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Power of the Holy Spirit? - 5/30/2008 6:07:56 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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I have a question. Why don't people still have the power to heal/raise the dead/cast out demons etc. I am not talking about the people that fake heal, I mean really heal. Do we as Christians have that authority? Were the Apostles and Jesus the only ones who had this authority? I do not find any other mention of anyone else doing this other than the apostles. And apostles can't exist now so do we have authority to do this? and if so why can't anyone?
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"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 5/30/2008 6:23:37 PM
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Ephesians4_32
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As far as I know, only the Apostles and Christ performed those miracles, but some people claim that the gifts didn't cease until the time of Consantine.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 5/30/2008 8:19:11 PM
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trumpeter4Jesus
Posts: 21
Joined: 11/10/2007
From: Iowa
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I have a question. Why don't people still have the power to heal/raise the dead/cast out demons etc. I am not talking about the people that fake heal, I mean really heal. Do we as Christians have that authority? Were the Apostles and Jesus the only ones who had this authority? I do not find any other mention of anyone else doing this other than the apostles. And apostles can't exist now so do we have authority to do this? and if so why can't anyone?
The answer to your question is they still do. We have had healing services at our church (Four Square Gospel) and the people that have come to heal have shared numerous stories about the healings/raising from the dead that they have witnessed. We also have personal testimonies of healings among members of our church. I believe the Great Commission did not just apply to the early believers, but the church today in general has shyed away from this aspect of ministry. Having the power to heal, etc. requires a degree of faith that most Christians do not possess.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 5/31/2008 1:01:57 AM
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AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 216
Joined: 4/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: trumpeter4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I have a question. Why don't people still have the power to heal/raise the dead/cast out demons etc. I am not talking about the people that fake heal, I mean really heal. Do we as Christians have that authority? Were the Apostles and Jesus the only ones who had this authority? I do not find any other mention of anyone else doing this other than the apostles. And apostles can't exist now so do we have authority to do this? and if so why can't anyone?
The answer to your question is they still do. We have had healing services at our church (Four Square Gospel) and the people that have come to heal have shared numerous stories about the healings/raising from the dead that they have witnessed. We also have personal testimonies of healings among members of our church. I believe the Great Commission did not just apply to the early believers, but the church today in general has shyed away from this aspect of ministry. Having the power to heal, etc. requires a degree of faith that most Christians do not possess.
If someone actually healed someone or raised someone from the dead don't you think everyone would hear about it. I mean if you raised someone from the dead it would be all over the news. Just because someone says they have seen and have done it, doesn't make it true. 60 minutes busted tons of churches who were claiming to heal people. Also "The Great Commission" wasn't healing it was sharing the Gospel.
< Message edited by AboundinginHisGrace -- 5/31/2008 1:08:03 AM >
_____________________________
"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 5/31/2008 1:31:39 AM
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BLOGMANN
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hello abounding. we don't need these miracles today. we have the Bible. there were a few people raised from the dead in the o.t. but not many. actually scarcely a few. how many people were raised from the dead during Jesus' life that Jesus didn't raise? but listen to this. i was dead and now i'm raised to life in Christ Jesus. amazing grace huh?
w/ Christ's love, blogmann
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 5/31/2008 4:19:23 AM
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pmilst
Posts: 60
Joined: 2/22/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: trumpeter4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I have a question. Why don't people still have the power to heal/raise the dead/cast out demons etc. I am not talking about the people that fake heal, I mean really heal. Do we as Christians have that authority? Were the Apostles and Jesus the only ones who had this authority? I do not find any other mention of anyone else doing this other than the apostles. And apostles can't exist now so do we have authority to do this? and if so why can't anyone?
The answer to your question is they still do. We have had healing services at our church (Four Square Gospel) and the people that have come to heal have shared numerous stories about the healings/raising from the dead that they have witnessed. We also have personal testimonies of healings among members of our church. I believe the Great Commission did not just apply to the early believers, but the church today in general has shyed away from this aspect of ministry. Having the power to heal, etc. requires a degree of faith that most Christians do not possess.
If someone actually healed someone or raised someone from the dead don't you think everyone would hear about it. I mean if you raised someone from the dead it would be all over the news. Just because someone says they have seen and have done it, doesn't make it true. 60 minutes busted tons of churches who were claiming to heal people. Also "The Great Commission" wasn't healing it was sharing the Gospel.
