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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 7/29/2009 5:02:38 PM
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drussell52
Posts: 153
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Michigan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drussell52
Hi all. Absolution huh, :). For some of us a nice hearty cough may work instead of a wave!! What prompted my question was reading an article describing historic attempts to marry Jewish and Christian worship patterns and this article detailed that by 20th century Rabbinic P P Detertoff who became a believer and entered the Anglican church to promote his Jewish interpretation. The article said unlike then, today evangelicals and Messianics have little regard for Rabbinic tradition or using any formal worship setting i.e. like a Conservative or Reformed synagogue. I listen regularly to Congregation Melech from Toronto and after the sermon is over, hour number 2, they go into the liturgical portion of worship which goes on for another hour or so. If some of you attend MJ congregations and your services are on line, would you PM me the URL so I can note it and listen myself? Or, post the URL here, I use screen reading software so need to hear the whole thing, www etc etc etc..... You folks are great, happy summer Evening! Come visit me at my blog, http:///graftedinandonthejourney.blogspot.com (Drussell52)
Oh, I forgot to add, there is continous Messianic music on a live365 channel at soundsofhsalom.com. A high speed connection may be necessary to hear it though. Thanks, off to chill now!
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 7/30/2009 9:45:23 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5768
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
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Is that soundsofshalom.com ?
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 7/30/2009 12:39:28 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3185
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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A note from the difficult one:
I know my shul does that online stuff, but I am always there and never looked into it.
We are liturgical, but we do begin with music/congregational singing. I never timed our services, but we start at 10:30 a.m. The first 20 - 30 minutes are free time for people to just go about schmoozing with one another. Whenever they decide to start the music, they start (around 10:50 a.m. That goes for about -- ??? -- 20 - 30 minutes? Then it's liturgy from about 11:10-11:15 a.m. or so until about 12:30 p.m.?? Following that, it's teaching until about 2:15 p.m.
Not being used to the Prayers, when I first started attending, I would show up for the teachings, but now, I love the Prayers and the opportunity to lift my voice in prayer before the L-rd with so many others. I think that for those of us coming out of not-so-liturgical churches, we have to learn what it's about. For myself, I had to learn that it isn't just "much speaking [KJV]" but that it is prayer when the heart learns, understands, and participates in truth.
Then, to, was it in one of the Corinthian books or Colossians -- one of the "C" books, anyway, where the people were encouraged to continue in the "prayers."
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 7/30/2009 3:37:39 PM
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drussell52
Posts: 153
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
A note from the difficult one:
I know my shul does that online stuff, but I am always there and never looked into it.
We are liturgical, but we do begin with music/congregational singing. I never timed our services, but we start at 10:30 a.m. The first 20 - 30 minutes are free time for people to just go about schmoozing with one another. Whenever they decide to start the music, they start (around 10:50 a.m. That goes for about -- ??? -- 20 - 30 minutes? Then it's liturgy from about 11:10-11:15 a.m. or so until about 12:30 p.m.?? Following that, it's teaching until about 2:15 p.m.
Not being used to the Prayers, when I first started attending, I would show up for the teachings, but now, I love the Prayers and the opportunity to lift my voice in prayer before the L-rd with so many others. I think that for those of us coming out of not-so-liturgical churches, we have to learn what it's about. For myself, I had to learn that it isn't just "much speaking [KJV]" but that it is prayer when the heart learns, understands, and participates in truth.
Then, to, was it in one of the Corinthian books or Colossians -- one of the "C" books, anyway, where the people were encouraged to continue in the "prayers."
Hi, sorry for the goof, the URL is www.soundsofshalom.com.
Apologize for being in too much a hurry.
Abiya, thanks for the service overview. I had little use for anything formal when younger, but once I took a History of Music course in college, it opened my understanding to that type of worship experience. When I was a kid, late 1950s, used to get sat down to watch those Young People's Concerts hosted by the late Leonard Bernstein. I didn't get it then and the music seemed to out there but now love it, in fact listen to classical most times.
