GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (Full Version)

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bluegravel -> GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/10/2008 5:44:38 PM)

I posted an article from World News Daily regarding an ongoing court case up in Canada. I am not interested in discussing homosexuality in this thread and I did not want to discuss it in the last thread.

I believe what the word of God teaches regarding that practice. So, no need to talk about that here - there is, apparently, another thread for that.

I am trying to draw attention to the interference and censorship and now harrasement and even a 5000.00 fine against a pastor because he taught what the Bible teaches regarding sexual orientation. Let's forget what the actual example is and draw attention to the other more important matter, which is the government stepping in and telling a Christian pastor he cannot teach what the Bible teaches. Where is this going to end? Interested in hearing what others think or may have read about this type of occurence. Thanks



lw9 -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/10/2008 5:48:31 PM)

quote:

sevenseas: Where is this going to end?


It's going to end with Christ coming down from the heavens in glory. Praise God. Until then, the outlook for Christians here in this world isn't good, but then again... it never was. There will be persecution and suffering for His name.



bluegravel -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/10/2008 5:52:53 PM)

Yup, but what can we do about it now? If Christians are 'forced' to accept the government dictates as to what can be preached from the pulpit, isn't it time to speak up about it now? I think that things have gotten as far as they have because we in North America have become too lax and comfortable in our 'safe' lives. People are dying for the gospel in some countires - my husband has and wears a T shirt with a cross on it that says: This t shirt is illiegal in 51 countries. That is the type of thing I am talking about.

It's easy to say Jesus is coming back, praise God and so on - easy until someone is knocking on your front door and you are hauled off to prison or worse. All persecution has a beginning and it seems it may be begining here in N. America now.



rcjames -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/10/2008 6:09:52 PM)

I can easily see where it may not be long before a good ole Biblical teaching on sin could well run awry of some hate speech ligislation or local law.

But, since teachings on the evils of sin are as rare as hen's teeth as of late, it may not be a major problem.[8|]


Thanks
RC



Heavendweller -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/10/2008 6:18:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

I can easily see where it may not be long before a good ole Biblical teaching on sin could well run awry of some hate speech ligislation or local law.

But, since teachings on the evils of sin are as rare as hen's teeth as of late, it may not be a major problem.[8|]

Smile. And since one cannot lose their salvation, OSAS, then what does it really matter what happens? Why according to some, even if a person claims to once have had faith, and then openly denies Christ and delivers his brother or sister over to the authorities, he can still be saved anyway.

Hey, what is sin anyway? Isn't it really just in the eye of the beholder?

Heavendweller



lw9 -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/10/2008 7:13:39 PM)

quote:

sevenseas: It's easy to say Jesus is coming back, praise God and so on - easy until someone is knocking on your front door and you are hauled off to prison or worse. All persecution has a beginning and it seems it may be begining here in N. America now.


I wasn't calling for Christians to be lax or take an 'oh well' approach, I promise. It's just that we are warned time and time again about persecution and apostasy. If there is something Christians can do right now to stop this move towards outlawing free speech, then we should do it. I'm totally open to suggestions. In the end, though, only God knows whether this trend can be turned or not.



bluegravel -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/10/2008 7:17:35 PM)

quote:

Smile. And since one cannot lose their salvation, OSAS, then what does it really matter what happens? Why according to some, even if a person claims to once have had faith, and then openly denies Christ and delivers his brother or sister over to the authorities, he can still be saved anyway.

Hey, what is sin anyway? Isn't it really just in the eye of the beholder?

Heavendweller


This has absolutley nothing to do with the questions I asked or what I wanted to talk about. I am talking about government censorship - in the here and now - not the hereafter. Thanks [:D]



bluegravel -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/10/2008 7:19:28 PM)

quote:

I wasn't calling for Christians to be lax or take an 'oh well' approach, I promise. It's just that we are warned time and time again about persecution and apostasy. If there is something Christians can do right now to stop this move towards outlawing free speech, then we should do it. I'm totally open to suggestions. In the end, though, only God knows whether this trend can be turned or not.


Don't take it personally - I am just trying to see if people are aware of what is going on - I don't want personal discussions or disagreements.

And I am not talking about apostasy - again, I am trying to draw attention to governnment censorship - Please, let's at least talk about the same thing. Thanks [:D]



Jhud -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/11/2008 4:01:43 PM)

It's very sad state of events in Canada - they are basically experimenting with fascism.

There is a pretty good breakdown on what is happening here.



Solus -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/11/2008 4:08:54 PM)

I am against censorship of an kind. That is not the governments job.



colliefan -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/11/2008 8:30:29 PM)

The former pastor of the church I used to attend came from Canada and often said that Canada was just ten years advanced in limiting religous speach and that would took place in Canada would soon move to the USA.

