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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 12:50:42 AM
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Flintejae
Posts: 1213
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I personally feel disgusted, annoyed, discouraged and saddened by the whole ordeal. I will tell you that my 'stalking thread' was a GREAT source of encouragement for a while. I was on bed rest, scared, overwhelmed, and had TONS of questions pre and post delivery.
I hate drama and that's all this is. It's sad and has taken the wind out of my 'lets check crosswalk' today sails. Why would I want to be around all this drama? I think it's sad all the way around for everyone.
_____________________________
- Janine
"Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 1:40:46 AM
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PinkCarnations
Posts: 10801
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
I do use the sub list all the time.
There were people who were not happy with the decision to put the threads in PFY because of all the "wading through" the other threads in PFY. We were told to use our sub list. It seems that was an issue for those who wanted the change. They didn't want to "wade through" all of those threads in WO-PI. The sub list works great both ways (when it's working!).
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 1:42:02 AM
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firefightermama
Posts: 672
Joined: 10/24/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline
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Ladies, as your opinions have been shared, (over and over) As the OP, I think we should curb the conversation until something changes.
I think the overall request for a subfolder is clear.
_____________________________
~yolanda~
"I wish I was a glow worm, cuz glow worms are never glum.
How can you be grumpy when the sun shines out your bum?
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 3:45:28 AM
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manda59
Posts: 8197
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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What many still seem to be missing is that it's not primarily what was done (because that is the prerogative of the board owner), but *how* it was all done. And I don't mean about the posts being moved then deleted without warning.
What I am referring to is what ALSO happened: that all you ladies who say you either have already mentioned it to admin, or have felt like this for a while - WHY ON EARTH didn't you come and post in the Women's Forum and say "Hey guys, I think we have a bit of an issue here about all the baby stalking/welcome threads - what do you think we should do?" There could have been a poll - we could have ALL shared our thoughts/gripes/suggestions, then one or two could have reported back to Fritz with a summary of our opinions.
That would have achieved a goal in a civilised and orderly way, and most or all of this could have been totally avoided. The mums would not have been hurt and upset, and Fritz would not have been bombarded like this.
Just try being assertive in future, ladies - far better to speak up than murmur behind the scenes or let it all build up till you go pop.
< Message edited by manda59 -- 6/25/2008 3:52:23 AM >
_____________________________
"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 8:38:22 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4920
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: offline
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quote:
It seems like everyone here, no matter their opinion on the stalking threads, agrees that there should be a mothering subfolder.
There used to a be a "moms" folder. If I recall correctly (which I probably don't, but anyway) when I first came here there was Moms, Family Life, Women's Issues, and Men's Issues. There were a few dads who felt left out, so a Dads folder was created that had very little traffic. Eventually, both the Dads folder and the Moms folder were eliminated, and Family Life was re-named Parenting. It was determined that anything that Moms face could either go in Parenting (if they wanted either gender to contribute to the conversation) or in Women's Issues (if they'd rather talk only to women).
If we go back to having a Moms folder, we're going to have some of the same problems we used to have. Moms will talk about their parenting issues, and dads will feel left out of the conversation. It will be unclear what the difference is between the Moms folder and the Parenting folder.
If we are going to have another subfolder, I vote that we keep it only to topics that dads can't relate to--namely, pregnancy and birth. There won't be a need to have a correlating folder for the men, since men don't get pregnant, give birth, or breastfeed. We could call it "Babies" or "Pregnancy and Birth", and it could be a subfolder in either Parenting or Women's Issues.
In the past, if someone has asked for another folder, the answer has always been determined by how much traffic that folder would get. I think there are enough threads on the topics of pregnancy, birth, post-pardum issues, and breastfeeding to warrant it's own folder. I would also like to propose that it be off-limits to male posters.
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 10:23:23 AM
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solo_soprano23
Posts: 2081
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
What many still seem to be missing is that it's not primarily what was done (because that is the prerogative of the board owner), but *how* it was all done. And I don't mean about the posts being moved then deleted without warning.
What I am referring to is what ALSO happened: that all you ladies who say you either have already mentioned it to admin, or have felt like this for a while - WHY ON EARTH didn't you come and post in the Women's Forum and say "Hey guys, I think we have a bit of an issue here about all the baby stalking/welcome threads - what do you think we should do?" There could have been a poll - we could have ALL shared our thoughts/gripes/suggestions, then one or two could have reported back to Fritz with a summary of our opinions.
That would have achieved a goal in a civilised and orderly way, and most or all of this could have been totally avoided. The mums would not have been hurt and upset, and Fritz would not have been bombarded like this.
Just try being assertive in future, ladies - far better to speak up than murmur behind the scenes or let it all build up till you go pop.
