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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/2/2008 11:34:41 AM
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HisCovenant
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One problem with self examination is that we can lie to ourselves. I've been there, telling myself something that was totally wrong. It took God showing me the lie for me to release it. At the time, I had been examining myself... but not through the truth. I wasn't looking into the mirror of God's word. I was looking into the mirror of the world.
We have to be using Christ and His Word as our looking glass to get the truth. It has to be examination by God, using His judgement rather than self-examination.
_____________________________
-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/2/2008 5:26:46 PM
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deliveredarling
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Oh my, what responses! I went out of town and this thread burst wide open! 
It's going to take me a little while but I have specific responses to a few of the comments.
The participation has been great. I find this topic a little uncomfortable yet so growth filled. Self examination is never easy.
Any one of ya'll ever done a 4th step from a recovery program? It's the most gut wrenching experience of one's life. However, the benefit of having done it, is a new creature.
People want to say that it's only God who changes us. Yes, this is true, but only partly. We have to be willing to allow God to come into our lives. We have to let him do His job. It's the only action required on our parts. When I say this I mean for you to understand that our "allowing" Him, means that we are no longer ignoring and rejecting Him. So please don't misunderstand my wording here.
Self examination is never a one time deal. It's a way of life, for the rest of our days here. if we are not doing it, we have become complacent and no longer are growing in Him.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/2/2008 5:33:53 PM
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HisCovenant
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
People want to say that it's only God who changes us. Yes, this is true, but only partly.
If you do a search on "the heart," you will find that this is true. The Bible states repeatedly that we have to change our heart in many different situations. We have responsibility, too.
_____________________________
-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/2/2008 9:20:59 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3604
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From: my mom by God
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Submission. Its a tough word for some. Maybe that is why there are fewer men in church? I don't know but submission can be very difficult.
I think...impossible without God. Yes we must submit but I don't think we can do this without God.
God's the fuel, we are the engine. Wiuthout fuel we go no wheres. We can't move or do work without the fuel but our tanks must be filled so we can do the work.
The filling is salvation, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. In salvation our tanks are full. We have the ability to accomplish.
Now, we must drive.
Thing is, God isn't just the fuel. He is also the map. We have to follow the map as well. He is the destination and the starting point. We do the moving...again fueled by God.
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 9:56:05 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1685
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quote:
What about the tax collecteor...if I remember corectly...who said have pity on a sinner like me? The pharesee gave thanks he wasn't like the tax collector....which one are you?
What about the thief on the cross who didn't have time to do good works?
Paul said he was chief amungst sinners.
The centurion was praised for his faith...more than any in Isreal...was he sinless? Was he judged by his sinless nature...or by his faith?
Saved by Grace through faith...where is sinlessness in that?
If sin seperates us from God what did faith in Christ attain us? Nothing? If sinlessness saves us then why did Christ come? The Law would have been enough.
The difference being, these recognized their sinfulness, their need for The Savior.
Sin does separate us from God. When we willingly choose sin over doing what God desires for us and expects of us, we are stepping away from Him. The nation of Israel is an example of this. They stepped away from Him-He never left them. He allowed them to suffer because of their disobedience. Walking in misery is not being aligned with the Father. God doesn't tolerate disobedience. RC has shown scriptural guidelines to show us His Way. We have choices. We don't always make the right ones.... This is the learning process, the growth process, the sanctification of us.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 9:57:32 AM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
What do you think about this?
I think I would love to see SOMEONE who truly understood what it meant to examine ourselves.
I think I would love to find SOMEONE who understood what the term DOCTRINE meant-from it's original meaning to how it is currently perverted in our religious system today.
I think I would LOVE to find someone who understood what Jesus meant when He said "find out what this means, I desire mercy not sacrifice" (Hosea 6:6 and Matthew 9:13, Matthew 12:7 and follow up in Roman 12:1).
I think I would LOVE to find a group of believers who understood that rules only help with regards to the SPIRIT within which they are written-if one does not understand the spirit of the rule, one cannot understand the rule itself. Likewise, if one attempts to make following a rule a law unto itself, they have "cleaned the outside of the cup" but left the inside as dirty as it started out. THAT'S the great paradox of our age-we are pushed more and more "rightousness" (which in so many cases is not rightousness at all) at the expense of true love for God.
Please explain to us where we are missing the boat.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 9:59:48 AM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
The most important part of self examination are the tools that we use. When we use the tool of Christ-likeness, we will always come up short. However, the resemblance should be apparent to others in that they should be able to see the family that we belong to. When we effectively apply the word of God to our flaws, they can be completely removed... forever!