If Barry is elected look for the renewal of the "Fairness" Doctrine.



lexie -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/12/2008 8:17:04 AM)

quote:

It's very sad state of events in Canada - they are basically experimenting with fascism.


Eh, we've always been experimenting with fascism.

As for the poster who mentioned that what happens here will eventually happen in the US, I believe so. We've had legal gay marriage for how long now, and it's beginning to happen in the US. It's only a matter of time.

What really gets me about all this though, is the people who bring up cases like this before the silly human rights commissions are biting the hand that feeds them. When you look at the high profile cases in front of it right now, these are people and groups sho don't realize that the freedoms we give them (and that they are fighting) aren't available in most other places.

But of course the government and the human rights commission has to go after the Christians now, otherwise they would probably be brought up in front of themselves by non-Christian groups for discrimination.

And to think that we have a Christian Prime Minister, whose own belief system feels the same way about homosexuality as this man, and yet he has done nothing to stop all this stupidity that goes on at the commission.

(Sorry, this commission thing is really getting on my nerves lately. Every time I read about the Mark Steyn case - mentioned in the article Jhud posted - I want to scream.)



URForgiven -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/12/2008 8:54:56 AM)

Canada and Europe are fine examples of where America is headed, and very quickly. The day we allowed the courts to decide and create laws, was the beginning of the end for us. We now have the courts overruling the wishes of the majority of free and law-abiding citizens, which is the opposite of a what it means to live in a democratic republic.

The power to create laws was never intended to be in the hands of a few "superior" persons, but in the hands of the legislature, with the oversight coming from the people through their power of the vote.

When the government can censor what pastors can say from the pulpit, by threatening them with a loss of tax-free status, then it is the government that has crossed the barrier that exists between itself and the church.

When the government can threaten pastors with criminal charges for preaching the Word of God, then it is the government that has crossed the line of separation that exists between itself and the church. This is exactly what the founding fathers, with great insight and divine fore-site, tried so desperately to prevent.

Unfortunately, the "nanny state" mentality has replaced the American dream, and America will be a much different, and I believe a much worse country, because of it.

Peace



Solus -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/12/2008 4:00:59 PM)

I am not aware of laws in Canada so I'll respond as if this were the US. If he spoke out against it inside a church it should be fine. That is a private institution. If he was speaking out in public I'm not sure if it is legal or not but it is a bad idea. You can't expect everyone to follow what you deem to be acceptible.



Jhud -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/12/2008 4:50:51 PM)

quote:

Eh, we've always been experimenting with fascism.

As for the poster who mentioned that what happens here will eventually happen in the US, I believe so. We've had legal gay marriage for how long now, and it's beginning to happen in the US. It's only a matter of time.

What really gets me about all this though, is the people who bring up cases like this before the silly human rights commissions are biting the hand that feeds them. When you look at the high profile cases in front of it right now, these are people and groups sho don't realize that the freedoms we give them (and that they are fighting) aren't available in most other places.

But of course the government and the human rights commission has to go after the Christians now, otherwise they would probably be brought up in front of themselves by non-Christian groups for discrimination.

And to think that we have a Christian Prime Minister, whose own belief system feels the same way about homosexuality as this man, and yet he has done nothing to stop all this stupidity that goes on at the commission.

(Sorry, this commission thing is really getting on my nerves lately. Every time I read about the Mark Steyn case - mentioned in the article Jhud posted - I want to scream.)


Perhaps we are contemplating building a fence on the worng border?



lexie -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/13/2008 8:16:39 AM)

quote:

Perhaps we are contemplating building a fence on the worng border?


I do believe that in certain areas across the border you have some locals sitting in folding chairs, polishing their guns!

quote:

If he spoke out against it inside a church it should be fine. That is a private institution. If he was speaking out in public I'm not sure if it is legal or not but it is a bad idea. You can't expect everyone to follow what you deem to be acceptible.


From what I understand, the churches are currently pretty much safe from these types of laws (the government won't go into them) however, this pastor did decide to write his views in a local paper. It may seem like a bad idea, but we are watching our society plunge further and further morally, and these people aren't sitting in our pews on Sundays to hear the truth about their lifestyles. How else are we to reach them?

(I never read the article btw. I believe that we need to speak up on these things and not just sit on them in the church, but I do believe there is a loving way to do it and a harmful way to do it. I'm not sure what approach this guy took.)



notmycity -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/13/2008 2:43:33 PM)

Just wait and see what influence 501(c) will have on censorship...



bsjones84 -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/14/2008 6:49:01 AM)

This has been going on in America for a while now. It may night be quite so blatant yet, but has been here nonetheless. Remember the judge who was disbarred because he refused to take down the ten commandments?

