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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 10/19/2009 1:01:42 PM
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writerchick
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quote:
ORIGINAL: truthrevealed
quote:
However, I freely if somewhat sheepishly admit that if I faced eviction on one side and one week's tithe on the other....I'd probably pay rent. Then I'd try to catch up.
Very interesting that you bring this up because I have personally been in this position and I've learned some things on this journey with God (but I expect no one to substitute what I believe God has revealed to me from their own understanding, the HolySpirit is capable  ).
God made it emphatically clear to dh and I that tithing is an act of faith...period! We were paying tithe, according to God, like we paid our bills (and with the same mindset as our "bills" I might add). Meaning, dh got paid weekly but we paid our tithe monthly. I thought as long as what we give per month is the equivalent of 10% per pay period what difference does it make, all of the money is still going where it belongs  . Not so, says God! We are to give off the top, to God...FIRST!!! Before[/i] rent, before bills. Our faith and trust is that we acknowledge thru our tithe that God is the giver of all (good) things and that He promises to take care of us. So, yeah, expect that our faith will be challenged because tithing isn't about money-----as if God needs our money(yes, the heating bill at our church building must be paid  ---but God doesn't need our money, He desires our trust).
Because of this, I don't think there's a such thing as "catching up" as it concerns the tithe. If we face a situation where it's either the rent or obedience to give God first, we either obey or we don't. And IMO, if we choose to pay rent first, then we show that we need to grow in our trust of God. And we will continue to face situations where we're "forced" to trust Him until we've learned to trust Him
I totally agree that we are to be obedient to God. However, sometimes paying our tithe can become a source of pride that God tries to move us away from. Given that, I disagree that paying the rent instead of the tithe is a form of disobedience. It all comes down to what God is telling that individual to do at the time.
On the issue of disobedience, God also says that we're worse than an infidel if we don't take care of our families. Rent kinda falls under this category. That's why it's so important to seek God's direction for you in this situation and not rely on other people's opinions of the matter. What directive is He urging you to obey? That's all that matters. Once you figure it out, you'll have peace and everything will fall in line.
And yes, I know this is almost a complete 180 from my earlier posts in this thread. God has really been working with me this year in this area.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 10/22/2009 4:42:18 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6339
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From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: eterno
quote:
ORIGINAL: truthrevealed
Yeah, the subject of tithing is a tricky one(for lack of a better word ) I wish it were a clear cut principle. It's either what we should do as christians or not---no in-between, KWIM? So, I don't debate the issue. I know what God has revealed to me, personally. He's only one God but people have different perspectives
I can try to make it clear cut and simple!
The only place in the new testament that speaks of a tithe is in Hebrews 7:6 and the reason was not about tithing, it was establishing respect for the position of Melchizedek as a priest. So just what does new covenant giving look like:
According to need (2Corinthians 8:14)
According to what you have (2Corinthians 8:11-12)
Not of guilt or compulsion (2Corinthians 9:7)
Cheerfully from the heart (2Corinthians 9:7)
Church leaders should teach liberation from a 10 percent tithe with the teaching of freewill giving. believers are free to give 1%, 10% or a 100% . Any other teaching is bondage to the law that we are free from by CHRIST work on the cross.
Though it has been discussed before, tithing is also found in Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 in the New Testament. People dismiss those for various reasons. But Christ affirmed tithing there but added it should be accompanied with justice and mercy and faithfulness.
And the passages in 2 Corinthians also have been discussed. They were not instructions for regular giving, but for a special offering for fellow believers in another country; sort of like foreign missions.
It also has been mentioned a time or two that Jesus increased requirements for His disciples, not lessen them.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 10/23/2009 9:34:47 AM
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truthrevealed
Posts: 718
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quote:
can try to make it clear cut and simple!
