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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/7/2008 12:01:41 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1573
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quote:
If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago and a racist today.
-Thomas Sowell
The rules did not include African Americans. They were not made by us, they are not for us, and will never benefit us.
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/7/2008 12:57:49 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 537
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
quote:
If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago and a racist today.
-Thomas Sowell
The rules did not include African Americans. They were not made by us, they are not for us, and will never benefit us.
read the quote by thomas sowell again (a great black thinker by the way). He dosent say we should play by white rules, he says everyone should play by the same rules, and be judged by the same standards.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/7/2008 10:26:47 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3604
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
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I said...
quote:
I just wonder...how much more do "whites" have to bend over to appease the minority component? What more do we have to do before we are "absolved" of our "evil acts"?
to which you replied....
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We can't absolve you. How about you just hate that it happened.
and I replied....
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This is a very inflammitory statement and in grievious error. It...sounds like you are saying I hate the idea of racial equality? I would love racial equality but it...
will never happen until AA is long gone and dead.
I believed that what you stated assumed I hated racial equality and you reply...
quote:
I've learned that the word african american is inflammatory, your not african! If I say black, your not black, everything is inflammatory if that's what your looking for. AA is going, you think racism is gone?
I think there is an extreme communication gap here. The AA I refer to isn't african american. Its affirmitive action.
I would like a clarification of your statement...
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We can't absolve you. How about you just hate that it happened.
It sounds like you are saying I hated affirmitive action starting which I have never said. In fact I think in its time, it was a good thing. I just think its time has passed.
I will also clarify that I don't support the government getting involved like this in our lives, but I can see the good that was accomplished.
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Now I showed you where some of my families money is, you still did'nt believe it.
Your family owned slaves and had a plantation....??
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I am also pass wanting whites to correct this.
Whites ain't in controll
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Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Don Imus
Just to let you know, conservatism does not equate to racism even with Imus' stupid remarks aside.
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be judged by the same standards.
Something afirmitive action is 100% against
< Message edited by SonInMe1 -- 6/7/2008 10:32:53 PM >
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/7/2008 10:49:03 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2523
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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quote:
The rules did not include African Americans. They were not made by us, they are not for us, and will never benefit us.
OK, how much better off are blacks in America than in most countries in Africa? If it is so bad here for AA and they get no benefits here, the door is open for them to return to the motherland Perhaps Lincoln's plan to return the slaves to Africa was a good thing!
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 4:34:19 AM
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SuspenseWriter
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Just as an aside, I refuse to call black people "African-Americans". The phrase, as so many our good friends the liberals have coined, is fraught with stupidity. For instance, I have a friend who born in Capetown, South Africa. He's as white as Jim Carrey, but loves listing his race on various forms as "African-American." I mean, he IS, isn't he?
It's just silly. Black people are "black", just as I'm "white." As my old drill sargeant used to say (a black man, by the way) "it is what it is." And I agree. There's just no sense anyone getting their knickers in a twist over melanin amounts.
_____________________________
John Robinson
writer of suspense...obviously!
www.johnrobinsonbooks.com
http://www.johnrobinsonbooks.com/my-journal/
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 10:25:07 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 654
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Someone once opined that if they were giving away equality on one side of the street and superiority on the other, the person giving away equality would be as lonely as the old Maytag repair man.
The point is, nobody, if you really had a choice, wants equal opportunity. Most people want some kind of advantage. True, when you've been beat down for years, equality is a start, and maybe there are some who realize that's as good as it gets. But if we are honest, especially when we see others getting "bennies" we want them too.
So I think its natural, maybe not right, but natural, for a person to desire to be the "preferred candidate" when applying for a job, to ask for an upgraded seat or cabin when traveling although they didn't pay for it, to get into a prestigious school ahead of their more academically eligible peers. And most don't really care why they got the "break", and many have no problem going around bragging about getting treated special. But still some will never admit they EVER got a break in their lives, and therefore, nobody else should. I believe that some of these people, not all, but some people are being disingenuous when they claim every thing they've achieved they earned thorough hard work and sweat and nobody ever gave them anything. I know I've gotten my share of breaks. EVERY Christian should at least say it's but by the grace and mercy of God that we are what we are. Without HIM, we can do NOTHING.
But I digress.
