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RE: About objectifying women - 6/9/2008 3:47:04 PM
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Ah-pappapishu
Posts: 28
Joined: 8/20/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: phosadaud
Wow... 
Jesus didn't come to earth and die on a cross for an object. And men are commanded to love their wives as Christ loved the church.
This isn't a difficult concept...
Viewing any human being as an object is selfish, unloving and un-Christlike.
Gosh, I like your response too. I've said it before- Nobody is merely an object. Never have I advocated that kind of belief or treatment of any human being regardless of race, gender, age, anything else.
However, what I am trying to say is that our physical nature is not worthless. It is not useless. It is not simply a means to an end. It is not evil or destructive.
There is an appropriate role for it. There is an appropriate role in our world for understanding and appreciating the God-given physical aspect of our existence.
Treating women solely as objects is wrong. But appreciating your woman's physical form and features is not wrong. In fact, it comes naturally to all men, in every culture in the world.
Yet somehow it is demonized in the public and the media. Men can't be honest and open about it anymore. They can't discuss it without fearing a backlash. Nobody understands it. Nobody wants to study it, explore it, research it. Most are only too willing to bash it.
However, that doesn't change who a man is, or how his mind works. He experiences the same pleasures, feels the same longings, dances in the same attractions that God created within him. Yet he has to walk on eggshells over the topic. He has to pretend it isn't there. He might have to lie to his own wife. If he submits to the voices of condemnation, he becomes guilty and self-hating. If not, he would lead a double life. One that satisfies the public agenda, and one that secretly satisfies his private desires.
It is all a dangerous, deceitful, dirty cycle that ruins men. It throws them to the ravages of sexual sin, addiction, dysfunction and ultimately destruction. It leaves marriages in ruin, families in grieving, children and spouses in shame, resentment and hatred.
So heck yeah it's an important topic to me. Because it hurts men. It has the potential to destroy men. Because of our twisted system that follows it's own whims and feelings rather than God's.
There's just a better way to handle this I think. But it starts with changing the way we think and bringing it in line with God.
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RE: About objectifying women - 6/9/2008 4:00:07 PM
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phosadaud
Posts: 9035
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
quote:
But honestly, I think it is very revealing about how society and feminism wants people to think, even if it means going against human nature, good sense, and most importantly, God's Word. I draw the line there. But evidently a lot of people don't.
*bold emphasis, mine.
Feminism is the rallying cry for all men that prefer to subjugate, including those that would twist and pervert the Word in effort to support their views. I refuse to accept objectification as a WOMAN that the Lord has created. I am more than my gender. I will be viewed as a complete person in the Lord.
I would love to see how objectification lines up with God's Word.
Double.
Dog.
Dare ya.
I
Triple
Dog
Dare ya
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
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RE: About objectifying women - 6/14/2008 10:50:32 AM
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ta_mosquito
Posts: 10921
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: from MN, now in Ontario :D
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
I've deleted a couple posts - one for a male posting in She Says, the other for replying to the post I had to delete.
This is the second instance of men besides the OP posting in this thread. Please note, guys, that this is in SHE SAYS, which means that you cannot post in here (unless you are Ah-pappapishu).
Thanks!
Tricia
Forums Moderator
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RE: About objectifying women - 6/14/2008 11:43:00 PM
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_CANCELLED_
Posts: 165
Joined: 6/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ah-pappapishu
When you hear the phrase "objectifying women", what do you think? What do you feel?
Shallow, hallow person
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ah-pappapishu
How do you define "objectifying"?
Viewing and treating someone as an object or possession; less than equal or human.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ah-pappapishu
What is "objectifying"? Is it good, bad, amoral?
It's superficial, selfish, and empty
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ah-pappapishu
Are there parallel phenomena among women?
Huh? You lost me there.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ah-pappapishu
Is "objectifying" natural? Unnatural? Is it pervasive, does it exist among all men in all cultures settings and situations?
I certainly don't think it's natural, no. I think it's a learned behavior.
_____________________________
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved, and they house--Acts 16:31
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RE: About objectifying women - 6/20/2008 12:49:25 AM
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Ah-pappapishu
Posts: 28
Joined: 8/20/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: landabee
It really is okay if you want to think that you can convince us that you weren't merely talking to us objects women.
Objects aren't supposed to think anyway. 