The only place in the new testament that speaks of a tithe is in Hebrews 7:6 and the reason was not about tithing, it was establishing respect for the position of Melchizedek as a priest. So just what does new covenant giving look like:
According to need (2Corinthians 8:14)
According to what you have (2Corinthians 8:11-12)
Not of guilt or compulsion (2Corinthians 9:7)
Cheerfully from the heart (2Corinthians 9:7)
Church leaders should teach liberation from a 10 percent tithe with the teaching of freewill giving. believers are free to give 1%, 10% or a 100% . Any other teaching is bondage to the law that we are free from by CHRIST work on the cross.
For me, the issue is as clear as any principle in the bible I know. This thread is full of scriptural support (for both views) it really provides an interesting study. I don't---nor can I----disagree with giving "from the heart" the bible clearly states that but I believe Paul is referring to the giving of offerings and not the tithe. So, in addition to giving God our first--fruit (tithe) we're certainly free to give above and beyond cheerfully, guilt-free and according to what we have.
I don't see it as bondage to the law unless I consider the principle of putting God first as a law I should not practice as a New Covenant believer. He desires to be first in everything, including our time and the decisions we make. Most people would agree with that, despite the fact that many of us disobey this principle in practical day to day things. So why shall the principle be any different concerning money? How is paying all of our bills and doing those things that "need to be done" first, then giving to God from what is left, cheerfully, freely and without compulsion, mind you , in agreeance with putting Him first? The argument that we need to provide for our families is not an acknowledgement, IMO, that God Himself is our provider and that everything we have comes from Him, and Him alone! As such, we give Him first from the earnings that He has provided for us not what's left over
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/3/2009 3:28:26 PM
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gmcspice
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Please forgive me because I haven't read a single post on this thread yet.
But I am having a serious dilemma. I want so much to be able to give my 10% but find I can't seem to. I know that I am a steward of what belongs to God which is everything that I own. The reason I haven't been able to give my tenth to the church is because I am currently helping my dad who has terminal cancer, pay his bills, I am also paying mine. I make sure my dad has groceries in his home and all. which leaves me with just enough to take care of my children and myself each week. Add on top of this that I am single mom and by the time I take care of everything, it is all gone. What do I do? my heart hurts every time I can't give. what should I do? I have tried setting aside the amount but something always seems to come up that needs to be done. And yes, I have weighed each matter to make sure it is a need not a want. I know God looks at my heart but I just don't feel like I am giving as I should. I do give my time and efforts when something needs to be done within the church body, I am the first to volunteer my time and I love doing for my brothers and sisters and helping even sinners if it is needed and always with gladness in my heart. But It still comes down to not being able to give my ten percent of my paycheck each week that really bothers me.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/4/2009 3:01:12 AM
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Annie64
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From: Indianapolis, IN
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This passage of Scripture came immediately to mind as I read your post: Matthew 15:3-9.
quote:
Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? For God said, 'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who cursed his father or mother must be put to death.' But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, 'Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,' he is not to 'honor his father' with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake or your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 'These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from Me. They worship Me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men."
Harsh words to anyone who would try to say that you must give to the church what you are using to honor your father with! And I am one who pays my 10% before I pay my other bills. Don't worry about it! Jesus Himself said this, and this Scripture shows that it is far more important that you honor your father than that you pay your tithes. There will come another season in your life that you are able to tithe, I'm sure. In the meantime, I think the Lord would say to you, as He said to David when David wanted to build a temple, but he wasn't the one to build it: "You did well to have this in your heart." (1 Kings 8:18).
< Message edited by Annie64 -- 11/4/2009 3:07:44 AM >
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ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/4/2009 10:01:55 AM
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Eutychus
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Annie, IMHO, that passage was not talking about tithing. It was talking about a practice, corban, the Pharisees used to "protect" all that they owned during their lifetimes. They would simply dedicate everything to God and anything left after they died would go to the Temple. And, since it was no, according to their tradition, longer theirs to give to anyone else, when they saw anyone in need, including parents, they were "unable" to help them.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/8/2009 7:11:30 AM
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rparlo
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Matthew 6:33: Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these other things will be added unto you!