So yeah, black folks are better off that they were in the past. And yes, we've got equal opportunity. But I guess what's kind of hard for us to articulate is, that we want to go beyond that and get the same type of preferential treatment that some of us assume white people get when we're not around. I remember the old Saturday Night Live sketch where Eddie Murphy disguises himself as a white man and gets on a bus and when the last black guy leaves, they start partying and when he goes to the bank to get a loan, the loan officer just gives him money, dosen't ask for an application or anything. I know that it's jokes, but there are some black folks in this country who think things like that really happen.
Like when some of us complain about too many blacks in the prison system. I'm convinced that most of the black folks in jail are guilty, but some blacks are convinced that there are white people guilty of the same crimes walking the street cause they got a break.
I don't know what the answer is. I dont' want to live in a society where a police is forced to give everyone driving over the speed limit a ticket just to be "fair", cause I've gotten my share of warnings, waaaaaayyyy more than my one or two "Driving While Black" pullovers. And I must admit, I kinda like being the "preferred candidate" every once in a while. I'll just have to learn to keep quite about it from now on.
- Julius
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 12:03:46 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 537
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
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quote:
I'll just have to learn to keep quite about it from now on.
Julius, please dont feel that way. If in any of our posts we gave the impression that this is what we (whites) want from blacks, then we were wrong in the way we made our arguements, so please forgive us for that.
quote:
So yeah, black folks are better off that they were in the past. And yes, we've got equal opportunity. But I guess what's kind of hard for us to articulate is, that we want to go beyond that and get the same type of preferential treatment that some of us assume white people get when we're not around
I will not say that there isnt an instance where an employer made a hiring choice based on skin color even now, but it simply isnt the norm anymore. I cant say that "white prefference" has helped me at all because i havent achieved much in my life, and that because i just didnt try hard.
quote:
I remember the old Saturday Night Live sketch where Eddie Murphy disguises himself as a white man and gets on a bus and when the last black guy leaves, they start partying and when he goes to the bank to get a loan, the loan officer just gives him money, dosen't ask for an application or anything. I know that it's jokes, but there are some black folks in this country who think things like that really happen
I think the reason for this is in no small part due to folks like jesse jackson, al sharpton and farrakhan (however you spell his name) who's only industry is black resentment and it pays them well.
quote:
So I think its natural, maybe not right, but natural, for a person to desire to be the "preferred candidate" when applying for a job, to ask for an upgraded seat or cabin when traveling although they didn't pay for it, to get into a prestigious school ahead of their more academically eligible peers
My problem with AA is that it is actually soft racism against blacks in that it says that blacks need a hand because they cant get there on their own merit, their not good enough, not smart enough. You see, what white liberals believe is that you need them to get to the "promised land", conservative's think you can get there on your own.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 1:58:11 PM
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saved9201
Posts: 654
Joined: 4/15/2005
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ORIGINAL: HisFish
quote:
I'll just have to learn to keep quite about it from now on.
quote:
Julius, please dont feel that way. If in any of our posts we gave the impression that this is what we (whites) want from blacks, then we were wrong in the way we made our arguements, so please forgive us for that.
No need to apologize. My point I was making was that preferential treatment happens all the time and not all the time it's because of race. Being "Retired Army" gets me a lot of extra benefits. I've gotten upgrades in cars and airline seats (all the way to first class once) because I'm 6'5". I was admitted to the University of Texas school of engineering in 1972, prior to affirmative action, although my grades and test scores weren't outstanding. The dean told me since I had gone to one of the top high schools in Texas and had taken challenging courses, he thought I could handle the curriculum at UT. He was dead wrong.  Which is why I ended up in the Army.
But when certain people flaunt these bennies, it can cause resentment. Affirmative Action is one of these extra benefits that is kinda "in your face." It's like, "YOU'RE GETTING THIS BENEFIT BECAUSE YOU'RE BLACK." I can understand why some whites, some of whom may have gotten extra benefits all their lives, could still resent this initiative. I can't understand why blacks like Ward Connerly are so against it, however. When the flight attendant discreetly invited me to first class, had others found out why I was being upgraded, some in coach who had no problem with legroom may have sympathized with my predicament and felt glad for my good fortune. However, some both in coach and in first class, would resent my getting a benefit I didn't deserve. Giving someone something they need but don't deserve? Isn't that called grace?
