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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/16/2008 8:59:15 PM
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Tinkerbell_
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From: NeverNeverLand
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Oh good grief. Those were mere examples. I know that pregnancies are due to other issues than rape and ignorance. But they do exist. And regardless if a girl is having premarital sex, it doesn't change how she feels when she finds out she's pregnant. Yes we need to start with abstinence. But until then, we need to show the love and compassion of Christ to them. Period. So they don't feel like they have to have an abortion. So they don't want to.
I won't try to make one seem worse than the other because there is no difference between abortion and murder. However, may I pull the man card and say, 'you won't understand unless you've been there?'
< Message edited by Tinkerbell_ -- 6/16/2008 9:07:19 PM >
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/16/2008 9:02:29 PM
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Stronger2day
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It is easy to scream that it is wrong, but we can educate, promote stronger families, promote abstinence and/or join some sort of crisis pregnancy group.
I do beleive those who have had abortions can still find forgiveness, however it doesn't mean I will remain quiet on abortion not being in God's plan for us- not when an innocent life is taken and never had a voice.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/16/2008 9:07:25 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3744
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
Oh good grief. Those were mere examples. I know that pregnancies are due to other issues than rape and ignorance. But they do exist. And regardless if a girl is having premarital sex, it doesn't change how she feels when she finds out she's pregnant. Yes we need to start with abtinence. But until then, we need to show the love and compassion of Christ to them. Period. So they don't feel like they have to have an abortion. So they don't want to.
Problem is too many believe that love and compassion is it's ok to murder the child God will understand...
quote:
I won't try to make one seem worse than the other because there is no difference between abortion and murder. However, may I pull the man card and say, 'you won't understand unless you've been there?'
I held in my hands the neck of the man that raped my son and daughter and didn't take his life...I have been there and most folks would probably had understood if I snapped his neck, but I know it's not my place to take his life... Same goes for the raped woman and the 15 year girl and even more so for the reason behind the vast majority of abortion, they don't have the right and they are no less a murderer than someone in prison and it's hypocrisy that we allow them to murder and we put others in jail or justly take their life...
John
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/16/2008 9:12:45 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 6129
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From: NeverNeverLand
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Again, you're mincing my words. Of course we're to show compassion to women who have had abortions. We are to love.
I'm primarily talking about showing compassion for teenagers or young women who are pregnant and don't know what to do. Who are living a life of generational mistakes and this is one opportunity to right that situation. I've seen too many offices tell them that abortion is a perfectly acceptable answer for their woes and we need to be around to pull them in our arms and tell them differently. Tell them why it's wrong and that there are other options to abortion.
Why are you not seeing my point? Am I misrepresenting myself?
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/16/2008 9:22:05 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3744
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
Of course we're to show compassion to women who have had abortions. We are to love.
Shouldn't they be treated like people who murder outside the womb as well.. Or is it we can only show compassion if they get away with it?
John
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/16/2008 9:25:14 PM
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Tinkerbell_
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I believe those who murder outside the womb should be shown compassion as well. Unfortunately society doesn't agree with you there.
And will you PLEASE quit focusing on the ones who did abort and look at the ones who might or might not make that choice? I am far more worried that they will chose to do so because of our lack of effort. Christians make more of a difference than you realise.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/16/2008 9:28:17 PM
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betterisoneday
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You're saying your point fine Tinkerbell.
I got pregnant unmarried, long story and no one here's business anymore, and even though I knew abortion was wrong and the thought of it turned my stomach that is all the advice I was offered. When I found out I was already 3 1/2 months along, and the first things I heard were how hard it would be and how anyone in church would look down on me for the rest of my life.
Yeah.... like I wasn't already ashamed. There was finally one woman who told me 'no you don't have to get an abortion, children are worth the difficulties'. Just one person who didn't make some comment about how I should've known better and how "big" of a sin it was. One person who just said it was a mistake, learn from it and offered to help.
I'd rather be the one person encouraging a young pregnant girl in hopes that she won't have an abortion than just turn away from all of them because they sinned. Some will still get an abortion anyway, and I am quite vocal on what I think about it, but they also need to know that 'yes it was wrong, but you can change, you can be forgiven and learn to live differently'.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/16/2008 9:36:15 PM
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armydude
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From: NC
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I'm understanding your point also my friend.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/16/2008 9:39:51 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3744
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
I believe those who murder outside the womb should be shown compassion as well.
What does that mean... What does compassion mean? No jail time? No justly put to death?
quote:
Unfortunately society doesn't agree with you there.
In what manner?
quote:
And will you PLEASE quit focusing on the ones who did abort and look at the ones who might or might not make that choice?
Because I am dealing with the reasons behind the vast majority of murdered unborn children... 3500 children are murdered daily and you might be dealing with 5 or 6 of them...
quote:
I am far more worried that they will chose to do so because of our lack of effort.