What are Christians to do when we are faced with being arrested or worse forms of persecution? We have the apostles as our examples. Proclaim the Word of God no matter what the consequences are. I pray that if I'm ever facing such persecution I will be bold and trust fully in Him. God help me to stand for you regardless of the consequences.

Bub



Heavendweller -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/15/2008 4:04:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bsjones84
What are Christians to do when we are faced with being arrested or worse forms of persecution? We have the apostles as our examples. Proclaim the Word of God no matter what the consequences are. I pray that if I'm ever facing such persecution I will be bold and trust fully in Him. God help me to stand for you regardless of the consequences.

Bub,

Amen! May we be ever dilligent to proclaim the life and death of our Lord Jesus Christ and willing even to give up our very lives unto death for Him.

Heavendweller



Solus -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/16/2008 1:43:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lexie

quote:

Perhaps we are contemplating building a fence on the worng border?


I do believe that in certain areas across the border you have some locals sitting in folding chairs, polishing their guns!

quote:

If he spoke out against it inside a church it should be fine. That is a private institution. If he was speaking out in public I'm not sure if it is legal or not but it is a bad idea. You can't expect everyone to follow what you deem to be acceptible.


From what I understand, the churches are currently pretty much safe from these types of laws (the government won't go into them) however, this pastor did decide to write his views in a local paper. It may seem like a bad idea, but we are watching our society plunge further and further morally, and these people aren't sitting in our pews on Sundays to hear the truth about their lifestyles. How else are we to reach them?

(I never read the article btw. I believe that we need to speak up on these things and not just sit on them in the church, but I do believe there is a loving way to do it and a harmful way to do it. I'm not sure what approach this guy took.)


You just can't tell people that their lifestyle is evil and then be shocked when they get after you. I am not condoning the behavior and I do think what he did should be allowed, he just can't be shocked or complain that he upset people.



Heavendweller -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/17/2008 2:26:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Solus
You just can't tell people that their lifestyle is evil and then be shocked when they get after you. I am not condoning the behavior and I do think what he did should be allowed, he just can't be shocked or complain that he upset people.

When free speech is suppressed in one area, it will soon be suppressed in another area. History prooves this. Re-education camps, anyone? Cultural revolution folks? How about "sensitivity training"? Oh wait, that's going on in Canada right now. Who deems those who are in need of this "sensitivity training?" And what is the intended outcome of such "training?" And what happens should someone refuse this "training?"

When the freedoms of one group are threatened, look out. Soon Big Brother will be knocking at your door.

So we let the the crackpots have freedom of speech. We just don't follow or believe what they teach.

Whatever happened to "Sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me?"

Heavendweller



solarflare -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/17/2008 2:58:38 PM)

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech in or out of a 'church'. Apparently, after reading the article, it seems the pastor is not allowed to teach what the Bible has to say about homosexuality.
It seems homosexuals and other minorities can boast and say anything they want - and if you do not agree, you are not allowed to say so. That, is not freedom of speech. At least not for one side. The larger side, I might add.
So, teaching what the Bible says regarding this particular sin has become a 'hate crime'? That, if I understand things correctly, is the real problem, not where the words were spoken. The government should not have the right to dictate what is taught or believed in church - especially not when those beliefs have been espoused for a couple of thousand years.



rcjames -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/17/2008 3:08:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: solarflare

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech in or out of a 'church'. Apparently, after reading the article, it seems the pastor is not allowed to teach what the Bible has to say about homosexuality.
It seems homosexuals and other minorities can boast and say anything they want - and if you do not agree, you are not allowed to say so. That, is not freedom of speech. At least not for one side. The larger side, I might add.
So, teaching what the Bible says regarding this particular sin has become a 'hate crime'? That, if I understand things correctly, is the real problem, not where the words were spoken. The government should not have the right to dictate what is taught or believed in church - especially not when those beliefs have been espoused for a couple of thousand years.


Very perceptive of this paricular situation and all the other "Hate Speech" laws in waiting that are being proposed and supported by the liberals.

Free speech takes another giant hit.

Thsnks
RC



earthless -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/19/2008 11:11:59 AM)

This is why if I ever pastor another church - we will not be seeking a 501(c)3 status. We will pay taxes and not have to worry about what is said and or what is not said from the pulpit. [8D]



lw9 -> RE: GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP AGAINST CHRISTIANS (6/19/2008 12:11:52 PM)

quote:

earthless: This is why if I ever pastor another church - we will not be seeking a 501(c)3 status. We will pay taxes and not have to worry about what is said and or what is not said from the pulpit.


Every church should be prepared to do the same as far as I'm concerned. God didn't promise the church a special tax status. He did command us to preach the truth no matter what.



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