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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/11/2009 3:25:09 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
I went to a Pentecostal college, and was already so involved in a Pentecostal church. Nonetheless, I have begun that trek. Sounds like the trek I started about 15 years ago. I don't know where you live, ben, but I found the Tikkun network a very good fit for this old Pentecostal boy.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/11/2009 3:39:09 PM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
My favorite thing in the journey is that the Word makes more sense now.
A friend of mine who is taking the same journey said she felt like she had been trying to read without the whole alphabet before.
Once she was given the whole alphabet, suddenly words made more sense.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/11/2009 3:40:12 PM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
I went to a Pentecostal college, and was already so involved in a Pentecostal church. Nonetheless, I have begun that trek. Sounds like the trek I started about 15 years ago. I don't know where you live, ben, but I found the Tikkun network a very good fit for this old Pentecostal boy.
Thanks, Dave.
I have become a member of The First Fruits of Zion, as well.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/11/2009 6:20:46 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
I have become a member of The First Fruits of Zion, as well.
Very good. I must admit I was surprised to see you come up beside me on some of these threads, but in the heat of the battle, I don't question those beside me. I only spar with them when the battle subsides.
Your attitude is very good. I don't even trust myself sometimes. FFOZ has good resources, but do not expect perfect instruction from them either. If you would like a good balance to FFOZ, you might try Timm Hegg at torahresource.com.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/11/2009 6:51:17 PM
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rawr.ben
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Thanks for the resources! I'm always looking for more resources, different perspectives, etc.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/11/2009 6:55:18 PM
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rawr.ben
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Looking at that link, Blue, I see they have some of Lancaster's books on there. He is also on FFOZ, and I am going through his Torah Club study.
The Messianic fellowship I started going to is where D. Thomas Lancaster leads. He's a good man, and it's a joy learning under him.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/11/2009 7:19:07 PM
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prolifepj
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben I have become a member of The First Fruits of Zion, as well. Very good. I must admit I was surprised to see you come up beside me on some of these threads, but in the heat of the battle, I don't question those beside me. I only spar with them when the battle subsides. Your attitude is very good. I don't even trust myself sometimes. FFOZ has good resources, but do not expect perfect instruction from them either. If you would like a good balance to FFOZ, you might try Timm Hegg at torahresource.com.
Might I add to this? I thought I saw a post on here about learning about Shabbat-on that website, Tim Hegg has a little book called "Delight In Shabbat" - I have it read over and over so much that the pages are falling out...
***edited to remove the not-so-happy smiley that somehow ended up in my post,***
< Message edited by prolifepj -- 6/12/2009 12:27:57 AM >
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/11/2009 7:30:23 PM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: prolifepj
Might I add to this? I thought I saw a post on here about learning about Shabbat-on that website, Tim Hegg has a little book called "Delight In Shabbat" - I have it read over and over so much that the pages are falling out...
I did a google search, and an amazon search, and I cannot find this book anywhere. Do you know of any place that might have it?
ETA: I did find this from Torah Resources, but it isn't a book, it's CD's.
http://store.torahresource.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=289
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/11/2009 10:12:26 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Eutychus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
It's been my observation that whatever cafe, etc.
we go to, the only basic breakfast meat is pig...................
It's hard to find gravy without pig bits added to it.........lol.
Guess that's why I like my own cooking so much.
The Cracker Barrel offers Turkey sausage. I've eaten some and, IMHO, it's really good.
Although, it might have been cooked on the same grill as pork sausage...
Be careful! A lot of the turkey sausage links are in pig-casings -- as are a lot of the apple and ___ sausages (can't remember the other ingredient).
quote:
ORIGINAL: p31woman
quote:
quote:
I suppose I should poke my head in here and say hello. Some may have noticed some of my posts have taken a different tone over the past few months.
Yep, I noticed, rawr.ben.
:-) Me, too.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
FFOZ has good resources, but do not expect perfect instruction from them either. If you would like a good balance to FFOZ, you might try Timm Hegg at torahresource.com.
Amein.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/11/2009 11:44:18 PM
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rawr.ben
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Thanks, buddy!
You guys are super.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/12/2009 5:46:49 AM
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Ariella...
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
I didn't see you respond to my previous post. It was a general overview. With this clarification, I would say, I am an every man is the preist of his own household type. Rabbis can be useful for providing deeper understanding of the Scriptures and refereeing conflicts. However, I am not in favor of the shifting of the authority of the temple to the synogogue that has taken place in modern times. The Scriptures seem to give several examples of how overarching authority is not the best idea.
That's because I said I didn't have time to post much earlier. 
Now that I do...
Could you provide some examples of Scripture? Remember I am not referring to the act of determining whether or not a person has true spiritual authority. That is obvious. The Bereans are good examples of making sure Paul was a true Apostle of G-d.
It is obvious that as men, we are not perfect. The mistakes of Moses, David, Solomon, etc... aside, we cannot undermine their authority because of their imperfectness. It is clear that if a called Rabbi or Pastor has made a mistake of some sort that we shouldn't ignore the situation. But what is our general attitude of spiritual authority?
Now for some own sad news on my end. There has indeed been a split in our congregation. A small number of people have split and are now meeting on their own. From what I understand, it's because of a combination of different things. Our Rabbi is very compassionate and when necessary, he will correct when needed. If you take correction personally, gather a few others to take them with you...to me, that undermines his authority. No longer are we operating as obedient to those whom G-d places as Shepherds. I am not talking about some serious theological differences here.
That is just one example.