They do so because they make a choice not because of an lack of effort... Because it's legal and most people don't care they have feel it's ok to take the life of the child...
quote:
Christians make more of a difference than you realise.
This quite a change from your prior comment that the church is failing...
John
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/16/2008 9:46:14 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 6129
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From: NeverNeverLand
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I think this is the time that I give you a big hug, and tell you I wish you well in your en devours. I posted originally to open the eyes of our community that there is so much we as Christians can do to stop abortion and I accomplished that. People saw my point and understood and that's all I ask.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/16/2008 9:58:03 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 3744
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
I think this is the time that I give you a big hug, and tell you I wish you well in your en devours. I posted originally to open the eyes of our community that there is so much we as Christians can do to stop abortion and I accomplished that. People saw my point and understood and that's all I ask.
Today 3500 unborn children will have their life taken and about 3496 will have nothing to do with what you posted... What you posted about the church doing or should be isn't anything new and I know because much of my responses to your posts where from 8 + years of posting on the subject.
John
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 3:29:33 AM
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relady
Posts: 951
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From: Greater St. Louis Metro
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quote:
Even the Old Testament speaks to harming a fetus and causing a miscarriage (abortion); Fiat-lux spoke to this particular set of verses more eloquently than I ever could. May I just state that I agree with his/her interpretation? Thank you Fiat!
< Message edited by relady -- 6/17/2008 3:50:45 AM >
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 5:34:23 AM
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Purposeful_Life
Posts: 39
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Do I really need to bother posting on a Christian forum biblical support that abortion is murder and that God more than frowns on the cold blooded murder of unborn children?
I'd be glad if one didn't have to "debate" with other Christians the issue of abortion...
John
I am sure you would [be glad that is] and feel free to not join in - but debate will always be there whilst there are differing views. The fact that you can't see/agree with the alternative view is, of course, your right but that doesn't [by definition] mean the other views aren't there.
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Nigel
God has designed a purpose/vision/dream for us all - have you found yours?
Learn to D.R.E.A.M.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 5:45:59 AM
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Purposeful_Life
Posts: 39
Joined: 6/14/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
I think this is the time that I give you a big hug, and tell you I wish you well in your en devours. I posted originally to open the eyes of our community that there is so much we as Christians can do to stop abortion and I accomplished that. People saw my point and understood and that's all I ask.
Thanks for your time and effort in this debate. You articulated your point of view with clarity and grace.
I work with young people, day in and day out, some of which face the decision of what to do with their pregnancy. At that point - of confusion, fear, shame - the last thing they need is a placard - rather they need a hug, a listening ear, some unconditional love, and heaps of support. In those circumstances they can make an informed decision and I, for one, would trust that would be to keep the baby.
Having said that - if they chose an abortion I would still love them through it ... isn't that what un-conditional means?
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Nigel
God has designed a purpose/vision/dream for us all - have you found yours?
Learn to D.R.E.A.M.
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 6:07:29 AM
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armydude
Posts: 15144
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Purposeful_Life
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
I think this is the time that I give you a big hug, and tell you I wish you well in your en devours. I posted originally to open the eyes of our community that there is so much we as Christians can do to stop abortion and I accomplished that. People saw my point and understood and that's all I ask.
Thanks for your time and effort in this debate. You articulated your point of view with clarity and grace.
I work with young people, day in and day out, some of which face the decision of what to do with their pregnancy. At that point - of confusion, fear, shame - the last thing they need is a placard - rather they need a hug, a listening ear, some unconditional love, and heaps of support. In those circumstances they can make an informed decision and I, for one, would trust that would be to keep the baby.
Having said that - if they chose an abortion I would still love them through it ... isn't that what un-conditional means?
That is exactly what unconditional love means. If we are going to say we love people the way Christ first loved us, I'd say this is where the rubber meets the road...
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Good question, you think?
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RE: Abortion-Pro life or Pro-Choice? - 6/17/2008 9:41:17 AM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 6129
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
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I think not enough is being done for situations. I hate to say this but I went to two churches when I was pregnant with Thing 1. I went to my aunt's church for Youth Church and to my parents church for regular church. When I found out I was pregnant with Thing 1 my aunt's youth church shunned me and refused to have anything to do with me, didn't return my phone calls, didn't let me know they were praying for me...anything...even after hearing I had been hospitalised mutliple times.
My parents church spent more time whispering and speculating about me instead of being there for me. I was truly isolated. One woman from my parents church would come over and talk with me. She never mentioned the pregnancy, she never asked what happened. She just came over, did crafts with me, small devotions, and kept my mum company when I was too sick to move.
Two churches. And only ONE person did something. So yes...I have to say that we as a church aren't doing enough for pregnant women who may be tempted with abortion.
Prayer is wonderful and I pray earnestly that we never stop praying. But one small simple guesture can actually show someone the love of Christ.
Just one.
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