Absolutely! No doubt about it!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 10:02:58 AM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
It took God showing me the lie for me to release it.
There is so much truth in this. Self lies are tools of the enemy. Every time we justify an action.....
Relying on our own knowledge......
Listening to others before seeking the Lord. All are lies we can hear and assume we are hearing from God because it "feels" right.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 10:10:22 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1685
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quote:
Submission. Its a tough word for some. Maybe that is why there are fewer men in church? I don't know but submission can be very difficult.
I think...impossible without God. Yes we must submit but I don't think we can do this without God.
God's the fuel, we are the engine. Wiuthout fuel we go no wheres. We can't move or do work without the fuel but our tanks must be filled so we can do the work.
The filling is salvation, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. In salvation our tanks are full. We have the ability to accomplish.
Now, we must drive.
Thing is, God isn't just the fuel. He is also the map. We have to follow the map as well. He is the destination and the starting point. We do the moving...again fueled by God.
This is excellent! Submission is the answer. So much easier said than done, though. Sometimes I can truly submit, sometimes it's really hard. The world gets in the way. Sometimes I have to get knocked to my knees in order for me to submit. That is never any fun. the darnedest thing is, I know which way to go and still I sometimes resist! Pain teaches me. Consequences remind me to not do something again. My memory tells me to not do whatever because of what happened last time. If we constantly put out, Something has to fill us up. if it's not Jesus, then our efforts are in vain. We won't see progress and the road will be tough. He gives us and equips us of every task He wants us to fulfill. Burnout is doing what we think He wants from us. The energizer bunny just keeps going and going and going-Christ fills us in this manner. Constantly energized is complete submission.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 10:12:16 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1685
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quote:
If you do a search on "the heart,"
I thought about this the other day and began looking up verses on the heart. I found some interesting, seemingly, contradictory verses. Put them all together and they make complete sense.
Care to start a thread on it and we can begin a study on the heart?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 10:50:12 AM
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HisCovenant
Posts: 4635
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You can click on "My Subscriptions" in the top menu bar (at forums.crosswalk.com) and subscribe to a folder so that you get emails about each new thread that is created.
I don't have time to start it today, but I may do that tomorrow if you don't plan on doing so.
_____________________________
-HisCovenant/ Zipporah
My friends call me Zippy!
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 10:52:20 AM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1413
Joined: 1/22/2008
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quote:
think I would love to see SOMEONE who truly understood what it meant to examine ourselves.
I think I would love to find SOMEONE who understood what the term DOCTRINE meant-from it's original meaning to how it is currently perverted in our religious system today.
I think I would LOVE to find someone who understood what Jesus meant when He said "find out what this means, I desire mercy not sacrifice" (Hosea 6:6 and Matthew 9:13, Matthew 12:7 and follow up in Roman 12:1).
I think I would LOVE to find a group of believers who understood that rules only help with regards to the SPIRIT within which they are written-if one does not understand the spirit of the rule, one cannot understand the rule itself. Likewise, if one attempts to make following a rule a law unto itself, they have "cleaned the outside of the cup" but left the inside as dirty as it started out. THAT'S the great paradox of our age-we are pushed more and more "rightousness" (which in so many cases is not rightousness at all) at the expense of true love for God.
These are true words indeed. Thank you, blue!
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 10:56:10 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1685
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quote:
think I would love to see SOMEONE who truly understood what it meant to examine ourselves.
I think I would love to find SOMEONE who understood what the term DOCTRINE meant-from it's original meaning to how it is currently perverted in our religious system today.
I think I would LOVE to find someone who understood what Jesus meant when He said "find out what this means, I desire mercy not sacrifice" (Hosea 6:6 and Matthew 9:13, Matthew 12:7 and follow up in Roman 12:1).
I think I would LOVE to find a group of believers who understood that rules only help with regards to the SPIRIT within which they are written-if one does not understand the spirit of the rule, one cannot understand the rule itself. Likewise, if one attempts to make following a rule a law unto itself, they have "cleaned the outside of the cup" but left the inside as dirty as it started out. THAT'S the great paradox of our age-we are pushed more and more "rightousness" (which in so many cases is not rightousness at all) at the expense of true love for God.
These are true words indeed. Thank you, blue!
I still want to know what is meant by this. It seems like something is missing from it.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 11:00:16 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 772
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I must say I have lost sight of what this thread is all about. The verses that deal with our examining ourselves deal with very specific areas, and are limited to those areas. We seem to have gone well beyond that.
