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ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Besiderself's Batty Belfry (11/6/2009 11:11:45 PM)
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Sorry about the coffee...glad you could bring your own drink. There's wine in the fridge if you're interested...[&:]
Since scripture both supports the concept of free will and also the concept of predestination to the point that God controls every movement of every atom of the universe, I must conclude that God is indeed in control of everything, yet without infringing upon our free will--which is even more awesome than the "black and white" idea that either there is free will OR God is a monster. [sm=rollingeyes.gif]
Here are a very few of the scriptures that support this doctrine. I have added italics for emphasis:
Ezra 7:18-19 (ESV)
18 Whatever seems good to you and your brothers to do with the rest of the silver and gold, you may do, according to the will of your God.
19 The vessels that have been given you for the service of the house of your God, you shall deliver before the God of Jerusalem.
Romans 9:14-24 (ESV)
14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means!
15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?”
20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”
21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—
24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
John 15:16 (ESV)
16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.
Proverbs 16:9 (ESV)
9 The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps.
[1]
[1] The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton: Standard Bible Society, 2001.
I pondered your analogy, that you "created" your children. Actually, however, you did not create them. Create means to make something out of nothing. Yet that is not what happened when you became pregnant. In fact, the Bible clearly states that God knits us in our mother's wombs[;)]...
So that analogy doesn't fit.[sm=sadquestion.gif]
I have no intention of arguing or getting into a debate. I will again ask you, that if you have information based upon scripture that tells me more about God, I truly, sincerely want to know. Since the only way God has given us to know about him is through scripture, we can only rely on that source for information...that is why I am asking for scripture to support each concept about Him.
Can we then have a congenial, informed, gracious conversation about God so that I can learn more about Him?[sm=icon_smile_bow.gif]
If not, that's ok. But you're welcome any time here in the Belfry.[:D]
shallbe
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