His grace, I agree that you do not see massive healing or the miraculous over all of christianity. But why would God allow the miraculous (not just healing) in the time of Noah, Moses, Joshua, Elijah, Elisha, Jesus and the Apostles, and the Two witnesses of the tribulation, but yet, we do not want to concede the possibility of miraculous healing today. Multiple times in the new testament gospels, healing and other miracles were performed to confirm the message of the one carrying the gospel. In otherwords, God allowed the outstanding use of power by the gospel messenger to reinforce the message of the disciple or Jesus himself. I hold to the belief that if God chooses to endow an individual with miraculous power-- he can do so, usually for the purpose of validating the message of the one who carries the gospel. There will be those who will go to 1 Cor. 13: 8 to validate the belief of some gifts ceasing, but in context v. 8 is attached to 1 Cor. 13: 11-12, all (the gifts) will continue as long as we "look through a glass darkly", one day we will not need them when we see Jesus face to face. Another question, why would Jesus the head of the church (the body of Christ) cut off one of the arms or legs (the gifts)? Christ is not at war with himself, He needs all the spiritual weapons available when He wants to dispatch their use. The question is not whether certain gifts have ceased, but when the Head of the Church wants to use these gifts. 1 Cor. chapters 11 and 12 reinforce this belief.
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1 Cor. 2: 9-10 "Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit..."
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 5/31/2008 5:10:29 AM
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RJR_fan
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quote:
Why don't people still have the power to heal/raise the dead/cast out demons etc.
A lot of the miraculous happens on the front lines, the leading/bleeding edge of the Christian advance. God is not obligated to provide citizens of the comfort zone with carnival tricks for their amusement. Jesus refused to work miracles when the Pharisees "demanded a sign."
Transition periods in my life have often been surrounded by tokens of God's deep involvement. Most of life, however, is routine. Faithfulness in small things is a big thing.
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The future has never been shaped by majorities but rather by dedicated minorities. And free men do not wait for the future; they create it. RJR
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 5/31/2008 9:09:10 AM
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4IMPersuaded
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RJR_fan
A lot of the miraculous happens on the front lines, the leading/bleeding edge of the Christian advance. God is not obligated to provide citizens of the comfort zone with carnival tricks for their amusement. Jesus refused to work miracles when the Pharisees "demanded a sign."
Transition periods in my life have often been surrounded by tokens of God's deep involvement. Most of life, however, is routine. Faithfulness in small things is a big thing.
Interesting point. I think, too, that the miraculous happens, but it is just easier for a cynical society to explain it away. I work in the medical field and I see rare occasions where a patient's recovery is unexplainable-- that doesn't make the news. It is just chalked up to "one of those things", but those of us who know Christ know from whence comes our help in times of trouble
BTW-- I come from a very non-charismatic background and I am personally aware of at least one individual who has been given the Spirit of healing at a young girl's bedside. He gives God the glory.
< Message edited by 4IMPersuaded -- 5/31/2008 9:15:56 AM >
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 5/31/2008 10:36:54 AM
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makarizo
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When Jesus went to His hometown Nazareth, not many miracles were performed, not a lot of healing, no great events, like feeding 5000, all because of a lack of faith.
think about this... if Jesus wanted to heal someone Nazareth, is it safe to say that He couldn't? like He didn't have the ability?.....He just didn't have the power of the Holy Spirit is not an accurate assessment.
if we had just an eansy bit of faith, we would say to that tree "be uprooted, and cast into the sea" and it would happen right before our very eyes.
you either believe, or you don't believe that.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 5/31/2008 10:56:29 AM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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No matter how much faith you have if you command a tree to get up and walk it will not. The only way it would do that is if some way that was to glorify God. God uses us, we don't use God. Also if you look the only time Christ healed someone it was for a reason not just because He wanted them not be sick anymore it was always to bring people to know Him.
_____________________________
"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/1/2008 11:22:05 AM
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makarizo
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
No matter how much faith you have if you command a tree to get up and walk it will not. The only way it would do that is if some way that was to glorify God. God uses us, we don't use God. Also if you look the only time Christ healed someone it was for a reason not just because He wanted them not be sick anymore it was always to bring people to know Him.
Luk 17:6 And the Lord said, " If you had faith like a mustard seed, you would say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and be planted in the sea'; and it would obey you.
Aboundingin..... : what I say is in the bible,,..... what you say isn't ......where is the verse??????????