Now affirmative action is like the airline having a state policy, "HEY ALL YOU SHORT PEOPLE! FORGET ABOUT FIRST CLASS CAUSE THAT'S FOR PEOPLE 6'5" AND OVER!", ya think there would have been MORE resentment if that were the case?
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I will not say that there isnt an instance where an employer made a hiring choice based on skin color even now, but it simply isnt the norm anymore. I cant say that "white prefference" has helped me at all because i havent achieved much in my life, and that because i just didnt try hard.
It doesn't matter. What matters is the perception that there is "white preference." When someone perceives there is white perference, due to statistics, reality, rumor or just sour grapes, there is a demand, NOT for justice, but for "black preference."
quote:
I think the reason for this is in no small part due to folks like jesse jackson, al sharpton and farrakhan (however you spell his name) who's only industry is black resentment and it pays them well.
I think the main reason that blacks believe whites get preferential treatment is because in many cases they do. But I suspect this is rarely because they're white, but that's the perception. Some get into Ivy League schools due to being the sons and daughters of past alumni (legacies). Some whites own their own businesses and hire and promote family and friends. Some whites are just better connected to the movers and shakers than blacks are. But that's changing as we learn to play the game. I don't want to sound stereotypical, but a lot of networking goes on at golf courses and we just started playing golf in numbers a relative few years ago. Some of us prefer hanging around our own people, joining our own fraternities, clubs and churches. Problem is, most of these afro-centric groups, sadly this includes the churches, are just social clubs and few of these people or groups has much influence economically or politically, at least that they're willing to share to help their members move up the ladder of success. Look at the effect Obama's former church has had on his career. Yes, they may do some things in the "community" for the "downtroden", but they do little to address or to even recognize the kid who achieves academically and desires to excel.
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My problem with AA is that it is actually soft racism against blacks in that it says that blacks need a hand because they cant get there on their own merit, their not good enough, not smart enough. You see, what white liberals believe is that you need them to get to the "promised land", conservative's think you can get there on your own.
The truth is, that many of us do have to work harder, especially those who don't have the economic resources or connections some whites are perceived to have. Some don't think that's fair, so just give us the perceived outcome of the perceived benefit and we'll call it even. Another problem is that some of us, and I'm talking about other blacks, are so jealous and resentful of one another achieving that we tend to burn bridges when we make it to the top instead of mentoring and pulling up others. It's far too much of the "I got mines so you get yours," mentality. Some blacks who have achieved actually treat their black subordinates worse in order to prove to the whites who they feel beholden to, that they don't favor blacks over whites. Many of the immigrants have been able to overcome adversity and achieve because they helped one another and didn't always demand that the white man give them something. But I digress.
- Julius
< Message edited by saved9201 -- 6/8/2008 2:05:33 PM >
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 2:28:33 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3745
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mapachito13
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
We have repented. We are taking steps to correct past wrongs and to assure that they don't happen again. Please, we are Christians here in this forum. Let's act like Christians.
That's what AA is all about!
Sin has consequence. The consequence of man's sin is death. Jesus died on the cross as another consequence. Why didn't God just forgive us and that was that. Why did He have to send His Own Son to die to pay the price for OUR trangression? Because JUSTICE along with His infinite mercy are the heart of the law.
What's un-Christian about that?
Are you saying we can we can legislate morality?
John
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 5:38:56 PM
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devinevessel
Posts: 280
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
When has it been ok for vile language to come from the pulpit? These men are false prophets, and does not take a much Biblical knowledge to see this fact.
My thoughts exactly.
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U-C-L-A Fight!Fight!Fight!
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 5:41:44 PM
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devinevessel
Posts: 280
Joined: 8/28/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
I attend a predominantly white church, and last week, Memorial Day weekend, we had a guest pastor who began his sermon with a joke:
Chelsea Clinton asked a marine was he afraid of being in Iraq. The marine replied, "The only thing I'm afraid of is, Osama, Obama and yo' mama!"
He then went on about how brave John McCain was during his captivity.
He peppered his "sermon" with several quotes from McCain. More quotes from McCain than from the bible.
Like I said before, I've also heard the following from the pulpit:
"I know the bible says to pray for the president. I'm praying for him alright, praying that a bullet hits his skull"
Bill Clinton was president at the time.
"If some of you are thinking of voting for a democrat, you'd better get down to the altar and get right with God."
Then there are the famous Christian Coalition "voter guides" that are still around, by the way, as some churches have taken it upon themselves to publish their own. The ones I've seen are nothing but republican propaganda.
