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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 3:24:54 PM
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davemiller7
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That's a sorry state of affairs. I think that means that Old Scratch is alive and well in the world. (He doesn't know his future, though!)
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
quote:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370588,00.html
"""By many measures, Americans are strongly religious: 92 percent believe in God, 74 percent believe in life after death and 63 percent say their respective scriptures are the word of God."""
HA! 92% claim God, yet only 74% believe in life after death...Too funny...
Some interesting quips from that link....
Among the more startling numbers in the survey, conducted last year by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life: 57 percent of evangelical church attenders said they believe many religions can lead to eternal life, in conflict with traditional evangelical teaching.
More than half of evangelical church attenders claim salvation by some other means than Christ???
It gets worse...
In all, 70 percent of Americans with a religious affiliation shared that view, and 68 percent said there is more than one true way to interpret the teachings of their own religion.
Nearly across the board, the majority of religious Americans believe many religions can lead to eternal life: mainline Protestants (83 percent), members of historic black Protestant churches (59 percent), Roman Catholics (79 percent), Jews (82 percent) and Muslims (56 percent).
You start looking at the findings of the survey you see that really most people believe in God that's not found in the bible...
John
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 3:27:50 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
That's a sorry state of affairs. I think that means that Old Scratch is alive and well in the world. (He doesn't know his future, though!)
-Dave
Off-topic comment:
Where did that phrase "Old Scratch" come from anyway. I like it, just no idea where it came from.
Carry on ....
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 3:50:36 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
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quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
If he walks like a deceiver, talks like a deceiver, acts like a deceiver, he is a deceiver...........
As a McCain supporter, there is plenty to criticize re: Obama. But the depths to which Christians are stooping saddens me.
Yes, I probably should not have posted that...
But it angers me greatly when I see the man standing in a so-called church, in front of a hugh sign that says "Jesus Is Lord" while his very actions make an absolute mockery of that precious statement.
His record on voting to murder precious, innocent unborn or partially born children etc, bring an absolute reproach on the name of The Lord Jesus Christ while the media continue to chant out "he is a Christian".
We have every right to look at the fruit the man produces and by his fruit I say the man is a deceiver.....
I agree with you. Actions speak louder than words, and his actions and words say he is not a Christian. Lets not forget that he says that Jesus is not the only way to heaven, which in essence totally undermines what Jesus Christ did on the cross for us.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 4:00:39 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
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Even there, I'm not so sure. Obama has spent a considerable portion of his life on social justice issues. I find that to be very Christian.
As far as saying the Christ is not the only means to heaven, C.S. Lewis said that as well, yet I don't doubt his salvation.
I think the way Obama is working out his salvation looks a lot different than we're used to - he gets worked up about some things that the average evangelical doesn't really emphasize, and fails to get worked up about some things that most evangelicals care deeply about.
I don't think that's sufficient cause to doubt a man's salvation. There's much that I disagree with him about, but I hesitate to doubt a man's salvation if he believes in sin, redemption, and grace.
Edit: There's a huge difference between being wrong, and being a deceiver. One can accuse him of being wrong, but I get uncomfortable when folks accuse him of deception.
< Message edited by GroupW -- 6/26/2008 4:07:30 PM >
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 4:23:29 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
Doesn't it say somewhere in Deuteronomy something like, "Neither shalt thou bring an Obamanation into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing."
LOL, that was good jimbo, i was rolling
I'll (grudgingly) admit that was funny. Just don't tell my friends I said that.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 4:24:56 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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Off topic - Not really sure............... it's been around a long time. Just don't know it's origin.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
That's a sorry state of affairs. I think that means that Old Scratch is alive and well in the world. (He doesn't know his future, though!)
-Dave
Off-topic comment:
Where did that phrase "Old Scratch" come from anyway. I like it, just no idea where it came from.
Carry on ....
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 4:29:12 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
Off topic - Not really sure............... it's been around a long time. Just don't know it's origin.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
That's a sorry state of affairs. I think that means that Old Scratch is alive and well in the world. (He doesn't know his future, though!)
-Dave
Off-topic comment:
Where did that phrase "Old Scratch" come from anyway. I like it, just no idea where it came from.
Carry on ....
Explanations I've found:
Altered form of earlier "Scrat." From the Old Norse "Skratte" for goblin.
[Probably alteration of scrat, from Middle English, hermaphrodite goblin, from Old Norse skratte, wizard, goblin.]