Self-examination accomplishes only one thing...preoccupation with self. Preoccupation with self is not something any of us needs any encouragement to do. The truth is we are all preoccupied with ourselves already.
Dwelling on ourselves does not reveal any truth about ourselves to us. "The heart is deceitful above all things." We are incapable of seeing ourselves honestly. If we were honest with ourselves we would know that in and of ourselves "we" are wretched. What good can be accomplished by examining what is wretched?
When we are preoccupied with ourselves and our sins, our emotions will logically follow our thinking down into the pit. This is why we see so many sad and depressed Christians. They are preoccupied with themselves and what they are doing.
God has a better way. It is better even than Freudian psychology. Gods way is this...
"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things." Philippians 4:8
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 11:10:25 AM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1685
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quote:
Self-examination accomplishes only one thing...preoccupation with self. Preoccupation with self is not something any of us needs any encouragement to do. The truth is we are all preoccupied with ourselves already.
It is about our constantly seeing our need for a Savior. Denying ourselves. Dying to self. We all need improvement in those areas. When we lose sight of that we forget that we need Jesus. We forget how very sinful we are. We forget that we need to repent or even recognize that we are indeed still sinners. It's about humility and getting rid of the pride that we so often carry without even realizing it.
quote:
What good can be accomplished by examining what is wretched?
quote:
By bringing it to God and asking Him to remove it from us.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 3:04:38 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 772
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Self-examination accomplishes only one thing...preoccupation with self. Preoccupation with self is not something any of us needs any encouragement to do. The truth is we are all preoccupied with ourselves already.
quote:
It is about our constantly seeing our need for a Savior. Denying ourselves. Dying to self. We all need improvement in those areas. When we lose sight of that we forget that we need Jesus. We forget how very sinful we are. We forget that we need to repent or even recognize that we are indeed still sinners. It's about humility and getting rid of the pride that we so often carry without even realizing it.
You die to self by examining self? Its humility that causes us to dwell on ourselves? I completely understand that our sins are a constant reminder of our need for Christ. But how is preoccupation with self humility? Preoccupation with self IS pride.
quote:
What good can be accomplished by examining what is wretched?
quote:
By bringing it to God and asking Him to remove it from us.
How does God remove our flesh, without removing us from it? Our flesh is everything that we are apart from God's control. Our flesh is sinful. It will always be sinful.
“I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my flesh; For I desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.” Romans 7:18
Our flesh isn't sinful because it sins, it sins because it is sinful. You cannot clean up the flesh. The flesh does not improve, in fact, it gets worse as a Christian...
"For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want" Gal. 5:17
This is our condition as long as we live in these fallen bodies. Is the answer to the old sin nature to be in constant examination of it? Will that change the nature of it? To search ourselves for sins? As if we have to work that hard to find them? As if sin is not all our flesh is capable of?
Does God say we should sit around examining ourselves? Or is this what God says...
“What a wretched man that I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God - through Jesus Christ our Lord!” Romans 7:24-25
And isn't this what God says is the solution...
“So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh” Gal. 5:16
Gods Word does not say anything about "cleaning up the flesh"? It also doesn't say the desires of the flesh will go away. What it does say is that if we will live by the Spirit, in total dependency upon Him, we will not do what the flesh desires.
To live in dependence upon Jesus through His indwelling Spirit is the opposite of living by self-examination. Instead count yourself dead to sin...and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 4:27:16 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1685
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quote:
You die to self by examining self? Its humility that causes us to dwell on ourselves? I completely understand that our sins are a constant reminder of our need for Christ. But how is preoccupation with self humility? Preoccupation with self IS pride.
You completely missed the point. You die to self by being willing to give up those character defects (sinful aspects). We aren't focusing on ourselves or our sin. We are aware of those defects when He brings them to our attention. When we realize then, we then humble ourselves to Him by repenting of them. Turning away from those defects and asking Him to remove them.
We are to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith. If we aren't ever changing and conforming to be more Christ-like, we are not in the faith. We have grown cold and complacent, sleeping.
The Bible has this, specifically to say about examining ourselves:
2Cr 13:5 Test yourselves {to see} if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test?
and,
1Cr 11:28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
1Cr 11:29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.
1Cr 11:30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.
1Cr 11:31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.
1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.
1Cr 11:33 So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.
Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the lamp of the LORD, Searching all the innermost parts of his being.
We have to be willing to give up the things of the flesh-this is dying to self. To not do what the flesh wills. How do we know what those are? By examining ourselves to see if we are of the faith.