Honor God first in the way that He said to honor Him. Stop trying to pour your income and assets out on others without giving to Him first and foremost. By His own Word, this is the situation that opens great doors of blessing for you and others that He desires you to help. In other words, He puts the super to your natural. Otherwise, you're only left with the natural you can do and that will not stretch as far as you'd like, especially when financial problems are crunching you on everyside.
Who among you thinks God is so small, weak, powerless and uncaring that if you tithe, to help the church lead people to Christ, He cannot or will not then provide your need according to His riches in glory in Christ allowing you to take care of your family and indeed all of that which He has purposed for you (including emergency and special needs), so that you will not be an infidel?
< Message edited by rparlo -- 11/8/2009 7:39:31 AM >
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/9/2009 7:34:46 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 654
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quote:
rparlo Date 11/8/2009 7:11:30 AM
Matthew 6:33: Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these other things will be added unto you!
And what is the Kingdom of God to you, par?
My God the great I am says that if I honor my mother and father, then I AM putting God first. It is what is in my heart that God is looking at. Am I honoring my mother and father to gain something or am I doing it because of God's love placed in me by Christ when I was saved? God tells me to do what HE says because I love him. And his word clearly says to honor my mother and father.
And my Bible says that God owns everything I have and me and my children and my house hold. So, helping my dad IS honoring God!
Giving money to the building IS not building up the CHURCH. Give to those who need. And with a cheerful heart!
quote:
Eutychus Date 11/4/2009 10:01:55 AM
Annie, IMHO, that passage was not talking about tithing. It was talking about a practice, corban, the Pharisees used to "protect" all that they owned during their lifetimes. They would simply dedicate everything to God and anything left after they died would go to the Temple. And, since it was no, according to their tradition, longer theirs to give to anyone else, when they saw anyone in need, including parents, they were "unable" to help them.
Euty, she was answering a question about me not being able to pay my tithes because I have been helping my dad pay his and feed him and such. He is dying of cancer by the way. So, from my understanding Jesus certainly approves of me taking care of my Dad before paying tithes because he said that to the pharisees.
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To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/9/2009 9:21:47 AM
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truthrevealed
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quote:
So, from my understanding Jesus certainly approves of me taking care of my Dad before paying tithes because he said that to the pharisees.
Gmspice. So what then is your dilemma?
_____________________________
I'll tell the world....where--ever I go. That I, have found, a Savior....and He's sweet I know!!!
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/9/2009 9:42:56 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 654
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quote:
Gmspice. So what then is your dilemma?
My dilemma WAS people judging me for not always being able to tithe because I am helping my dad.
So, I went on here and expressed my concerns. Then as the Bible says I went back to research the Bible for the advice I was given and found it to be truth. NOW, when I came back to read some other posts, the person who gave me good biblical advice is catching flack for it. That is just not right. Annie gave me good SPIRITUAL advice on my situation and is now being condemned for it. Is it not right that I should defend good sound advice that is (as I researched) backed up by God's word?
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/9/2009 9:49:24 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
BTW, a few years ago my father died 6 years after a severe stroke. A couple of years latter, my elderly mother in law died from breast cancer and, about 18 months later (last November, in fact) my father in law died from advanced prostate cancer. During those dark years, we helped support my mom and the in-laws without ever skipping a tithe (actually, more than 10% of my gross income). I'm not telling you that you should or can do the same, I'm only saying that God made it possible for us to honor our parents in their time of need AND continue to worship the Lord, our supplier of everything, with a return of a portion that He gave us.
In case it was overlooked, please see what I wrote earlier (in bold).
Thanks
< Message edited by Eutychus -- 11/9/2009 11:22:14 AM >
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/9/2009 9:55:29 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
Gmspice. So what then is your dilemma?
My dilemma WAS people judging me for not always being able to tithe because I am helping my dad.
