Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (Full Version)

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Karaboo2 -> Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/18/2008 5:23:37 PM)

I was shocked when I read this article today ... a court of law overturned a parent's decision to ground his daughter because she violated the home internet rules. What do y'all think??? (I'm just glad they are trying to appeal the ruling!)

Court Overturns Father's Grounding of 12 year old





(Mods, I put this in parenting because of the subject ... if you feel it belongs somewhere else, please move it .. thanks!)



Roberta_ -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/18/2008 5:35:52 PM)

uh..... my 15 yo dd is currently grounded from the Internet at least until school starts for similar events. Once school starts back up she's only going to be allowed on for homework. She knows that. She's not happy about it, but she's finding life will still go on.



kohls356 -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/18/2008 6:12:14 PM)

There must be some other problems going on in that family if a child would take their parent to court in the first place. It is no wonder some kids are the way they are when a parent can't even ground their child as a form of discipline.



Karaboo2 -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/18/2008 6:14:25 PM)

I noticed the line which said the gal used a lawyer from the parent's custody trial, so maybe her dad was awarded custody and she would rather live with mom ... and this is her way of retaliating??? Just a thought ...

Still -- the fact that this even MADE it to court makes me question the whole judicial system!!!



Focusing -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/18/2008 6:22:26 PM)

That is flat unacceptable!! Any lawyer who would take on a case ... shame on them! Any judge who would even entertain the idea of such a case ... double shame on them!!

I am horrified at the extent and obnoxiousness of such frivolous "lawsuits". A "case" like this should never have been permitted!


I put "lawsuits" and "case" in quotes because I refuse to consider them real. People need to be responsible, and the legal system needs to allow parents their right to punish their children in appropriate ways.


And for the record, I would not allow my son to go on a school field trip for disobeying me.



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/18/2008 11:31:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kohls356
There must be some other problems going on in that family if a child would take their parent to court in the first place. It is no wonder some kids are the way they are when a parent can't even ground their child as a form of discipline.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kohls356
There must be some other problems going on in that family if a child would take their parent to court in the first place. It is no wonder some kids are the way they are when a parent can't even ground their child as a form of discipline.

It was worth repeating twice, just in case someone didn't get it.



Auben -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/18/2008 11:31:41 PM)

There's not information about what the school function was. Obviously the judge felt the function was important to the child's education.

I don't know if I'd agree or not since they didn't print that information.

One of the great things about the judicial system (and I assume Canada has this as well) is the ability for cases to be appealed. It takes some of the power away from single judges.



lexie -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/19/2008 8:17:28 AM)

Before I started reading the article, I thought, this must have happened in Quebec. [;)]

I agree that there is obviously more to this story. What 12 year old would think to take their parents to court over a matter like this if there isn't instability elsewhere in the home. And a 10 year custody battle in my mind cannot be civil or running smoothly.



IonMoon -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/19/2008 8:55:15 AM)

quote:

Quote from the article:

Beaudoin noted the girl used a court-appointed lawyer in her parents' 10-year custody dispute to launch her landmark case against dear old dad.


I don't know anything about the legal system in Canada, but in the US, custody courts can make a ruling about anything.

So... I don't see this interfering with parental rights in general. And I do hope that on appeal the judge will be a little more intelligent!

Tara P



laura... -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/20/2008 3:32:59 PM)

If I were dad I'd solve this problem by selling the computer.



laura... -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/20/2008 3:53:09 PM)

Here's an article with a more detail: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/06/19/father-court.html

I would still sell the computer.



sen10tious -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/20/2008 11:29:55 PM)

I wonder how the judge would rule if someone posted inappropriate pictures of her online?
I'd hate to think she'd be a hypocrite.



MyCatSmokey2006 -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/22/2008 11:46:25 PM)

What is this world coming to? It's bad enough that spanking a child is considered child abuse, now you can't even ground them either! What's next, being put in jail for giving your toddler a time out because of a temper tantrum? [:@][&:]



pbaribeault -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/23/2008 12:02:52 AM)

My understanding is based on this quote:
quote:

"No matter who has custody, we have joint parental authority... There are issues of discipline where both parents have to agree, and if they don't, we will have a place to resolve the issue in court.


What that says to me is that provincial law holds both the custodial and non-custodial parent to have authority over a child under custodial tension. Both have the right to a say in discipline situations. That's a good and fair thing in the abstract, and it is probably fairly workable.

So, the court must mediate a reasonable compromise of discipline strategies, if the two parents can't agree on something to do as a response to problem behaviour. This would be a particularly important role if the custodial parent is being a bit of a bully and wanting their way alone, simply because the child lives mostly at their home.

In this case, the judge had to make sure that both parents wishes for their child were weighed and accounted for in the parenting decision for a child under custodial tension. It does not mean that the law is deciding what punishments are appropriate or inappropriate for parenting in general.



daughter_of_faith -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/23/2008 11:27:02 AM)

That's sure how the article comes across though and it's completely ludicrous!!! Like Melissa said...we can't spank our child anymore...now we can't ground them either?