Mar 6:5 And He could do no miracle there except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.
Mar 6:6 And He wondered at their unbelief. And He was going around the villages teaching.
"no matter how much faith you have" assumes that you know what having a lot of faith is like.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/1/2008 9:14:01 PM
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trumpeter4Jesus
Posts: 21
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From: Iowa
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In Cambodia they have seen every miracle that was performed in the book of Acts. Perhaps the United States is much like Nazareth during Jesus' time on earth. Of course, the greatest miracle and the only one, in my opinion, that really matters is that people are still giving their lives to Christ. How can any other miracle compare to that? I am a miracle of the Holy Spirit because I acknowledge Jesus Christ as my Savior!
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/1/2008 9:35:34 PM
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SuspenseWriter
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I've done missions work in Third-World countries, and have seen numerous miracles...and I don't use the term lightly. I've seen God take a baby born with no eyes and create them in her head, inside the space of a minute, while the rest our team just watched in awe and praised Him. I've seen Him take a man who'd been horribly disfigured in a fire and give him skin like a child, including a new face. I've seen vicious animals grow meek at the mention of Jesus' Name. And I've seen the dead raised...one man in particular had been dead two days, and in that jungle heat, he sure smelled like it.
I know this gives the cessationists fits; when we told some some good friends of ours (Baptists) some of what we've seen over the years, they said obviously it was the devil doing it. When I pointed out these miracles led to large numbers of those same people getting saved, they again attributed it to the devil (better that, I guess, than to admit their theology might need tweaking).
So why don't we see more of these things in the US? I don't know. The only variable might be is in how childlike the faith of these villagers was...compared to our disinclination to believe the fact there's never been a "day of miracles;" only a God of them.
And His word says He changes not.
< Message edited by SuspenseWriter -- 6/1/2008 9:42:03 PM >
_____________________________
John Robinson
writer of suspense...obviously!
www.johnrobinsonbooks.com
http://www.johnrobinsonbooks.com/my-journal/
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/1/2008 10:36:20 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
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First off, I would like to apologize for coming off jerkish, it is hard to get points across on the internet without sounding very blunt :). So please forgive me. But here is the verse i was using for my reference. 1 john 5:14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will. He hears us. ------ True faith, by Christ's definition, always involves surrender to the will of God. You have to search the scriptures and see what Christ is saying. You can't just take out one verse and say there it is.
< Message edited by AboundinginHisGrace -- 6/1/2008 11:17:37 PM >
_____________________________
"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/1/2008 11:00:04 PM
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Carleejoan
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My husband, myself and my church totally believe in healing yet God chose not to heal him this time and he's in heaven now. I do struggle with losing him but there was a peace in his room and we felt the presence of the Holy Spirit there in a real way. God in his providence seems to still make the decisions and it's hard to understand why some are not healed. Sometimes I've questioned my own faith as the first my husband had cancer I was quite adamant in knowing he wasn't going to die then but that he many more years and that was in 1986. This cancer this last time was a recurrance the Oncologists said but we still felt "no problem God can heal this too." When the test results still showed cancer returning I found it discouraging and wondered if my faith waivered then. My husband shared his faith openly to big burley coworkers from his place of work and people he'd met at his various hobby websites over the internet. I know for sure he lead one man to the Lord 3 years ago. How he suffered and his attitude amazed people as he trusted God and loved God to the very end. In spite of losing my dear husband whom I miss beyond words I still believe strongly in healing and deliverance. I've read my journaling and see I was trusting God for healing too. God is the devine designer of our lives- when they begin and when the end.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 8:48:01 AM
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JimboFletch
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A lot of today's lack of power is, IMO, due to excessive focus on gifts, effects, and the Holy Spirit than on Jesus. Where the spotlight is on the Holy Spirit, He probably isn't there since His ministry is to glorify the Savior, not Himself.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 9:51:10 AM
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earthless
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From: where bbq pigeons roast....
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A wicked generations seeks signs and wonders..
Remember Satan and the demonic can perform the above....
In the last days there will not be great revival, but a falling away from the true faith.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 12:30:26 PM
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EJA
Posts: 54
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I have a question. Why don't people still have the power to heal/raise the dead/cast out demons etc...Were the Apostles and Jesus the only ones who had this authority? I do not find any other mention of anyone else doing this other than the apostles.
Acts 6:8
And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
Stephen was not an apostle, yet he did miracles.
