposed sexual encounter" She walks over like a duck with pants around ankles, and instead of a cigarette she goes for bag of chips with pants around ankles, like a duck. These boys are lying. The Youth Pastor Daughter saw what happened the girl bent down at the chips, and her panties showed. One of these boy I have had in class since five years old. He is a schemer, and act terrible, and always has been Where and how did anyone see a sexual encounter? No one did, and truthfuly these two girls were much more traumatized than her son and friend. They are not under Childrens Pastors care. They are youth group, and my husband is an elder. They handled it ignorant, and both girls are in tears, and your right. I do not care if her son saw a girl bent down a long way from my child, who had undies showing, My kid is on the coach, with a red eye, changed into glasess, all the children lay on the sofa. The other leaders feel bad about this, it is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. I am not throwing my child under the bus, because some mean little boys, saw some panties. I said the Youth Pastors daughter walked in the same time, and saw the same thing, her older brother was confused, and said " what is wrong with getting chips, we can buy more chips." I really with due respect do not care about her son, or her right now, both girls are mordified. If it were your children, how would you feel? I am sorry, but I know Jesus does not expect me to let my child be dumped on over and over in the name of Jesus. Nothing Happened!
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/18/2008 9:06:16 AM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1126
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I'm sorry. I didn't mean for you to take it that way.
I do feel for all the people in the situation, but you don't have to. You're the mama bear, and if it were my girl, I doubt I'd be able to be reasonable and balanced either.
Knowing that the boy is a trouble maker, I still think he's probably astonished at the amout of trouble he's made this time. Is he actually saying that he saw something other than one girl's panties? Is it him or other people that have jumped from "sight of panities" to "must have been something going on"?
Plus, the other mom is a moma bear too -- and if she believes something happened, then she's in difficulty too.
I also don't think you should 'throw your child under a bus' -- my recomendations were based on the assumption that the damage to the girls was already done, and not going to go away no mater how this is resolved. Is there some further damage that is possible here? Is there any kind of resolution that is likely to help much?
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/18/2008 11:02:02 AM
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rainbowtvp
Posts: 1090
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From: The Unted State of Confusion
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I find the whole thing very concerning.
Especially this line which has not been discussed:
quote:
The other children, now probaly have them pegged as lesbians, which both are outcast anyway.
Are you saying the girls are already "outcasts" before this incident?
I would be very uncomfortable staying in a church where 1) teens are allowed to be unsupervised (I have seen this at several churches, though)-- or technically the children's pastor is there, but he is in the corner hanging out with a few of his favorites and the rest are ignored 2) there are cliques and kids are treated differentially 3) children are publicly chastised/humiliated.
At the VERY least, the discussion should have been behind closed doors. But they also should have gotten the parents involved.
I do agree that we should run away from a church at every conflict--we should all try to learn from each other... but sometimes there are problems that are too deep to fix (esp if some are not willing to learn).
Tara P
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/18/2008 11:23:16 AM
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Kat_D
Posts: 3454
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rainbowtvp
Are you saying the girls are already "outcasts" before this incident?
Light, after further thought, maybe it is time to leave this church. I got to thinking that there have been many other things you have written about in the past concerning things that trouble you there.
All I can say is that I've gone to my church for several years and I've never encountered the amount of drama and negative incidents you have, and my church is huge. (I also work there, so I hear about nearly everything that transpires.)
Perhaps too much damage has been done for you to be comfortable in your church any longer. If my daughter was labeled an outcast, I think I'd be looking for another place to worship.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
I weep for those who won't experience this because they have been deceived.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/18/2008 1:46:51 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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I agree that what happened to these girls was wrong. To that end, has any of the adults involved apologized to them? I know some have called you but to me there needs to be apologies from these adults to your daughter and her friend. I think it is important that adults acknowledge wrong doing and mistakes to children.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/18/2008 3:00:59 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 2779
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I have read what you have gone through here, Lightshine. This whole thing scares me not only for the girls but for your whole family. I am too close to an incident that was somewhat similar that happened in my family to trust myself to write much, but I will write this, and I hope you understand that I write out of concern for you and your husband as well.
This: You said that you both hold positions in that church. Honey, there are a cajillion churches out there that are looking for willing workers, while most sit silent in their pews. Don't let your church positions hold you and your family in a place where it appears that your family continues to be abused. My advice would be, however, that when and if you leave, you sit quietly in your new church for awhile, allowing the L-rd to heal these hurts without jumping right in. Please.