So, it goes both ways, but no doubt some of you feel that because the GOP stands for God's ONLY Party, then it's justified when republicanism is preached from the pulpit.
Just like Colonel Oliver North's patriotism wasn't challenged when he said of sitting president Bill Clinton, "He's not MY commander in chief."
- Julius
That line bothers me and I have heard this before. If someone wants to vote Democrat or register as a Democrat (gasp!) he or she should be able to do so without feeling condemned. This is a free country.
_____________________________
U-C-L-A Fight!Fight!Fight!
Check out my blog
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 6:09:22 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2523
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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Nothing annoys me more more than the entitlement and vicitim mentalities. I have a progressive genetic disorder that has me on disability. The disorder causes tumors to grow on nerve endings and I live in constant low-level pain. Sometimes the pain is so severe it feels as if I have been stabbed with a knife,
I had polio as a child and it is only by the grace of God that I can walk. I suffered emotional, physical, and sexual abuse at the hands of my missionary father.
Each day is a gift from God. He has given me healing over the abuse of my father. My passion is prison ministry and this allows me to share the good news with others that have also been abused.
Too many see themselves as victims. Victims of their past. Victims of bad luck. Vicitims of a system that can be unfair, But life is unfair. But God is good. We need to operate in the goodness He has given us and do what we can to help others overcome their obstacles.
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 8:01:22 PM
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HisFish
Posts: 537
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: Rocky mountain way
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
Nothing annoys me more more than the entitlement and vicitim mentalities. I have a progressive genetic disorder that has me on disability. The disorder causes tumors to grow on nerve endings and I live in constant low-level pain. Sometimes the pain is so severe it feels as if I have been stabbed with a knife,
I had polio as a child and it is only by the grace of God that I can walk. I suffered emotional, physical, and sexual abuse at the hands of my missionary father.
Each day is a gift from God. He has given me healing over the abuse of my father. My passion is prison ministry and this allows me to share the good news with others that have also been abused.
Too many see themselves as victims. Victims of their past. Victims of bad luck. Vicitims of a system that can be unfair, But life is unfair. But God is good. We need to operate in the goodness He has given us and do what we can to help others overcome their obstacles.
What an awesome testimony Colliefan, only by His grace could you even say that.
_____________________________
The theology of the present aims at the deification of man, but the truth of all time
magnifies God . C. H. Spurgeon
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 8:30:33 PM
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tracydolls
Posts: 1573
Joined: 3/30/2008
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quote:
OK, how much better off are blacks in America than in most countries in Africa? If it is so bad here for AA and they get no benefits here, the door is open for them to return to the motherland Perhaps Lincoln's plan to return the slaves to Africa was a good thing!
collie, I think on another thread a while ago, I said fine let's all go to Africa, we would like all the $ made from rice, tobacco, and cotton, plus all our inventions which includes ALMOST everything, and all things taken from Africa. diamonds, oil, rubber, etc, the zoo animals. And all black people. You said not all would go, I said I would'nt ask.
but you can come with us too, since ALL people come from Africa.
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 9:14:26 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2523
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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quote:
but you can come with us too, since ALL people come from Africa.
Despise the heat and was one reason I moved from Florida to NC.. My mom jokes that my thermostat was broken in the jungles of Mexico. She has told me there was always pools of sweat under my hammock. Got so hot the thermometer broke.
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 9:26:21 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2523
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
Status: offline
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Tracey,
Look at all the unrest in a good many of the countries in Africa. Are white people somehow responsible? Look at the Big Easy: generations of being black run. Are white people responsible for its corruption?
Look at the DC school district: massive monies being spent and is black run, yet is a dismal failure. Are white people responsible for its failure?
Here in NC a rep was caught misapropriating government money from her "non-profit" foundation. Did she accept responsibilty? Nope, whe blamed, white people.
I am tired of the blame game. The victim mentality. Not taking responsibility for one's actions. The sense of entitlement. ........
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 9:52:41 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3745
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: devinevessel
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
I attend a predominantly white church, and last week, Memorial Day weekend, we had a guest pastor who began his sermon with a joke:
Chelsea Clinton asked a marine was he afraid of being in Iraq. The marine replied, "The only thing I'm afraid of is, Osama, Obama and yo' mama!"
He then went on about how brave John McCain was during his captivity.
