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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 5:21:52 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Heavendweller
quote:
Heavendweller
On one condition, of course, that they be PRACTICING sinners only.
MrFribbles
Do you never sin?
Actually, I just had a huge party with all kinds of PRACTICING sin taking place, drunkeness, drug taking, even a strip teaser showed up! And we were a bunch of happy, spirit-filled Christians.
Now where did I put that bong anyhow? Gotta go soon. Gotta cop a deal with the local crack supplier. I'm runnin' low.
And then it's off to the local novelties shop. Then from there, a stop at the local bar, where a buzz is anticipated. And with the gas prices these days, I hope to hang with the gang and siphon a few gallons later tonight. I'll make sure to do it in the rich section of town where it won't affect them.
Sin, me? Nah, not in the least Mr. Fribbles!
Heavendweller
Nothing wrong with any of that, Heavendweller, as long as you have the right heart attitude!  After all, it's what's inside that matters, not what people see!
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 5:54:53 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Nothing wrong with any of that, Heavendweller, as long as you have the right heart attitude! After all, it's what's inside that matters, not what people see!
And the Apostle Paul said he became all things to all men, that he might win some to Christ. Moses David of the Children of God cult used that verse to promote his gospel of promiscuity. "Flirty fishies" they were called. Do whatever it takes to bring people to Christ. Even sin if necessary. The Way Ministry was also good at that. They used to go to pool halls and bars and get drunk, while supposedly witnessing for Christ. And smoking pot was ok to. And premarital sex was ok. They believed that it doesn't matter what we do in the flesh, only in the spirit because the flesh is of no avail. Good to know these cults phased out for the most part. But alas, others have replaced them.
Oh, it was lots 'o' fun bumping into these types.
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 6:16:21 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 5238
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
So I can invite them, but they have to convert before the can actually attend.
Joe: I'm finding these discussions about your religion interesting. But frankly, sometimes I'm not so sure you aren't just making some of thjis up."
Me: "Don't take my word for it. Pastor RC is bringing a another stirring message on the teachings of Jesus this Sunday. Let me come by and pick you up on the way. And, Harlot can come along, too."
Joe: "Sounds kinda interesting."
Me: "But you'll have to convert first."
Joe: "Pardon?"
Me: "And Harlot. She'll have to convert, too."
Joe: "So you invite me to come to church to learn more about Jesus, but I have to convert first. "
Cow, surely you see what I was talking about when I was referrencing the fact that it is the individuals responsibility to share Jesus.
Scripture plainly states that it is the Chruches responsibility to teach Christians to do the work of the ministry (spread the gospel).
Church by definition is a gathering of the Saints.
Saints by definition are individuals that are saved.
These individuals are known by the fact that they do not walk (live in sin).
Well that is about as sinple as I can make it.
Thanks
RC
edited to remove "Snarkyness"
< Message edited by rcjames -- 6/10/2008 6:30:09 PM >
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/10/2008 9:40:10 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4458
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
ORIGINAL: Qtman
quote:
I have gone over this scenerio before, and bluntly, I would not attend a place that welcomes as members people in open, continued sin. This does make it difficult to find places of worship, but they are out here.
I have no problem with this post. However I point out it has not been shown the couple involved have or are continuing to sin. So far it's all speculation.
quote:
The fact is that, regarding those allowed to be members, I trust the leaders of the place of worship I attend. If such a thought would ever cross my mind regarding members, it would be irrelevant because of that trust.
Part of the problem with the idea of sin allowed to be lived out in the community is that no one wears a badge identifying themselves as members or non-members. Therefore, if open sin is continuously practiced among those who are mere attenders, who knows which ones are members and which are attenders?
When someone in open, deliberate sin begins to attend, then continues to attend without repentance, something is wrong...a lot of things are wrong.
This post however, I have serious problem with. Even Jesus Himself talked to and witnessed to sinners. IMHO if they are in church they are being exposed to the Gospel. I know of no-one that was saved without having first been exposed to the Gospel of Christ. Some just take longer than others.
The bible says PUT AWAY(that means remove) a person who doesn't repent... Which of course is part of a process that has two purposes... To smack the back slider upside the head and or to remove those who truly don't wish to repent and have some evil agenda in regards to attending church... I don't believe the following is an option....
1 Corinthians 5
9. I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10. Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13. But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
John
Oh, John! Don't you know that not everybody has some of those old musty verses in their Bibles??? Why, I tore that page out of mine! 
Anyway, don't bother me with silly "facts" about what the Bible says right now. I'm busy looking in my Bible for four or so words I can take out of context and twist into what I want them to say! Maybe something in 1 Thessalonians 4.
Oh, good, I found it...verse 10..."we urge you...increase more and more..." So I gotta to to the buffet for lunch today! 