Wow...[&:]



Covaan_Meshuga -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/23/2008 11:59:52 AM)

As a non-spanking mom and grandmother, who will not spank, I did occasionally had to use grounding in order to make a point and teach a lesson to my children. However, if my 12-year-old had gone on a dating site I would have had a cow. If she had put inappropriate photos on the site, that would have been the end of her access to a computer without my sitting beside her until she had shown herself mature enough to handle it.

Good night, I had it easy rearing my children. I cannot even fathom what parents go through today with this easy access children have to the very weapons against themselves. When my children were this age, the worst I had to deal with were school yard bullies and a couple out-of-control teachers.



SteveSund -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/23/2008 4:33:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
In this case, the judge had to make sure that both parents wishes for their child were weighed and accounted for in the parenting decision for a child under custodial tension. It does not mean that the law is deciding what punishments are appropriate or inappropriate for parenting in general.



Good point. If non-married parents (with joint custody) are unable or unwilling to come to some kind of agreement as to discipline, then the court will have to step in a craft some kind of solution. Unfortunately, this is an area where they are not always well suited.



colliefan -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/27/2008 5:18:25 PM)

Don't come to this "neck of the woods" 'cause I don't have kids (dogs don't count) but this ruling is chilling. Especially since justices such as Darth Vader Ginsberg says she consults the laws of other countries to make her decisions.

Barry is very much in favor of the Nanny State so a similar ruling may soon be issued from a like-mined judge here in the USA. Very likely, it could come from the 9th Circus Court.



pbaribeault -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/27/2008 11:22:05 PM)

I'd be extremely surprised if some part of your (American) justice system does not currently mediate between parents who have joint custody of a minor. It's very much a normal part of any family justice system. If they don't, that would be very confusing.

Does joint custody and/or parental authority not exist in the US? What happens when parents disagree... do they just keep fighting about it forever? Does the 'best' bully get their way, and nobody stands up for what the other parent considers important or appropriate?

This ruling did not overturn, ban or criminalize this or any other discipline decision. It simply made sure that both parent's wishes were taken into account. It sets no precedent about the punishment itself. In any family where both parents wanted the grounding, or if the family were intact, no court would have been involved. They were only involved due to the custody situation, and it was all about that family's individual tensions.



IonMoon -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/28/2008 11:43:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
I'd be extremely surprised if some part of your (American) justice system does not currently mediate between parents who have joint custody of a minor.


You are correct, they do.

quote:


This ruling did not overturn, ban or criminalize this or any other discipline decision. It simply made sure that both parent's wishes were taken into account. It sets no precedent about the punishment itself.


Yes. But when these rulings hit the news, people always over-react. There was one a few years back where the judge disallowed the parent from smoking in his home/car & I have ehard of a few involving home schooling/choice of school.

These rulings have nothing to do with the court having control over families in an intact home or parental rights in general- family courts can make rulings about every little thing. It doesn't affect the rest of us in any way!

Tara P



daughter_of_faith -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/29/2008 6:45:37 PM)

It's now illegal to smoke in a car if a minor child is also in said vehicle. At least that's the law that was passed in California. I believe it's a secondary offense (meaning they can't pull you over for it, but they can issue a citation for it if you are found smoking with said child in car).

The thing is...the news articles do not make it sound like a custody dispute one iota. It makes it to sound as though the GIRL took the case to court because SHE didn't like her dad's decision.



pbaribeault -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (6/30/2008 11:07:19 AM)

Yes, the media is really good a 'spin' -- creating interest and fear.

For a (slightly) less sensational view, I suggest you read the CBC article linked to in post #11 by Laura (thanks Laura)

This is mediation & moderation, enforced by a court because parents can't be reasonable. Pure and simple.



daughter_of_faith -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (7/1/2008 9:24:34 AM)

Yeah, I read it. They still make it out as the dad doesn't have authority over the child...or at least that is what it seems.



pbaribeault -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (7/1/2008 9:44:46 AM)

The dad doesn't have sole authority over the child.

Both parents have authority and must share it.

That's the law in that province regarding every child under custodial tension.

The mom retains her authority even when she is not holding custody, and the court enforces that her voice be heard, her opinions respected and her authority taken into account.



e0602 -> RE: Court Overturn's Choice of Parental Discipline (Grounding) (7/1/2008 2:38:21 PM)

This is absolutely ridiculous! The courts should not take away parental discipline in an instance where there is no child abuse present. This guy was actually being a GOOD Parent & protecting his child from getting into trouble with heaven only knows what kind of people on those type of sites. I agree it seems as if they are taking away parental rights. What about all the parents out there who are NOT monitoring what their kids are doing on the inet???? I would prefer they get in trouble with the law than some innocent guy who can't discipline his child & protect her from harm.



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