Old Scratch, like Old Nick, is a nickname for the devil. In the last century it was widely used in the eastern United States, especially in New England, as is evident from the Devil's name for himself in the Stephen Vincent Benét short story "The Devil and Daniel Webster." Now the term has been regionalized to the South. Old Scratch is attested in the Oxford English Dictionary from the 18th century onward in Great Britain as a colloquialism: "He'd have pitched me to Old Scratch" (Anthony Trollope, 1858). The source of the name is probably the Old Norse word skratte, meaning "a wizard, goblin, monster, or devil."
Returning to the OP now...sorry for the break.
< Message edited by GroupW -- 6/26/2008 4:36:27 PM >
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 4:34:47 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
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We can't "work out" our salvation, not even Obama can do that (he probably can't really walk on water either). We can't be saved by our works alone, only through the atoning blood of Jesus, the Christ.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Even there, I'm not so sure. Obama has spent a considerable portion of his life on social justice issues. I find that to be very Christian.
As far as saying the Christ is not the only means to heaven, C.S. Lewis said that as well, yet I don't doubt his salvation.
I think the way Obama is working out his salvation looks a lot different than we're used to - he gets worked up about some things that the average evangelical doesn't really emphasize, and fails to get worked up about some things that most evangelicals care deeply about.
I don't think that's sufficient cause to doubt a man's salvation. There's much that I disagree with him about, but I hesitate to doubt a man's salvation if he believes in sin, redemption, and grace.
Edit: There's a huge difference between being wrong, and being a deceiver. One can accuse him of being wrong, but I get uncomfortable when folks accuse him of deception.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 4:37:18 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
Joined: 11/16/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: davemiller7
We can't "work out" our salvation, not even Obama can do that (he probably can't really walk on water either). We can't be saved by our works alone, only through the atoning blood of Jesus, the Christ.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Even there, I'm not so sure. Obama has spent a considerable portion of his life on social justice issues. I find that to be very Christian.
As far as saying the Christ is not the only means to heaven, C.S. Lewis said that as well, yet I don't doubt his salvation.
I think the way Obama is working out his salvation looks a lot different than we're used to - he gets worked up about some things that the average evangelical doesn't really emphasize, and fails to get worked up about some things that most evangelicals care deeply about.
I don't think that's sufficient cause to doubt a man's salvation. There's much that I disagree with him about, but I hesitate to doubt a man's salvation if he believes in sin, redemption, and grace.
Edit: There's a huge difference between being wrong, and being a deceiver. One can accuse him of being wrong, but I get uncomfortable when folks accuse him of deception.
Sorry-another communications backfire.
I was using the phrase "to work out your salvation" in the Pauline sense when he uses that term in Phillipians 2.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 4:37:34 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
And if he is secretly Moslem, does it matter as far as the office of Prez. is concerned?
The whole dealy is about Obama's honesty, he claims (posted on his website) that he was never raised Muslim, attended muslim schools, etc. etc.
I think honesty is a very important thing to consider in a president.
Thsnks
RC
I agree, it is the honesty and his stance on moral issues, and not the whole raised muslim or not issue that really matters. Why do some not see through his constant lying and appeasement of the people when he says what he needs to say, in order to staunch a storm. He is not an agent of any change that we really want in the office of president. Not to mention he has not shown the ability to change anything but his position on issues.
So everyone who reads this knows, I don't support McCain either, and I personally feel that the only way to change this government is to completely tear it down, and start over. One liar is no better than another.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 4:41:07 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMDI personally feel that the only way to change this government is to completely tear it down, and start over. One liar is no better than another.
LOL - Old song by "The Who" comes to mind - "here comes the new Boss, same as the old Boss."
All politics is basically the study of the same old dysfunction. Can't live with it, and it's anarchy without it.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 4:44:14 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tracydolls
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,370588,00.html
"""By many measures, Americans are strongly religious: 92 percent believe in God, 74 percent believe in life after death and 63 percent say their respective scriptures are the word of God."""
quote:
quote:
At this point he is just about as much "christian"as alot of americans. 92% claim it.
92%... I highly doubt that pulled out of the air number... I doubt 92% of the people on this forum are Christians...
quote:
Why not claim it and capture those 92% of americans votes.
Probably because that number doesn't mean anything...
Tracydolls,
believing in God, and being Christian are 2 totally different things. But I understand what you mean.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 4:52:56 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Even there, I'm not so sure. Obama has spent a considerable portion of his life on social justice issues. I find that to be very Christian.
As far as saying the Christ is not the only means to heaven, C.S. Lewis said that as well, yet I don't doubt his salvation.
I think the way Obama is working out his salvation looks a lot different than we're used to - he gets worked up about some things that the average evangelical doesn't really emphasize, and fails to get worked up about some things that most evangelicals care deeply about.