I know there are subjects in the Word that can be seen from different ways, but the above is so crystal clear... What's funny is that the same people who don't believe people should be removed from church are puzzled by homosexual bishops and lesbian ministers....
John
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/11/2008 12:20:54 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 11535
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
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quote:
However, assuming someone is living in serious sin of any kind would go under the category of wrongly judging your brother/sister.
This is exactly what I have been saying. Perhaps I have not been making myself clear.
I have not once advocated allowing sin to enter the church--although unless one has a church full of pugs (who are pure in heart) I do not see how it would be avoided . Any collection of humans is going to have sin, because humans are...human. But that does not mean I believe in winking at sin, because I do not.
But I do not see any evidence of sin in the OP.
The OP has been talking to the couple, but has not seen fit to ask questions that would quell her fears (like "Our anniversary is February 3rd--when is yours?" or "We have been married X years--how long have you been married?"). These, to me, seem to be very basic "getting to know you" questions.
The couple has been speaking with the pastor. Every church I have ever been a part of collected vitals about birthdays, Baptisms, marriages, so I cannot imagine a pastor who would not have gleaned such information. It is his business to deal with unmarried couples who are living in sin, and if he cannot be trusted to do this, the OP needs to find a new church where the pastor is trustworthy.
But speculating about people who come into one's church is gossip, plain and simple. And gossip is destructive and a sin.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/11/2008 12:56:54 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
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Here's an update...
The couple in question is in fact NOT married, but cohabitating, and they are meeting with the pastor today to discuss membership.
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/11/2008 1:16:55 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 11535
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
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That changes the situation considerably, but does not change my response in any way.
If the pastor does not tell them to repent, I certainly hope you will be looking for a new church.
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/11/2008 1:35:44 PM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 1084
Joined: 8/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Here's an update...
The couple in question is in fact NOT married, but cohabitating, and they are meeting with the pastor today to discuss membership.
Then they should be, respectfully and lovingly, told they may not join until they have repented and moved into seperate dwellings or repented and married.
And for those of you who might get confused: cohabitating = sin (usually of the adultery/fornication type)
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/11/2008 3:50:11 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Here's an update...
The couple in question is in fact NOT married, but cohabitating, and they are meeting with the pastor today to discuss membership.
Oh boy. I would not want to be in your shoes.
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/11/2008 4:04:46 PM
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Heavendweller
Posts: 553
Joined: 12/22/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
And for those of you who might get confused: cohabitating = sin (usually of the adultery/fornication type)
Nah, really? But what if the couple says they aren't intimate. And then there's the economy to consider. Why with the rising cost of living, more and more people of opposite gender will be co-habitating. Isn't that just a bit cruel to make people feel guilty about living under the same roof when they are stuggling to make ends meet? And it just might be that if they were in separate dwellings they would be financially distraught and go into debt. So the pastor and church members should be willing to pay for the extra expenses this couple would incur if they lived separately.
How can one claim themselves to be Christian and be so judgmental? So people of the opposite sex live together. Big deal. Who cares? Only self-righteous Christians who think they have no need to take the log out of their own eye. Until you are without sin, don't judge others! And as for the appearance of evil, how do you know others haven't misconstued some of your actions? Should I be determined by another man's scruples? We shouldn't live worrying about what other people think. No one else is able to see the heart of another. Christians should concentrate more on their own relationship with God and that way they'll be less likely to throw stones at others.
Now there. I think I represented the opposing side rather well. Be free to add to my comments.
Heavendweller
Heavendweller
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/11/2008 6:48:29 PM
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delete123
Posts: 775
Joined: 6/1/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Anyway, don't bother me with silly "facts" about what the Bible says right now. I'm busy looking in my Bible for four or so words I can take out of context and twist into what I want them to say! Maybe something in 1 Thessalonians 4.
Oh, good, I found it...verse 10..."we urge you...increase more and more..." So I gotta to to the buffet for lunch today!
Yes and don't bother you what the bible says. Today I asked my pastor and NO I did not use this verse out of context. You came here with pure speculation and busied yourself with a scenario that doesn't even belong to you.
You should MYOB since you are not the pastor in charge of the flock. I am soooo glad it is not me that went to your church I would have saved you the flavor and left leaving you with your speculation.
You should check the plank in your own eye. Iregardless of what the truth is, it is not your place.
And if you want to read I Thes. 4:10 why don't you start at IThes. 4:9 concerning what's that? Brotherly Love?! Yeah right I get it it doesn't apply.
Jessu came to save the sinner, not the so called righteous
CRH
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/11/2008 9:24:07 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 4458
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crh737
Yes and don't bother you what the bible says. Today I asked my pastor and NO I did not use this verse out of context. You came here with pure speculation and busied yourself with a scenario that doesn't even belong to you.