And This: You are the girls' protector at this time, and it is important beyond what I can even attempt to define that they KNOW they are more important than that church (especially when there are other churches around) and than your positions in that church. Believe me, although if you leave, going to another church, if you to take a quiet time from church for yourselves, the girls will see it as what you are giving up to protect them. Indeed, while that is part of what you are doing, you will need it for yourself.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/19/2008 9:53:57 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3321
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Thank You everyone, I was hurt going to church yesterday, and my husband was supposed to pray over Tithes and Offerings. He called pastor yesterday morning telling him that we ( our family was hurting), and he should not pray in front of church. Pastor said he tried to tell Childrend Pastor Friday, that he was dissappointed in her behavior. He said she was "irrational, and could not talk with her", she must have called me right after he talked to her, because she was the same way. This is ususally avery kind, good, woman. I think her getting this little foster boy, recently has fixated on Sexual Abuse, since he was badly sexual abused. ( BTW) no the son who made up the story. One woman apologized, she is co-childrens pastor, but she will not tell regular childrens pastor the truth. The youth pastors wife, called my husband, and said her little girl saw the whole thing, and it backed up the girls story.
Last night, one of the little boys not CP son was in husband and my connection group. We had a movie night, It was funny it was about the ten commandments, about bearing false witneiss, I never had watched these movies, but you could tell he was uncomtrable and wanted to leave.
The Childrens pastor last night pulled in the parking lot, the same time as husband, and drove away.
abiyah you may be right about church, it is something I take very serious, but maybe it is time to move on. My DD did not go to church yesterday, with family, and I did not make her. Her view is different though she says if we quit the church, that makes us cowards, and she did not do anything to run from. Our Youth pastor and wife, are very kind to DD. I love the CP, I do not knw if she is having a break-down of sorts, I just do not know. This is until this point the kindest woman you would ever meet. My DD wants to talk to her, and tell her she owes her an apology, and try and reason with her. I do not know if this is a good idea, Sorry, if I seemed defensive in my post, I was just so confused Friday after the Childrens pastor called me. It is all so ridiculious, and Kat, you are right my family has learned lessons, I myself will not be as quick to judge without evidence. Thanks everyone, please pray. I do not want revenge, that is not my nature. I wish we in the church could do like we need,and treat each other the way Christ wants us too. I requested a meeting one on one with CP twice, and was refused.
< Message edited by lightshineon -- 5/19/2008 10:01:28 AM >
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/19/2008 11:08:28 AM
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sasquash_0
Posts: 47
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lightshineon,
After reading your OP my first reaction was everybody seems to be overreacting. In particular the adults. Lets just say in theory that these boys were right, your daughter was on the couch her friend 100 yards away with her pants down. How does this equal a sexual act?? Honestly, everyone is so caught up with all of the hype in society today that we tend to see evil and perversion in everything. Which is a gross misuse of our imagination. They are both girls possibly BF had to readjust her underwear, maybe her pants were too tight, maybe she had an itch that couldn't be scratched without unzipping. In my part of the world women do these things around each other all the time as long as no men were present. I had a BF that I grew up with and when we were little we used to bath together along with her sister, we never thought a thing of it and I still don't. Now that we are all in our thirties she could change her shirt in front of me and I wouldn't even give it a second thought, she's like my sister and none of us are lesibans. I mean maybe this story would be different if they caught them both on the couch in a loving embrace, or both smooching or one with the others hand down her pants etc. Then they might be more to talk about.
I say trust your instincts and what God is telling you. It's good that your investigating things though but in the end have confidence in your convictions you know your daughter better than anyone and have known her friend alot better than the church leaders. It sounds like people need to get some common sense especially that other parent.
As far as pulling your daughter out, well, because kids will talk, kids talk anyways and yes they can be mean, they are still immature. I know you just want to protect your daughter but ya know she is going to have to handle things like this throughout her adult life. Not everyone in life is going to like you and sometimes people gossip and say things that are not true. You can't run away everytime, you have to learn to stand your ground and deal with it. Unless the gossip gets to an unreasonable point I would talk with her about what her response should be and let her learn to deal with it, it's a life lesson she will have to face eventually, this is how we all grow to be mature and confident adults.