I don't think that's sufficient cause to doubt a man's salvation. There's much that I disagree with him about, but I hesitate to doubt a man's salvation if he believes in sin, redemption, and grace.
Edit: There's a huge difference between being wrong, and being a deceiver. One can accuse him of being wrong, but I get uncomfortable when folks accuse him of deception.
No offense, but I do not get uncomfortable calling him a deceiver. You know if it quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck.....
By the way, if Jesus says I am the way, how are we to then claim there are other ways? What right do we have in that regard? Is He not the one who bore our punishment? Is He not the one who died for our sins? Then He is the only one who is able to tell us the way, and He has.
It is really disturbing to see how many Christians are backing this guy. By the way, if you make deceiving statements, then you are a deceiver.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 4:58:15 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMDI personally feel that the only way to change this government is to completely tear it down, and start over. One liar is no better than another.
LOL - Old song by "The Who" comes to mind - "here comes the new Boss, same as the old Boss."
All politics is basically the study of the same old dysfunction. Can't live with it, and it's anarchy without it.
I agree. Absolute power corrupts absolutely, is that how the saying goes. It hasn't really mattered who was in office and what religion they claimed, they have all lied and cheated the American people, and I see no difference with either McCain or Obama. The only difference is, I totally disagree with everything Obama says.
I also hate hearing how they really know what the American people want, when they obviously have no idea, and don't listen to what we have to say. Like how we want to drill here, and Obama says no.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 5:05:34 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
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Regarding deception, maybe it's just language then. To me, a deceiver would be someone with the intent to deceive. One can be wrong, and people can be deceived as a result, without necessarily having the intent.
Personally, I would require evidence of the intent to deceive before I would go that far. Different people would use the word differently and have logically different standards of proof in this regard.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 5:16:40 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Regarding deception, maybe it's just language then. To me, a deceiver would be someone with the intent to deceive. One can be wrong, and people can be deceived as a result, without necessarily having the intent.
Personally, I would require evidence of the intent to deceive before I would go that far. Different people would use the word differently and have logically different standards of proof in this regard.
I just looked up deceiver in the dictionary and it had a picture of Obama holding a Koran right there. JJ,
Main Entry:
de·ceive Listen to the pronunciation of deceive
Pronunciation:
\di-ˈsēv\
Function:
verb
Inflected Form(s):
de·ceived; de·ceiv·ing
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French deceivre, from Latin decipere, from de- + capere to take — more at heave
Date:
13th century
transitive verb1archaic : ensnare
2 aobsolete : to be false to barchaic : to fail to fulfill
3obsolete : cheat
4: to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid
5archaic : to while awayintransitive verb: to practice deceit; also : to give a false impression
<appearances can deceive>
And how exactly do we know his intent?
I would say his intent is to get elected at all costs, and at the expense of honesty? Just me and my humble opinion.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 5:24:30 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
Joined: 11/16/2007
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Opinions are fine. I've got no problem with opinions. I have yet to meet a person on this forum without them. 'Tis what makes it fun.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 5:37:53 PM
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SavedByGraceMD
Posts: 666
Joined: 2/13/2008
From: the poconos
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quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Opinions are fine. I've got no problem with opinions. I have yet to meet a person on this forum without them. 'Tis what makes it fun.
But fun does not make it any easier to discern the true character of old Barry now does it. Morally I can not support this man, politically I can not support this man, and in an argument I can not support this man. In all reality, his stance or moral issues, and the company he has kept has shown us his character, and the outcome is not good. But he promises change, so lets vote for him, and a vote for McCain is a vote for 4 more years of Bush, so lets vote for el diablo instead. If he wasn't running for president I would not have a problem with his morality. But he is, so there is a problem.
_____________________________
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/26/2008 5:56:08 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2129
Joined: 11/16/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Opinions are fine. I've got no problem with opinions. I have yet to meet a person on this forum without them. 'Tis what makes it fun.
But fun does not make it any easier to discern the true character of old Barry now does it. Morally I can not support this man, politically I can not support this man, and in an argument I can not support this man. In all reality, his stance or moral issues, and the company he has kept has shown us his character, and the outcome is not good. But he promises change, so lets vote for him, and a vote for McCain is a vote for 4 more years of Bush, so lets vote for el diablo instead. If he wasn't running for president I would not have a problem with his morality. But he is, so there is a problem.
The fact that the forum discussions are fun doesn't make it easier at all. Not this or anything else. But, I look, I learn, I read and I listen. I make my best choice, do what I can, and move on. The rest is in the Lord's hands. In the meantime, having done what I can, I'll enjoy the good discussion and see what else I might learn.