You should MYOB since you are not the pastor in charge of the flock.
So you're not your brother's keeper and as well I hope for your sake your pastor is never the one acting in sin because it would seem you'd be stuck having to remain in silence and accept whatever happenes...
quote:
I am soooo glad it is not me that went to your church I would have saved you the flavor and left leaving you with your speculation.You should check the plank in your own eye. Iregardless of what the truth is, it is not your place.
Actully it's everyone's place... Paul judged and corrected Peter for his sin of pride regarding eating with Gentiles...
quote:
And if you want to read I Thes. 4:10 why don't you start at IThes. 4:9 concerning what's that? Brotherly Love?! Yeah right I get it it doesn't apply.
The last thing brotherly love is looking the other way in regards to sin... The most hateful thing a Christian can do is turn their back on sinful brother or sister...
quote:
Jessu came to save the sinner, not the so called righteous
CRH
Yes in the context that mankind falls short of the glory of God and has sinned... Nothing to suggest that the body of Christ is to harbor people who refuse to repent of their ways... God clearly says to remove those who refuse to repent...
John
< Message edited by SovereignIsHe -- 6/11/2008 9:31:05 PM >
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/11/2008 9:41:50 PM
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DarleneSchreiber
Posts: 169
Joined: 5/22/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: crh737
quote:
ORIGINAL: DarleneSchreiber
Anyway, don't bother me with silly "facts" about what the Bible says right now. I'm busy looking in my Bible for four or so words I can take out of context and twist into what I want them to say! Maybe something in 1 Thessalonians 4.
Oh, good, I found it...verse 10..."we urge you...increase more and more..." So I gotta to to the buffet for lunch today!
Yes and don't bother you what the bible says. Today I asked my pastor and NO I did not use this verse out of context. You came here with pure speculation and busied yourself with a scenario that doesn't even belong to you.
You should MYOB since you are not the pastor in charge of the flock. I am soooo glad it is not me that went to your church I would have saved you the flavor and left leaving you with your speculation.
You should check the plank in your own eye. Iregardless of what the truth is, it is not your place.
And if you want to read I Thes. 4:10 why don't you start at IThes. 4:9 concerning what's that? Brotherly Love?! Yeah right I get it it doesn't apply.
Jessu came to save the sinner, not the so called righteous
CRH
Calm down, Sweetie! You're absolutely right...it's not my place. If you read all my posts, from the beginning, you'd (hopefully) see that my concern is really whether or not my pastor/elders will be bold enough in the Lord to make the correct decision for our church. If I haven't communicated that properly, it's my fault.
If the pastor/elders allow this couple to join, I will definitely MYOB ...as will my husband and kids. We will probably have a meeting with them to let them know why we are leaving the church and that will be it.
That's all IF...but we're hoping they're bold and courageous and take a stand for the truth and the if doesn't come to fruition. Hopefully, we'll find out soon.
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/12/2008 9:58:04 AM
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Bro_Shane
Posts: 1084
Joined: 8/4/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Heavendweller
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bro_Shane
And for those of you who might get confused: cohabitating = sin (usually of the adultery/fornication type)
Nah, really? But what if the couple says they aren't intimate.
Romans 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
I would ask them to please give me one example in scripture where a man and a woman lived together, without either being related or married, and it was blessed.
quote:
And then there's the economy to consider.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
quote:
How can one claim themselves to be Christian and be so judgmental?
John 7:24 J udge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Galatians 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
You did sum up the opposing side quit well, and I find God answeres these things much better than I can.
SovereignIsHe, great post.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/12/2008 10:15:35 AM
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Doc65
Posts: 277
Joined: 1/11/2008
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quote:
Oh boy. I would not want to be in your shoes.
More likely not in their shoes...
_____________________________
"The Sovereign Lord is my strength; He makes my feet like the feet of a deer, He enables me to go on the heights." Hab. 3:19
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/12/2008 10:33:32 AM
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Doc65
Posts: 277
Joined: 1/11/2008
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quote:
Original: DarleneSchreiber
It really doesn't matter, now does it? All that matters is what's in the heart. After all, God sees only the heart. It doesn't matter what other people think. Our Christianity is private, personal and just between us and God. It doesn't matter what's on the outside, just what's inside. That's what we teach our sons and daughters, isn't it?
I don't know if this was intended to be sarcsam in the other thread. If it is fine; if it's not, it drips duplicity, especially in light of this thread...
_____________________________
"The Sovereign Lord is my strength; He makes my feet like the feet of a deer, He enables me to go on the heights." Hab. 3:19
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RE: Advice on unmarried couple... - 6/12/2008 10:48:13 AM
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and how gymnastics seem to be a particular art for yourself, in your greats leaps to conclusions which I did not draw; you must have quite the trampoline by your computer 