The article I keep referring to is titledAttempts to Marry Jewish and Christian Liturgy, by Roger Tomes, Centre for Jewish Studies
Manchester University
URL www.mucjs.org
Shalom Shabbat, see you folk next week G-d willing. (Drussell52)
Come visit me at my blog http://graftedinandonthejourney.blogspot.com
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/3/2009 9:52:28 AM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 8033
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
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Oh how neat! I'll have to check it out this week at home...sometime. 
_____________________________
When I've shown you that I just don't care
When I'm throwing punches in the air
When I'm broken down and I can't stand
Will you be strong enough to be my man?
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/5/2009 2:33:24 PM
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p31woman
Posts: 400
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Texas, and now South Dakota
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I dig soundsofshalom.com, especially on Erev Shabbat.
_____________________________
So don't let anyone pass judgment on you in connection with eating and drinking, or in regard to a Jewish festival or Rosh-Hodesh or Shabbat. These are a shadow of things that are coming, but the body is of the Messiah. Colossians 2:16-17
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/5/2009 4:48:59 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3185
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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I don't pray all of the prayers daily, but I do pray certain ones. I have two siddurim: one is the Tehillot HaMashiach Shabbat Siddur Tim Hegg of Torah Resource put together, but as the name says, it is mainly for Sabbath. They are working on a more complete Siddur, however. I can't remember the name of my other one, that is complete -- sorry!
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/5/2009 10:49:17 PM
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prolifepj
Posts: 1109
Joined: 9/12/2008
From: just over yonder
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Mine looks remarkably like Covaan_Meshuga's
and is also for Shabbat.
I pray the ones I know, I have what's in that siddur only except for what I learned in Hebrew class.
PS31- you got it! I know BHS must miss you!
< Message edited by prolifepj -- 8/5/2009 11:02:33 PM >
_____________________________
Sho nuff honey chile - Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to!
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/6/2009 11:24:40 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3185
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Hee-hee! yeah, it does!
My other siddur, by the way, is by Art Scroll.
I have a terrible time memorizing -- especially in a second language. I have learned that if I learn the prayers by praying them to the music of a song, it sure helps. I don't know how to cant, so I don't know all the prayers' tunes. unfortunate. But I think that for me, at least, it is more important that I pray the prayers than know the correct notations.
The idea just came to me not long ago, so don't think I am real good at this or very experienced -- I am a beginner with memorization of the Prayers.
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/7/2009 11:52:33 AM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 8033
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
Status: offline
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Okay...here's my first question. 
When it comes to eating kosher, do you follow the Orthodox structure and make sure foods are prepared by the full standards or do you just avoid food that isn't kosher?
_____________________________
When I've shown you that I just don't care
When I'm throwing punches in the air
When I'm broken down and I can't stand
Will you be strong enough to be my man?
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/7/2009 2:17:49 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3185
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From: being knit together in my mother's womb
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I eat what I call biblically kosher, in that I stick to what the Bible says, with "fences." I, too, listen to what my community says, in order to do what is right. Without them, I would not have learned about how nonkosher meats are used in the production of apparently-decent foods -- little things like gelatin usually being from the hooves of almost any animal and that most red coloring comes from squished-up bugs. Upon learning things like this, I became a major label-reader.
On that note, hooray for Hershey's candy bars!
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/7/2009 3:15:29 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3810
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
When it comes to eating kosher, do you follow the Orthodox structure and make sure foods are prepared by the full standards or do you just avoid food that isn't kosher? The orthodox structure is based on things being approved by a rabbi. Not only is the food prepared and packaged under rabbinic supervision, the home and utensels where it is stored and prepared must be inspected as well. Meat and milk must never come in contact with the same utensils or dishes. Neither must come into contact with anything that has been used with biblically unclean foods. No one who is a gentile can handle or prepare orthodox kosher food.