That's the fun.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/27/2008 9:44:50 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3418
Joined: 4/11/2005
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off topic but why is Bo, called Barry? I have wondered this for a long time. I call him Bo, not because of percieved body odor, but because I used to have a hard time with his name at first. I would say Obama Barrack, it was har for me. I know a guy named Stanley wheeler, or is it wheeler Stanley, I mean sort of know him. I always turn it around. 
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/27/2008 11:29:10 AM
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davemiller7
Posts: 715
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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The problem with requiring evidence before............ By the time we see the evidence, it's going to be too late. His flip-flopping on matters, general sneakiness regarding Rev Wright et al., avoiding any definite statements on what change would incorporate, etc., means to me that I can't trust him.
-Dave
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Personally, I would require evidence of the intent to deceive before I would go that far. Different people would use the word differently and have logically different standards of proof in this regard.
_____________________________
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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RE: Obama outed as Muslim by His Brother - 6/27/2008 6:51:00 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 1668
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SavedByGraceMD
quote:
ORIGINAL: GroupW
Opinions are fine. I've got no problem with opinions. I have yet to meet a person on this forum without them. 'Tis what makes it fun.
But fun does not make it any easier to discern the true character of old Barry now does it. Morally I can not support this man, politically I can not support this man, and in an argument I can not support this man. In all reality, his stance or moral issues, and the company he has kept have shown us his character, and the outcome is not good.
But he promises change, so let’s vote for him, and a vote for McCain is a vote for 4 more years of Bush, so lets vote for el diablo instead. If he wasn't running for president I would not have a problem with his morality. But he is, so there is a problem.
Greetings,
The reason why I have no support for BO is before any of this was even mentioned in the forum, it was the first time I heard him speak. Basically, before I even knew who he was.
I was sitting in another room on the computer and my wife was watching some kind of news on the TV, so I was listening and I came out abruptly and said to her, who is this ....What a Muslim, is running for president?? 
So it was that first revelation I received is what I am keeping in this election...not necessarily because he may be influenced in the way of the world; .....but that the revelation spoke more of something being a little off key...so to speak! 
quote:
In all reality, his stance or moral issues, and the company he has kept have shown us his character, and the outcome is not good. If he wasn't running for president I would not have a problem with his morality. But he is, so there is a problem. Agreed!
1 Thessalonians 5:16-22
16 Rejoice always, 17 pray without ceasing, 18 in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. 19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not despise prophecies. 21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.
quote:
the company he has kept have shown us his character
22 Abstain from every form (the company he has kept) of evil.
By pushing to be everybody’s man for the Job is a dead give away of his Biblical understanding… or maybe he knows very well what he is doing?? 
I mean…. I believe there is an old saying By his examples and the policies he supports alone; that says something like…. a fair -weather friend,
Meaning....the world is beginning to censor Christianity, so then the way of the world is the way to go…. everybody’s man for the Job ….
AND.
He supports the fair•ness doc•trine Definition:
Principle of equal media exposure: the principle that licensed broadcasters should give equal air time to opposing views on controversial issues (on Faith Based programs)
That is in part of how Islam by Definition: 1. converts people or countries…. to Islam
2. make subject to Islamic law: to cause people, (influence by $$ to Porn, Drugs, Homosexuality, etc) institutions,(by college chairs and childrens books) or countries to follow Islamic law
(by elections) =$$Democrats)
Create the problem…. then institute the better way,= the lie.
And that principal is as the Bible said
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the “working” of Satan,
….with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send “them” strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
God will send them strong delusion, but it doesn’t fool Gypsy!
And if we place the Democratic Party’s fair•ness doc•trine for 1... on the Islamic scales,
the Bible says they are
MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN.
26 This is the interpretation of each word.
If I may…
Mene: God has numbered your kingdom, USA in the hands of the Democratic
Tekel: Their obvious policies have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting;
Peres: Your kingdom has been divided, and is about to be given to the Medes and Persians."
LOL!!
Now on the other hand according to the “working” of Satan, whose best work is the catch 22 ….would be the deliberate act on BO or the Democratic party for the purpose to elect the real beast,…. 
Either way..... the catch may be like the dew of herbs; in season; such as dew occurs at the correct time and temperature ….according to the principal in the prophecy of
Isa 26:19 - Show Context
Your dead shall live; Together with my dead body they shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in dust ;( Lu 21:28)...... for your dew is like the dew of herbs, (also occuring at the correct time)
And the earth shall cast out the dead
I didn’t mean to ruin anybodies supper  ….but I am having a great time with this election!!!
LG
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Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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