The last time we'd asked, we didn't do it arbitrarily. There was discussion about it then we decided to ask, but just because the majority wants something doesn't mean it happens here. :)
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 10:31:58 AM
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StephK
Posts: 2770
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: manda59
What I am referring to is what ALSO happened: that all you ladies who say you either have already mentioned it to admin, or have felt like this for a while - WHY ON EARTH didn't you come and post in the Women's Forum and say "Hey guys, I think we have a bit of an issue here about all the baby stalking/welcome threads - what do you think we should do?" There could have been a poll - we could have ALL shared our thoughts/gripes/suggestions, then one or two could have reported back to Fritz with a summary of our opinions.
That would have achieved a goal in a civilised and orderly way, and most or all of this could have been totally avoided. The mums would not have been hurt and upset, and Fritz would not have been bombarded like this.
Just try being assertive in future, ladies - far better to speak up than murmur behind the scenes or let it all build up till you go pop.
I am only responding here about the reason why I quit keeping up with the folder in this thread since it is part of the feedback. I have never complained about how the forums were set up or changed or anything like that. I have on occasion mentioned that I didn't care for the one stop threads when it was brought up but other than that I just move on.
< Message edited by StephK -- 6/25/2008 10:38:19 AM >
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 11:26:11 AM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 794
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: firefightermama
Ladies, as your opinions have been shared, (over and over) As the OP, I think we should curb the conversation until something changes.
I think the overall request for a subfolder is clear.
Maybe I'm unclear with the subfolder idea? Is it:
A. To have a subfolder contain all pregnancy, mothering, stalking threads? OR
B. To have a subfolder with the above WITHOUT the stalking threads?
I don't really see the need for a subfolder. There are already threads for Pregnancy, Post-Partum, TTC, Struggling to Conceive, Baby Chat, Breastfeeding as well as a whole host of other topics about female issues.
The only thing that seems debatable to me is the stalking threads being allowed or where they should go, and sadness/anger at them being removed/removed without warning.
I am not unsympathetic to those that lost stalking threads or were looking forward to having one (if you read my previous post, I said that).
I think overall what I am saying is: it's changed, it wasn't our decision, I'm sorry for the losses, but it's done.
If this particular thread has done nothing else it has proven to Fritz and every reader within that THERE IS NO ANSWER THAT WILL MAKE ALL WOMEN HAPPY. If he puts the stalking threads back and allows new, unhappy. If he grandfathers in the ones that were active at removal, unhappy. It seems a no-win to me.
All we've really done (sorry, ladies) is complain about something that is offered to us as a courtesy in the first place. This is the Internet and EVERYTHING CHANGES on the Internet on a routine basis. Websites, yes, even forums change all the time. We either need to accept the changes or not, I guess.
Again I will say that I am sad for those women who lost something valuable to them. But it's done, ladies. Like it or not, it's been done.
(((((LADIES))))))
Jeanie
< Message edited by TwinCityGirl -- 6/25/2008 11:33:48 AM >
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 11:30:07 AM
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LaurainAL
Posts: 285
Joined: 8/13/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
I don't really see the need for a subfolder. There are already threads for Pregnancy, Post-Partum, TTC, Struggling to Conceive, Baby Chat, Breastfeeding as well as a whole host of other topics about female issues.
As well as a General Mommy Thread that is a spinoff of the Baby Chat Thread.
_____________________________
Life Trumps Choice
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 11:38:31 AM
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Mrs.Wifey
Posts: 3402
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The Gorgeous plains of Colorado
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LaurainAL
quote:
I don't really see the need for a subfolder. There are already threads for Pregnancy, Post-Partum, TTC, Struggling to Conceive, Baby Chat, Breastfeeding as well as a whole host of other topics about female issues.
As well as a General Mommy Thread that is a spinoff of the Baby Chat Thread.
The complaint seems to be that there are to many "mommy" related threads in the WO/WO-Personal section. So why not just make a subfolder for everything "mom" related and call it good?
It can keep the same rules we already have about what goes in the mom section and what goes in parenting, except that those who don't want to see the topics or read them can just stay out.
_____________________________
Ryanne- trying hard to be my husband's girlfriend and my daughter's mother.
I'll keep my guns, freedom, and money- you can keep "the change."
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 12:06:10 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4920
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: offline
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quote:
Maybe I'm unclear with the subfolder idea? Is it:
A. To have a subfolder contain all pregnancy, mothering, stalking threads? OR
B. To have a subfolder with the above WITHOUT the stalking threads?
I'd be fine with either. I think if we had a subfolder, and people wanted to have stalking threads, they wouldn't be bothering people who didn't like them or thought they cluttered up the personal issues folder. I'm ambivilant about whether or not they should be allowed. I see both pros and cons of each. Either way, I think a subfolder is an excellent idea.
quote:
Again I will say that I am sad for those women who lost something valuable to them. But it's done, ladies. Like it or not, it's been done.