So I and most Messianics keep what we call 'biblical kosher.' It mostly is the avoidance of pork and shellfish products. There are some others as well but they are not as prevalent as those are. Abiyah listed some others. Like pork flavoring in turkey sausage and bacon. (read the label) Most gelatins have non-kosher products. Catfish do not have scales and are non kosher. Most resturants that list "Tillapia" from the menu actually serve farmed catfish instead. I ask the waiter to ask the cook. If you say you have a reason for avoiding catfish, they will definately ask. True tillapia is ok. Ostrich meat is forbidden in scripture specifically. So is rabbit.
Something NOT taught in gentile churches but should be is the prohibition in Acts 15 of any meat that has been strangled. (strangulation coagulates the blood in the vessels and cannot be properly drained)
< Message edited by DaveW -- 8/7/2009 3:23:59 PM >
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/7/2009 5:41:31 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2927
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
Actually I'm talking to anyone who eats Kosher. I'm still learning about this so bear with me.
Regarding meat, I buy kosher seal if there is the possibility of gut fat, ie. hot dogs and sausages. With cut meat and hamburger, I am not too concerned. The red in the meat is not blood, but die designed to look like blood for sales purposes. For fresh butchered meat, I prefer a kosher kill and handling, so the blood is drained.
One of the women in our community used to brine all of her meat. After several discussions in the matter, we decided that absolute removal of the blood could not have been the intent of Adonai. Rather the principle, in our view, must be no bloody meat or use of blood as an ingredient. If the meat has been thoroughly washed and package drained, we are of the opinion that it is sufficient.
Regarding vegitables, I try to avoid neuter hybrids since we are give every seed bearing plant for food. I have my own garden and one can not be sure regarding seed for fertile plants. I am letting some plants go to seed in an attempt to breed acclimated fertile plants.
That is were we are at this time. Much of this is not clear in the Scriptures, so we need to discuss these things and come to our best understanding of Adonai's intent.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/7/2009 5:48:44 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
Posts: 3185
Joined: 6/8/2005
From: being knit together in my mother's womb
Status: offline
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But Blue! Seal is not kosher!!
snicker-snicker!
_____________________________
While in prayer or praise, I am only as devoted to G-d as I am in my most private moments.
Abiyah, if you had known them as G-d knows them, you would have answered them differently.
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/9/2009 10:02:43 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3810
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: online
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Meat that is certified kosher does not have the hormones or the production line pens. They have to be well fed, well cared for and free rangning. They are killed in as painless a way as possible.
I am not sure but believe that halal [islamic equivalent to kosher] certification has the same requirements.
_____________________________
Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Messianic Fellowship - 8/10/2009 9:20:07 AM
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drussell52
Posts: 153
Joined: 4/24/2008
From: Michigan
Status: offline
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Hi and shalom all. This topic of kosher, clean and unclean came up when I did a 6-week group last March on Intro to Hebraic Roots with mostly people from the church we attend. I thought at the time, torahclass.com offered the best commentary for newbies like us from Leviticus 11. The interesting observation is, people who do not want to be confronted with change, or even thinking about change, won't change. This hit home when I saw the blog by a gentleman named Chris from Good News For Israel, www.gnfi.org. He made the observation, many Christian leaders don't want to change their teaching so as to avoid offending or confusing anyone. The Ruach HaKodesh is the only means by which any of us can be shown our sin and therefore make the choice to change or not change. We like the Food Network here in my house, and quite often, shows feature food prep with pork, shrimp, or other shellfish. It is definitely an intriguing topic, and while grace is not an excuse, at the same time these matters are between one's self and our Savior in my opinion. Finally, thanks for the links. I have another for you, it's an Messianic congregation in Northern Ohio. The URL is www.sarshalommessianic.com. They are under construction but have some things there.
Come visit me at my blog
http://graftedinandonthejourney.blogspot.com
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