He peppered his "sermon" with several quotes from McCain. More quotes from McCain than from the bible.
Like I said before, I've also heard the following from the pulpit:
"I know the bible says to pray for the president. I'm praying for him alright, praying that a bullet hits his skull"
Bill Clinton was president at the time.
"If some of you are thinking of voting for a democrat, you'd better get down to the altar and get right with God."
Then there are the famous Christian Coalition "voter guides" that are still around, by the way, as some churches have taken it upon themselves to publish their own. The ones I've seen are nothing but republican propaganda.
So, it goes both ways, but no doubt some of you feel that because the GOP stands for God's ONLY Party, then it's justified when republicanism is preached from the pulpit.
Just like Colonel Oliver North's patriotism wasn't challenged when he said of sitting president Bill Clinton, "He's not MY commander in chief."
- Julius
That line bothers me and I have heard this before. If someone wants to vote Democrat or register as a Democrat (gasp!) he or she should be able to do so without feeling condemned. This is a free country.
So one is free to point out the Democratic party supports certain evil points of view...
John
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 10:00:08 PM
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SonInMe1
Posts: 3604
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: my mom by God
Status: offline
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Life is like our relationship with God, its personal.
When someone comes to your church and says your actions and your life depends on what others do to you? They are lieing and staright from satan.
The blame game might work for politicians but for...pastors? Christianity is all about God and depending on Him...when did it turn into dependence on government??
There is absolutly no doubt there is a feeling in the minority community that white people are to blame for their plight. That being white is some sort of "easy button".
I was talking to a young man wanting to go into business for himself the other day. He said because he was not white doors wouldn't be open for him...and then wnet on to say because his employer in his other job, who is white, is losing clients because he is cutting corners.
I don't care what color you are, if you do good work for me, you will always have a job and I think most people think the same. Sure you have a few fools out there, but they are the exception, not the rule.
If you don't get the job the first thing you should examine isn't your race...its what faults you might have.
< Message edited by SonInMe1 -- 6/8/2008 10:06:17 PM >
_____________________________
You adulterous people, don't you know that friendship with the world is hatred toward God? Anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/8/2008 10:27:35 PM
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devinevessel
Posts: 280
Joined: 8/28/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: devinevessel
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
I attend a predominantly white church, and last week, Memorial Day weekend, we had a guest pastor who began his sermon with a joke:
Chelsea Clinton asked a marine was he afraid of being in Iraq. The marine replied, "The only thing I'm afraid of is, Osama, Obama and yo' mama!"
He then went on about how brave John McCain was during his captivity.
He peppered his "sermon" with several quotes from McCain. More quotes from McCain than from the bible.
Like I said before, I've also heard the following from the pulpit:
"I know the bible says to pray for the president. I'm praying for him alright, praying that a bullet hits his skull"
Bill Clinton was president at the time.
"If some of you are thinking of voting for a democrat, you'd better get down to the altar and get right with God."
Then there are the famous Christian Coalition "voter guides" that are still around, by the way, as some churches have taken it upon themselves to publish their own. The ones I've seen are nothing but republican propaganda.
So, it goes both ways, but no doubt some of you feel that because the GOP stands for God's ONLY Party, then it's justified when republicanism is preached from the pulpit.
Just like Colonel Oliver North's patriotism wasn't challenged when he said of sitting president Bill Clinton, "He's not MY commander in chief."
- Julius
That line bothers me and I have heard this before. If someone wants to vote Democrat or register as a Democrat (gasp!) he or she should be able to do so without feeling condemned. This is a free country.
So one is free to point out the Democratic party supports certain evil points of view...
John
People are free to do so. It's just that if a person wants to vote for a democrat than that is their decision and shouldn't be frowned upon. Same case if a person wants to vote for a republican.
But back to the OP I don't think the politicking should have been done from the pulpit. As some one mentioned earlier in this thread it was devisive.
_____________________________
U-C-L-A Fight!Fight!Fight!
Check out my blog
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RE: Trinity's latest sermon - 6/9/2008 12:13:26 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3745
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: devinevessel
People are free to do so. It's just that if a person wants to vote for a democrat than that is their decision and shouldn't be frowned upon.
On what grounds should in not be frowned upon? It's my dec | | | |
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It was all just a load of hooey and I'm truly surprised he hasn't been removed from the pulpit by the Catholic church if this is habitual behavior.