When I was in 7th grade (1987) I wanted to get my haircut short, in a cute pixie cut just like I had seen the gymnastic girls on tv sporting in the Olympics. My mom took me to the salon and I tryed explaining to the girl what I wanted, well she cut it like a straight boys haircut it was so short. This was at a time when I was very tall but had not hit puberty yet, so I didn't have much in the way for curves. I couldn't wear a pair of jeans, a sweartshirt and tennis shoes without people truly thinking I was a boy. It was very embarrassing. Even more embarrassing was the fact that I had to go to school and like your daughter I wasn't the most popular kid, there were groups of kids that like to tease me. Well, one week and one bad haircut later I was at school during lunch break and a few girls from one of these groups came up to me and asked me if I was a lesbian, take that back not asking but down right grilling. I had know idea of what to answer I didn't even know what a lesbian was at that time, it didn't sound nice though so I said no. It turns out there was a little gossip going around about me due to my haircut. I had to go home and ask my mom what a lesbian was and was shocked when I found out. It did make me a little insecure thinking that other people would think that about me, but it didn't ruin my life. I knew myself and the truth. I just had to ride it out by the time 8th grade rolled around everyone had forgotten it. It didn't ruin my life or my school career, in later years I learned that this rumor hadn't been as wide spread as I had envisioned. Actually I think it was only this small group of girls which amounted to a total of about of about 5 plus a few maybe a few other friends. No one else paid much attention. Food for thought.
Jodi :0)
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/19/2008 12:48:54 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 2779
Joined: 6/8/2005
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After reading your most recent post, Lightshine, before I continue reading, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not let your daughter talk to her alone! Your daughter will NEED witnesses. She will need you there, your husband, and two other witnesses who already know about this. Do Not Let Her Do This Alone!!! Please!
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/19/2008 1:07:48 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3321
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No way I agree, with you Abiyah, never alone, It is also Biblical. I agree with poster above you also. The other girls mom called me just now, she is so upset. One test in my mind would be if other littlle girl told her mom, then she would not be lying. Her pants show crack, I told my oldest that very day, pull her pants up crack is not allowed.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
After reading your most recent post, Lightshine, before I continue reading, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE do not let your daughter talk to her alone! Your daughter will NEED witnesses. She will need you there, your husband, and two other witnesses who already know about this. Do Not Let Her Do This Alone!!! Please!
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/19/2008 1:13:21 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 2779
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I so sincerely ask G-d's blessing on your daughter, you, your husband, your whole family. I ask Him to protect her and all of you. I ask Him to guide you to do what is right in His eyes only, not in yours, not in mine, not in theirs, not in any other's.
I do understand some of what you are writing, because my daughter was abused with the blessing of church people, who have never taken responsibility for their part of it. I am amazed, though, at my daughter, now age 36, and her attitude toward those people. I don't have her attitude. She is a far better person than I am.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/19/2008 1:29:02 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3321
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Thank You, and sorry for you daughters pain, but proud of her courage. I thank You for Blessings on family, and I pray the same for you and yours. BTW, something I have not done is pread this in church, not even to my best friend in the church. So everyone here will no I am not causing division and gossip.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
I so sincerely ask G-d's blessing on your daughter, you, your husband, your whole family. I ask Him to protect her and all of you. I ask Him to guide you to do what is right in His eyes only, not in yours, not in mine, not in theirs, not in any other's.
I do understand some of what you are writing, because my daughter was abused with the blessing of church people, who have never taken responsibility for their part of it. I am amazed, though, at my daughter, now age 36, and her attitude toward those people. I don't have her attitude. She is a far better person than I am.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/19/2008 2:58:41 PM
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SurpassingPeace
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I would like to say that I think your daughter has amazing courage and you should be proud of her! To confront an adult that tried to publicly humiliate you takes strength and conviction. That fact that she recognizes she has nothing to be ashamed about is a testament to her character and to your parenting. I am sorry your family is going through an obviously hard time but praise God your daughter is shining through as a light in the darkness. I hope that your daughter gets the apologies that her due her.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/19/2008 3:10:12 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 2779
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...but if she doesn't, if she takes the "high road," that will always remain in her memory.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/19/2008 3:26:28 PM
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Sadey
Posts: 482
Joined: 7/25/2007
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Where is the church leadership? I can't believe that the pastor or elders or someone hasn't intervened and stopped all of this. This is scarcy that no one seems to be in charge?