It can easily be undone, though, if the admin wishes it to be so. Hence the reason for this thread. If there were no point in discussing it, they'd have closed this one down by now.
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 12:19:36 PM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 794
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
It can easily be undone, though, if the admin wishes it to be so. Hence the reason for this thread. If there were no point in discussing it, they'd have closed this one down by now.
Very good point, Lisa.
I, however, am done discussing it. I feel the decision was made for whatever reason, I'm not owed an explanation (free site - they can do what they want with it) so I am accepting their decision and moving on.
I'll say it again, though, I'm sorry for the ladies who have lost something in the transition and I'm sorry it's such a hard blow to so many.
Jeanie
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 12:22:57 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4920
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: offline
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quote:
I, however, am done discussing it. I feel the decision was made for whatever reason, I'm not owed an explanation (free site - they can do what they want with it) so I am accepting their decision and moving on.
That's easy for you do since you disliked the stalking threads to begin with. It's easy to accept a decision if you like it. It's much more difficult to accept a decision if you happen to disagree with it.
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 12:32:31 PM
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TwinCityGirl
Posts: 794
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
I, however, am done discussing it. I feel the decision was made for whatever reason, I'm not owed an explanation (free site - they can do what they want with it) so I am accepting their decision and moving on.
That's easy for you do since you disliked the stalking threads to begin with. It's easy to accept a decision if you like it. It's much more difficult to accept a decision if you happen to disagree with it.
Yes, Lisa, admittedly the changes made were easier and less hurtful to some than to others. I did post in some of the stalking threads, and posted some stuff about my own delivery in one or two of them so technically I lost information/poignant dialogue exchanges, too, but I know that I don't feel emotional about the information going away.
Websites change, and free websites change. My hotmail login page changes constantly. Yes, I know that's an apple-to-an-orange comparison, but if I couldn't log into my hotmail ever again, well, free site. What can you really expect from a free site, and what is owed to you? Are we entitled to more than what is given freely? It reminds me of the old saying "You can't fire a volunteer." Kind of along those lines.
I'm not expecting you to answer those questions or anyone else. I will bow out of the discussion now. For the record (middle child thing again), I do see both sides. For some reason I am just in a place in my own life that I am able to deal with this change very well. (Again, knowing I did not lose what others have lost.)
Jeanie
< Message edited by TwinCityGirl -- 6/25/2008 12:38:50 PM >
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 12:33:43 PM
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manda59
Posts: 8197
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
quote:
What I am referring to is what ALSO happened: that all you ladies who say you either have already mentioned it to admin, or have felt like this for a while - WHY ON EARTH didn't you come and post in the Women's Forum and say "Hey guys, I think we have a bit of an issue here about all the baby stalking/welcome threads - what do you think we should do?" There could have been a poll - we could have ALL shared our thoughts/gripes/suggestions, then one or two could have reported back to Fritz with a summary of our opinions.
Probably because they were afraid of getting ganged up on, so they took it to the admin who is impartial and not emotionally tied to the issue. 
Oh please. This is a message board, remember. 
And a message board that is CAREFULLY and THOROUGHLY moderated. No-one would get away with personal attacks, and you know it. And of course, as well as the Report function, there is also the Block function.
Besides, many if not most of the people who have now voiced their displeasure don't exactly strike me as being backwards at coming forwards.
And even if they were, they could also have pm'd one of the mods and asked them to post the thread for them. It's been done before.
< Message edited by manda59 -- 6/25/2008 12:42:09 PM >
_____________________________
"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 12:59:55 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4920
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
Status: offline
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Does anyone know when we will be able to hear from Fritz?
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 1:13:15 PM
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solo_soprano23
Posts: 2081
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: I'm a Southern girl
Status: offline
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I agree Jeanie. :) I do think that one reason why it wasn't discussed in women's (again) is that the last time it was discussed, it wasn't pretty in the least... at least not as I remember it. I figure women didn't want to have that happen again and went another route. It's understandable because it's an emotional topic and not all agree, but to be honest, sometimes threads like that get hurtful. I don't think anyone was trying to be backhanded or covert, but rather avoid some of what happened in the past.
_____________________________
For God, For Learning, Forever.
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 1:16:59 PM
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LaurainAL
Posts: 285
Joined: 8/13/2005
Status: offline
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I think going to the moderators with the issue was the appropriate thing to do. That is what we are advised to do all the time if we have a problem.
I have learned this the hard way.