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 3:02:24 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 216
Joined: 4/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RyansWife
God does not change. He is still The Miracle Worker. Recently watched a lady raised from the dead through prayer on Godtube. You can see the ABC News Report here
http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=93bbc7d4792fff6a7891&page=1&viewtype=&category=mvd
I wouldn't necessarily say that is being raised from the dead....
_____________________________
"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 3:04:48 PM
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AboundinginHisGrace
Posts: 216
Joined: 4/28/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
A lot of today's lack of power is, IMO, due to excessive focus on gifts, effects, and the Holy Spirit than on Jesus. Where the spotlight is on the Holy Spirit, He probably isn't there since His ministry is to glorify the Savior, not Himself.
I totally agree that way too many people focus on the holy spirit. The holy spirit always points to Jesus not itself (I know they are all one but you know what I mean). Most of the works based denominations use the Holy Spirit a lot.
_____________________________
"What a mercy it is that it is not your hold of Christ that saves you, but his hold of you." - Spurgeon
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 3:42:35 PM
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visus
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i went to a convention about a week ago, and i saw persons being healed of cataracts, asthma, cancers, HIV, and about 40 women who were called up to the altar were immediately healed of breast lumps. These women along with those with the cataracts were able to testify immediately about disappearance of the lumps and clear vision.
One child who was born blind recieve her sight.
From the previous convention which is an annual event many testified.
One lady who came in a wheel chair was healed and was able to push the reverend in the very chair.
My question to those who doubt is if satan goes around healing persons who are bound by devils wouldn't that be a kingdom which is divided and soon to fall?
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 4:52:53 PM
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bluegravel
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quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
quote:
ORIGINAL: trumpeter4Jesus
quote:
ORIGINAL: AboundinginHisGrace
I have a question. Why don't people still have the power to heal/raise the dead/cast out demons etc. I am not talking about the people that fake heal, I mean really heal. Do we as Christians have that authority? Were the Apostles and Jesus the only ones who had this authority? I do not find any other mention of anyone else doing this other than the apostles. And apostles can't exist now so do we have authority to do this? and if so why can't anyone?
The answer to your question is they still do. We have had healing services at our church (Four Square Gospel) and the people that have come to heal have shared numerous stories about the healings/raising from the dead that they have witnessed. We also have personal testimonies of healings among members of our church. I believe the Great Commission did not just apply to the early believers, but the church today in general has shyed away from this aspect of ministry. Having the power to heal, etc. requires a degree of faith that most Christians do not possess.
If someone actually healed someone or raised someone from the dead don't you think everyone would hear about it. I mean if you raised someone from the dead it would be all over the news. Just because someone says they have seen and have done it, doesn't make it true. 60 minutes busted tons of churches who were claiming to heal people. Also "The Great Commission" wasn't healing it was sharing the Gospel.
quote:
If someone actually healed someone or raised someone from the dead don't you think everyone would hear about it. I mean if you raised someone from the dead it would be all over the news. Just because someone says they have seen and have done it, doesn't make it true. 60 minutes busted tons of churches who were claiming to heal people. Also "The Great Commission" wasn't healing it was sharing the Gospel.
< Message edited by AboundinginHisGrace -- 5/31/2008 1:08:03 AM >
_____________________________
I am not sure it would be all over the news..........what if someone were raised from the dead in a part of the world where they do not have 'all over the news' news? I am not hung up on the healing stuff - I have problems with it for sure, but I think it possible........but I have always thought salvation to be the bigger miracle. Mind you, I have seen a few healings - real ones - but I don't believe in the "IN JESUS NAME" stuff.
As someone once said......"There are more things under heaven and earth......" We don't know everything - I believe in God, not healings or healing ministries - like the blind man said" I don't know. All I know is that I was blind and now I see."
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 5:43:52 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: visus
My question to those who doubt is if satan goes around healing persons who are bound by devils wouldn't that be a kingdom which is divided and soon to fall?
Find and read The Beautiful Side of Evil, written by a woman who once worked with a "healer" by the "power of Jesus." When someone performs miracles by Jesus, she has learned to ask, "Which Jesus.?"
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RE: Power of the Holy Spirit? - 6/2/2008 6:03:50 PM
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earthless
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From: where bbq pigeons roast....
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Many use the name 'Jesus' by who are they talking about?
Many use the word and have poured a different definition/meaning/person to it.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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