I can wait and wait and wait on the Lord to change a certain aspect. However, if I am not willing to give it up-it will remain with me. He will remove it, if I give it to Him. He won't force me to change in any way. By examining myself, I see areas that need to go away. I pray for willingness to let them go and He takes them. The problem with the sin nature, is every time one is gone, something else replaces it. It is ever a continuous process-the refining and sanctification of the saints.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 5:43:16 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1685
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URF, I need to add this to the above response:
Jam 1:22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
Jam 1:23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror;
Jam 1:24 for {once} he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.
Jam 1:25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the {law} of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.
Jam 1:26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his {own} heart, this man's religion is worthless.
Jam 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of {our} God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, {and} to keep oneself unstained by the world.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 6:25:15 PM
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URForgiven
Posts: 772
Joined: 3/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
quote:
You die to self by examining self? Its humility that causes us to dwell on ourselves? I completely understand that our sins are a constant reminder of our need for Christ. But how is preoccupation with self humility? Preoccupation with self IS pride.
You completely missed the point. You die to self by being willing to give up those character defects (sinful aspects). We aren't focusing on ourselves or our sin. We are aware of those defects when He brings them to our attention. When we realize then, we then humble ourselves to Him by repenting of them. Turning away from those defects and asking Him to remove them.
We are to test ourselves to see if we are in the faith. If we aren't ever changing and conforming to be more Christ-like, we are not in the faith. We have grown cold and complacent, sleeping.
The Bible has this, specifically to say about examining ourselves:
2Cr 13:5 Test yourselves {to see} if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you--unless indeed you fail the test?
and,
1Cr 11:28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
1Cr 11:29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.
1Cr 11:30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.
1Cr 11:31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.
1Cr 11:32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.
1Cr 11:33 So then, my brethren, when you come together to eat, wait for one another.
Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the lamp of the LORD, Searching all the innermost parts of his being.
We have to be willing to give up the things of the flesh-this is dying to self. To not do what the flesh wills. How do we know what those are? By examining ourselves to see if we are of the faith.
I can wait and wait and wait on the Lord to change a certain aspect. However, if I am not willing to give it up-it will remain with me. He will remove it, if I give it to Him. He won't force me to change in any way. By examining myself, I see areas that need to go away. I pray for willingness to let them go and He takes them. The problem with the sin nature, is every time one is gone, something else replaces it. It is ever a continuous process-the refining and sanctification of the saints.
The test described in 2Cor 13:5 is exactly what is says, "Do you realize that Christ is in you?" If you do, you have passed the test. If you do not, well then you have a problem.
The self-examination described in I Cor. 11:28 is not an introspective navel-gazing of our sinfulness, but an examination of our mind-set within the partaking of the Lord's Supper, and a discernment of our right relation with fellow believers within the Body of Christ. Paul is not suggesting we examine ourselves to see if we are worthy...we are all unworthy! The examination is to whether we are partaking in a worthy manner.
You have taken some passages that deal with very specific areas and an early congregations perversion of our Lords Supper, and you have applied them to our entire Christian experience. That is taking Scripture out of context and can only result in error.
I believe I have not misunderstood you, and I believe if you would cogitate on my previous posts you will find truth there.
Peace
_____________________________
"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 7:25:39 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1685
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quote:
You have taken some passages that deal with very specific areas and an early congregations perversion of our Lords Supper, and you have applied them to our entire Christian experience. That is taking Scripture out of context and can only result in error.
I believe there is more to this context than what you state.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Examine Yourselves - 6/3/2008 7:56:58 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1685
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They were being chastised for their selfishness and carnality. vs 20-22
They were told to examine themselves before partaking of the Lord's supper-we are told to do the same.
His body is the bread we hunger for-are we still hungry for it?
The cup is of His blood: are we still thirsty for it?
They were instructed to examine their motives for participating. Are we not to do the same? His body is the church, why do we participate? As much as we would all like to believe that we are there for all the right reasons, some just are not. Test our faith. Sometimes our boat has to be rocked to remind us.
I don't believe for one minute that I have used these scripture inaccurately. It's called applying them to my life. Again I will reference these vs:
Jam 1:22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves.
Jam 1:23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his natural face in a mirror;
Jam 1:24 for {once} he has looked at himself and gone away, he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was.
Jam 1:25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the {law} of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in what he does.
Jam 1:26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his {own} heart, this man's religion is worthless.
Jam 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of {our} God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, {and} to keep oneself unstained by the world.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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