I'm "funnin'" but serious, too.
quote:
But honestly, I think it is very revealing about how society and feminism wants people to think, even if it means going against human nature, good sense, and most importantly, God's Word. I draw the line there. But evidently a lot of people don't.
*bold emphasis, mine.
Feminism is the rallying cry for all men that prefer to subjugate, including those that would twist and pervert the Word in effort to support their views. I refuse to accept objectification as a WOMAN that the Lord has created. I am more than my gender. I will be viewed as a complete person in the Lord.
I would love to see how objectification lines up with God's Word.
Double.
Dog.
Dare ya.
Well, I don't believe in subjugation of women, so I'm not sure who you're talking to there. Nor do I believe that the cultural definition of objectification that constitutes solely treating them as objects is morally right.
I have explained the idea of men processing things in a spatial sense, and how that should not be vilified or looked down upon. It is this, a reference to conceptualizing women in a physical sense, that I am referring to. I hope it's all clarified and you get what I'm saying here.
With that being said, references to the importance of a woman's physical beauty are rife throughout the OT. The best examples are
Genesis 24:15, 16
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
Genesis 6:1-4
In their context, and in several other instances throughout the scripture, it makes the importance of physical beauty evident. To a lot of people, the content of these scriptures, particularly that one in Deuteronomy, would make their stomach turn in disgust. I know it did to me when I first read it. No consideration of the woman's feelings, of her opinions, her intelligence. Is it really all beauty?
With our way of thinking, our values and social conditioning, we would hardly accept it, let alone cherish, respect and value it as God's Word, and the command of God Himself.
Yet, it goes to show that what "feels" right is not always what IS right. When what we "like" is contrary to what God says is right, we must give up our own preferences and ideals and cling to him, even when we do not yet understand it.
I think a lot of women who so violently reject this idea, must truly come to terms with what it is that prevents them from accepting it- fear. Fear of their well-being, fear for their self-esteem, their self-worth, their value in society, fear for their freedoms and rights.
But accepting the way men naturally tend to think does not necessitate these problems. Not if the man follows God's Word. Not if he loves his wife, not if he does not lust after women, not if he treats her the way God treats him. Not if he respects and cherishes her.
Ephesians 5:25-33
quote:
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.
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RE: About objectifying women - 6/26/2008 1:37:08 AM
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locomom
Posts: 244
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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If you use the word objectification, but declare that you mean differently than common use, you won't get very far. I suspect you've gotten that feeling from prior answers to your post, Ah-pappapishu,. Objectification has a significant history and a truly offensive meaning to too many to take it as the best choice for your new meaning.
Also visual skills can be taught. Girls benefit from activities and lessons that develop this skill.
Last, I have serious doubts about the claim that men are more visual than women when it comes to notice of and attraction to the opposite sex. I've heard it often repeated, but I have never heard it backed up with anything believable. Women do notice the opposite sex visually; we are not blind. We may be better at controlling our reactions or in our culture, we may be more willing to, but we do notice!
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RE: About objectifying women - 6/27/2008 12:05:56 AM
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LaurenAggie
Posts: 1
Joined: 6/26/2008
Status: offline
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Hello everyone, new poster here (longtime lurker! )
I think this is a very interesting thread.
Ah-pappapishu:
I have read Genesis 24:15, 16, Deuteronomy 21:10-14, and Genesis 6:1-4 in context and fail to see how they do anything above simply noting female beauty as one would note the state of the weather or the fact that Rebekah was carrying that jar...they do not, in my interpretation, "make the importance of physical beauty evident" as it relates to how men view women. They don't seem to suggest anything at all, but rather they state fact. Please tell me what I may have overlooked in my reading of these passages.
locomom, you said:
"Last, I have serious doubts about the claim that men are more visual than women when it comes to notice of and attraction to the opposite sex. I've heard it often repeated, but I have never heard it backed up with anything believable. Women do notice the opposite sex visually; we are not blind. We may be better at controlling our reactions or in our culture, we may be more willing to, but we do notice!"
Sorry I don't know how to "quote" just yet 
Wow! Thank you for that. I was starting to feel as if I was the only person with this point of view. I think you are dead on. I have been lurking through the boards here for some time and see the "men are more visual" argument frequently and have a hard time buying it as a premise for an argument. Maybe you and I are just "more visual" than the average lady!
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