_____________________________
Life Trumps Choice
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 1:24:14 PM
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Ps103
Posts: 12136
Joined: 4/16/2005
From: Here, now
Status: offline
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
If the "target" of a thread that was removed wants her thread moved back to PFY--locked or unlocked, as she wishes--this can be done at any time.
Please make the request and we will do this as quickly as possible.
< Message edited by Fritzpw_Admin -- 6/25/2008 3:02:30 PM >
_____________________________
Fasten your seatbelts...it's going to be a bumpy night.
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 1:27:27 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 8024
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Karaboo2
quote:
ORIGINAL: ta_mosquito
I can't answer that question. Sorry. 
Okay, well than CAN you answer this??? I'm not asking if it will be done, just is it possible ... is it technically possible for Fritz to reinstate a deleted thread with all of the posts intact? Or once they are gone are they really gone from everywhere? Once again, not whether they will bring back our threads ... just if it is technologically able to happen.
This is my first post in the thread.
Please bear with me while I wade through the pages here.
In most cases a thread is moved from the public board and can be returned intact to the public board.
Essentially, they are stored in a private holding folder for our review.
These threads were moved to the PFY folder but so many women complained about there being private information in the threads, which have been public anyway all along, that it was decided to remove them from the public.
FYI -- any thread posted anywhere in this forum is open to the public no matter what the title of the folder is. The threads are systematically cached by google and any number of other search engine spiders.
To be clear, anything anyone posts in forums is P U B L I C .
Which is why I like to say:
Don't ever post or say anything on the Web that you don't want your stalker, friend, fiancé, teacher, classmate, band member, employer, employee, church, deacon, pastor, spouse, parent, grandparent, sibling, significant other, child, roommate, teammate, coach, counselor, lawyer, judge, Police, CIA, FBI, Department of Homeland Security, or a carpenter born in a stable to see.
_____________________________
Fred "Fritz" Alberti
Director of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Read today's Bible verse from my favorite online Bible
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 2:47:49 PM
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WhiteRoseBlessings
Posts: 18172
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Here . . . but subject to change; stay tuned
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Fritzpw_Admin
Don't ever post or say anything on the Web that you don't want your stalker, friend, fiancé, teacher, classmate, band member, employer, employee, church, deacon, pastor, spouse, parent, grandparent, sibling, significant other, child, roommate, teammate, coach, counselor, lawyer, judge, Police, CIA, FBI, Department of Homeland Security, or a carpenter born in a stable to see.
Fritz, thank you! I was hoping you would post that here in this thread.
I had thought of trying to find it when you said it before somewhere, but haven't had the time yet to do the search.
_____________________________
❖ Let's Discuss the Advent Season ❖
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RE: Feedback on WO-personal - 6/25/2008 2:55:18 PM
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Fritzpw_Admin
Posts: 8024
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: New Jersey
Status: offline
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Hello everyone,
Let me first express my thanks to the volunteer team for weathering the storm I created when I first moved the threads and then gave the order to come up with a solution that did not involve the threads remaining in WOPI.
Let me be clear, the decisions made were granted my full approval and support. I continue to support the decisions made and thank those who participated in coming up with a solution that met my direction. I want to especially thank Kath and Kate who have worked hard on this project and have taken a considerable amount of flak. You both did a great job.
The WOPI folder was never intended to be used as a PFY folder for women. We do indeed have a folder for threads for specific users. Such threads reside in the folder called Personally For You or PFY for short.
Any person may create a special thread for a specific woman expecting a baby in the PFY folder. In the OP one may make it clear that it is only for women to respond. It is also a good idea to give warning in the OP that the thread may contain information regarding pregnancies that some may find objectionable.
Individuals wishing to follow the threads may use the subscription feature or the bookmark feature. (Please note that these features may not exist on all portals. They definitely exist on the FCN, crosswalk.com, and christianity.com portals.)
For questions of a more intimate nature (water breaking, mucus, etc.) a thread may be started, if it doesn't already exist, in the WOPI folder for THAT particular topic. Bear in mind that if a thread already exists it is better to post in that thread as your thread may be closed if it is a duplicate.
The existing threads were not deleted as some mistakenly claimed. (Making such claims is rarely beneficial or healthy and only contributes to an alarmist attitude that is not welcome. I would urge people to refrain from making these "sky is falling" sort of pronouncments in the future.) As Kate stated, those women wishing to have their "stalking" thread moved back into the public may submit a request. That thread will be moved into the PFY folder.
We continue to review folders and work for ways that best meet the needs of the community. We may not always agree that your solution for a matter is the best solution or even a possible solution but we welcome your feedback and your support of the difficult decisions we make on a regular basis.
_____________________________
Fred "Fritz" Alberti
Director of Social Media
fritz@salemwebnetwork.com
Read today's Bible verse from my favorite online Bible
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