So, I went on here and expressed my concerns. Then as the Bible says I went back to research the Bible for the advice I was given and found it to be truth. NOW, when I came back to read some other posts, the person who gave me good biblical advice is catching flack for it. That is just not right. Annie gave me good SPIRITUAL advice on my situation and is now being condemned for it. Is it not right that I should defend good sound advice that is (as I researched) backed up by God's word?
I'm sorry that you think giving my opinion on the proper use of a passage is flack and condemnation. It was not intended to be. I've always considered proper use of scripture to be of great importance and have appreciated when a brother or sister has corrected my misuse of any passage, even if it meant changing a view that I preferred.
But Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 are the only two places where Jesus directly addressed tithing and He said they were to both do the weightier matters AND tithe.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/9/2009 10:41:58 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 654
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Eutychus Date 11/9/2009 9:55:29 AM
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
quote:
quote:
Gmspice. So what then is your dilemma?
quote:
My dilemma WAS people judging me for not always being able to tithe because I am helping my dad.
So, I went on here and expressed my concerns. Then as the Bible says I went back to research the Bible for the advice I was given and found it to be truth. NOW, when I came back to read some other posts, the person who gave me good biblical advice is catching flack for it. That is just not right. Annie gave me good SPIRITUAL advice on my situation and is now being condemned for it. Is it not right that I should defend good sound advice that is (as I researched) backed up by God's word? I'm sorry that you think giving my opinion on the proper use of a passage is flack and condemnation. It was not intended to be. I've always considered proper use of scripture to be of great importance and have appreciated when a brother or sister has corrected my misuse of any passage, even if it meant changing a view that I preferred.
But Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 are the only two places where Jesus directly addressed tithing and He said they were to both do the weightier matters AND tithe
It is okay. For me, there are just sometimes I can't pay my tithes. and I am sure God understands that. Another thing is, where in the NT does it say that tithes is always money? I give time, effort and anything else that is needed from me.
There is also the fact that not only am I helping to support my dad, but I am a single mom that gets no support for my 2 kids. I don't think God gave me my job to NOT make sure that my family is taken care of. I truly believe that is my first priority in serving God. I believe that in serving my family I am serving God.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/9/2009 11:21:23 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6339
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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Oops... I edited when I meant to quote, so a LOT of my previous post above was lost. But please scroll up and see what's left of it where I bolded a comment in the original post, "I'm not telling you that you should or can do the same, I'm only saying that God made it possible for us to honor our parents in their time of need AND continue to worship the Lord, our supplier of everything, with a return of a portion that He gave us".
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/9/2009 6:57:49 PM
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truthrevealed
Posts: 718
Joined: 12/6/2007
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quote:
My dilemma WAS people judging me for not always being able to tithe because I am helping my dad.
So, I went on here and expressed my concerns. Then as the Bible says I went back to research the Bible for the advice I was given and found it to be truth. NOW, when I came back to read some other posts, the person who gave me good biblical advice is catching flack for it. That is just not right. Annie gave me good SPIRITUAL advice on my situation and is now being condemned for it. Is it not right that I should defend good sound advice that is (as I researched) backed up by God's word?
Gm, you should do whatever brings you PEACE I asked the question because your original post stated you were having a dilemma. Irregardless of the opinion of any man, you are to do what God says. On that we certainly agree! As it concerns paying tithes, first, I believe the bible is clear but the Holy Spirit, Himself is able to convict our hearts. No trouble no foul 
< Message edited by truthrevealed -- 11/9/2009 7:06:44 PM >
_____________________________
I'll tell the world....where--ever I go. That I, have found, a Savior....and He's sweet I know!!!
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RE: Tithes and Offerings - One Stop Thread - 11/13/2009 3:32:04 AM
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Annie64
Posts: 1096
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From: Indianapolis, IN
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I didn't feel like I was getting flack or being condemned. Eutycus was just pointing out why he thought the Scripture I used didn't fit. I can see his reasoning, but since tithes are gifts to the church, and to God, I still think it does fit.
_____________________________
On Christ the solid rock I stand
ALL other ground is sinking sand.
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