I believe my acceptance of my new Hebrew name is direct respect over spiritual authority. He is my Rabbi. I just know there has to be Scripture teaching us about this authority. Instead of spiritual authority, the Hebrews wanted a king. They wanted a different kind of authority.
quote:
Might I add to this? I thought I saw a post on here about learning about Shabbat-on that website, Tim Hegg has a little book called "Delight In Shabbat" - I have it read over and over so much that the pages are falling out...
Even if the title may be wrong, thank you for helping me out with my last question on the previous page! I'll try to find it.
< Message edited by Ariella... -- 6/12/2009 2:49:39 PM >
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/12/2009 6:22:09 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
Thanks, Dave.
I have become a member of The First Fruits of Zion, as well. Yeah - there are a few things I don't agree with them on but for the most part they are pretty good. Their magazine really kept DW and I alive for a couple of years....
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Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/12/2009 6:23:18 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3800
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
If you would like a good balance to FFOZ, you might try Timm Hegg at torahresource.com. When did Hegg leave FFOZ??
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Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/12/2009 12:17:31 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5591
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
My favorite thing in the journey is that the Word makes more sense now.
A friend of mine who is taking the same journey said she felt like she had been trying to read without the whole alphabet before.
Once she was given the whole alphabet, suddenly words made more sense.
I really like that analogy.
I'm sure I'll be using it myself...........lol.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/12/2009 3:54:12 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2959
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
If you would like a good balance to FFOZ, you might try Timm Hegg at torahresource.com. When did Hegg leave FFOZ??
About a year or so ago. It was over whether keeping HaTorah is what Adonai requires of us in our daily lives or if it is just better if we do keep it.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/12/2009 4:04:22 PM
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rawr.ben
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
About a year or so ago. It was over whether keeping HaTorah is what Adonai requires of us in our daily lives or if it is just better if we do keep it.
Aside from that . . . When it actually comes down to what following the Torah will entail, does FFOZ do a good job? I mean, I've found minor disagreements here and there, nothing big, and as a whole, I feel like I've learned a lot. I just want to make sure I'm not "learning" something that is incorrect.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/12/2009 5:08:35 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2959
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ariella...
Could you provide some examples of Scripture? Remember I am not referring to the act of determining whether or not a person has true spiritual authority. That is obvious. The Bereans are good examples of making sure Paul was a true Apostle of G-d.
It is obvious that as men, we are not perfect. The mistakes of Moses, David, Solomon, etc... aside, we cannot undermine their authority because of their imperfectness. It is clear that if a called Rabbi or Pastor has made a mistake of some sort that we shouldn't ignore the situation. But what is our general attitude of spiritual authority?
I believe my acceptance of my new Hebrew name is direct respect over spiritual authority. He is my Rabbi. I just know there has to be Scripture teaching us about this authority. Instead of spiritual authority, the Hebrews wanted a king. They wanted a different kind of authority.
This is the verse from which we get the term "the seat of Moses".
Ex 18:13 "the next day Moses took his seat to serve as judge for the people, and they stood around him from morning till evening."
This is the passage where Jethro advises Moses to set up the appellet system. It is presumed that Adonai commanded this because Moses enacts it.
Ex 18:20-26 "Teach them the decrees and laws, and show them the way to live and the duties they are to perform. But select capable men from all the people--men who fear God, trustworthy men who hate dishonest gain--and appoint them as officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. Have them serve as judges for the people at all times, but have them bring every difficult case to you; the simple cases they can decide themselves. That will make your load lighter, because they will share it with you. If you do this and God so commands, you will be able to stand the strain, and all these people will go home satisfied." Moses listened to his father-in-law and did everything he said. He chose capable men from all Israel and made them leaders of the people, officials over thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens. They served as judges for the people at all times. The difficult cases they brought to Moses, but the simple ones they decided themselves."
This is the verse where Moshe' is commanded to set up judges in every town.
Deut 16:18 "Appoint judges and officials for each of your tribes in every town the Lord your God is giving you, and they shall judge the people fairly."
Now, since the diaspora, it is not clear who "sits in the seat of Moses". Some believe Ezra setup the rabbinic system. Whenever it was begun, by the time of Yeshua it had become a cross between a prophet and a priest. Some being appointed and some appointing themselves.
Unless one connects them with the verses above, there really is no formal position of rabbi that I know of in the Scriptures. Over the years, in the diaspora, many synogogues have come to model themselves after the catholic model as modified by the protestants. I personally believe this is a mistake, but I have no scripture to back up that view.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 6/12/2009 5:27:47 PM >
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/12/2009 5:24:52 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2959
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rawr.ben
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
About a year or so ago. It was over whether keeping HaTorah is what Adonai requires of us in our daily lives or if it is just better if we do keep it.
Aside from that . . . When it actually comes down to what following the Torah will entail, does FFOZ do a good job? I mean, I've found minor disagreements here and there, nothing big, and as a whole, I feel like I've learned a lot. I just want to make sure I'm not "learning" something that is incorrect.
I hear rumblings off and on that they are being influenced by two track theology, but FFOZ appears to be the best at general publication and used in conjuction with a Torah discussion group that questions all things, I don't think you have much to worry about.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/12/2009 8:17:23 PM
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rawr.ben
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Thanks Blue!
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/13/2009 3:44:32 AM
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Bluethread
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You're welcome. Are you following the FFOZ one year reading schedule at Torah study?
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RE: Messianic Fellowship-Sivan 5768 - 6/13/2009 3:46:34 AM
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rawr.ben
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Yeah, we are doing the Torah Club and are on volume one.
Unfortunately, we are behind quite a bit. We keep following the character segments of Scripture, but our dates are off.
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