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/21/2008 6:00:28 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3321
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Abiyah, and all my freinds I have been so encouraged with your replies. The other mother called me furious, saying her child could not go to church anymore. Thank You for the corage relpy. I did not tell other mother to test to see if child would tell. Child told, because she felt she should not keep it from her mother. My husband is an elder, the pastor says be patient with CP, because the foster child is taking aggression out on the son, that told the story. Pastor keeps evading it, saying "the Spirit say's to let it all just go away". I said well the Bible says to handle things Matthew 18 style. Pastor keeps wishywashing. Sunday night my husband pulled up same time CP, and her husband and family did, seeing my husband they let the teenage son ( different son) out, and left with the rest of family. I was there earlier, than husband for a VBS meeting in which the J-12 pastor is in charge o VBS.. She said to me again "she was sorry, that the Holy Spirit had told her she was wrong", so on and so on. I ask her if she had called CP, which she said she would, she said "no husband said she had done all she could, and told her let it go." I thought about this, thinking she called CP with a lie, why can she not call her, and tell her what she knew was truth?" If leadership really think this happened then they need to ask my husband an elder to step down, and me a childrens teacher, and helper. This is Biblical Mandate and it needs to be done infront of the body. The point is, we are the type of people if we thought it to be true, we would step down, without being ask. I mentioned Matt 18, to pastor we just want to meet, as is Biblical, he refuses, as does the CP, with who we ask a meeting with. We are thinking of leaving the church, it hard when procedures do not follow the word, even to the extent, though I know it is untruth, they need to ask my husband to step down. My daughter says everytime she thinks of going back to church, she feels overwhelming shame, though she has done nothing wrong. Thanks again, it has encouraged a broken harted mom,and dad and this is the latest.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sadey
Where is the church leadership? I can't believe that the pastor or elders or someone hasn't intervened and stopped all of this. This is scarcy that no one seems to be in charge?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/21/2008 7:03:48 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 2779
Joined: 6/8/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
We are thinking of leaving the church, it hard when procedures do not follow the word, even to the extent, though I know it is untruth, they need to ask my husband to step down. My daughter says everytime she thinks of going back to church, she feels overwhelming shame, though she has done nothing wrong. Thanks again, it has encouraged a broken harted mom,and dad and this is the latest.
Lightshine, I know your precious daughter has said she wanted to stay, but this is very telling:
quote:
My daughter says everytime she thinks of going back to church, she feels overwhelming shame, though she has done nothing wrong. This is an awful burden for her to carry, looking into the faces of her accusers. I understand this all too well -- when one is innocent, but those who have made testimony are so adamant and get others to follow them against that one.
I have been through this. Further, in the face of my innocense, they would accuse me again, saying that if I had been innocent, I would not be feeling shame. They were wrong. They shamed me. I wouldn't want to see this happen to her. It is too hard to get beyong that.
May G-d give all of you grace, hope, and direction.
_____________________________
Abiyah
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
A tree's fruit is obvious; you have to look harder for the worm hole.
G-d has only one natural Son; EVERYONE else is adopted.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/21/2008 8:54:35 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3321
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Yes Abiyah, thank you very much, I think I agree. Is there a church that follows the word anymore?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/23/2008 5:13:07 PM
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Sadey
Posts: 482
Joined: 7/25/2007
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Yes Yes Yes there are churches that follow the word, there are ministers who lead and deal with hard issues and don't sweep troubles under the rug. I am blessed to go to one of these churches and am blessed to have a pastor who would be unafraid t deal with something like this.
I feel so bad for you and your family but I know God has a plan for you and you will be blessed.
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RE: I am so distressed. - 5/23/2008 7:04:29 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3321
Joined: 4/11/2005
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Thank You Sadey, I know there are, I was so depressed when I wrote that. I am sorry for even wondering. Had meeting yesterday, and have to cook supper, but will fill you in. Thanks so much for kind encouragement.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sadey
Yes Yes Yes there are churches that follow the word, there are ministers who lead and deal with hard issues and don't sweep troubles under the rug. I am blessed to go to one of these churches and am blessed to have a pastor who would be unafraid t deal with something like this.
I feel so bad for you and your family but I know God has a plan for you and you will be blessed.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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