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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 11:27:47 AM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
There is, according to scripture, a difference in being worldly and being in worldly places. We'd almost have to live in a church santuary 24/7 to avoid going to worldly places.
I know of some pretty worldly churches too. We are to be in the world not of it. I,( now this is my opinion), believe that our choices of where we go, what we do, ect is evidence of our heart condition. Ex: Being a delivered alcoholic, if I choose to go to a bar, something is not right in my heart. I'm not saying it works that way for everybody. I haven't said any of my thoughts work the same for everybody, if it fits, wear it. If it doesn't disregard it.
quote:
What if, just what if, giving up me includes following Jesus' command for me to go into a bar to talk with lost souls about Him?
I would suggest you be obedient. However, I don't really believe that he sends us into bars for that purpose. Not that He can't, I just don't think He does, hence my missionary comment.
Seeing how choosing Him is a choice, so is going into a bar or a strip club. If you're ( meaning anybody) not choosing Him, you(anybody) are choosing the world. Every single one of us does this at some point and time-it's called having flesh.
I'm not condemning anyone here, i just think it's something we have to keep in the forefront of our minds as we battle the enemy everyday by and through the choices we make.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 12:42:10 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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Darling, your response to both alcohol and bars is obviously very heavily influenced by your experience, as you admit here. My response to both alcohol and bars is also very heavily influenced by my experience. I hope that you are able to separate such influence from what "thus saith the L-rd."
If experience was not important to life and choices, G-d would have made us all clones from the same types of homes with the same life-influences. But He didn't. There must be some value in this or something we are simply supposed to learn.
Personally, I read how G-d invested much of Himself in separating things from the beginning. This is a subject of interest to me. Perhaps some of maturity as believers includes not just separating ourselves from worldly thoughts and actions but also achieving an expertise in separating our experiences from the purest "thus saith the L-rd."
Since this thread has proceeded this far, I ought to admit that because of over 50 years in a church that taught that all alcohol consumption (including wine, poor Messiah) was sinful, all smoking was sinful, all gambling of any kind was sinful, etc., it is honestly a constant fight for me to keep my head straight regarding these things. It isn't always easy.
But if these things are not in the Bible as sin, then we have to step back and say, "Then it is not sin." If I know that I cannot drink wine, then I must accept that I am the "weaker sister/brother" accepting that I cannot drink wine; however, I cannot put that weakness on others in some attempt to sooth my weakness, nor can I call the one who drinks wine out as being the "weaker sister/brother" because they are free to do something I cannot do.
I am the "weaker sister" with regard to drinking wine. I have a liver ailment that prevents me from drinking it.
I am the "weaker sister" when it comes to smoking. While some pipe-smoking others do does not bother me, other smoking chokes me up and gives me allergy-like symptoms that are unpleasant. As far as that goes, milk does the same thing to me, so I am the "weaker sister" when it comes to milk, too; therefore, it's all things soy and rice.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 12:48:06 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Seeing how choosing Him is a choice, so is going into a bar or a strip club. If you're ( meaning anybody) not choosing Him, you(anybody) are choosing the world. Every single one of us does this at some point and time-it's called having flesh.
I'm not condemning anyone here, i just think it's something we have to keep in the forefront of our minds as we battle the enemy everyday by and through the choices we make.
I have met many men who think the most worldly place in the country is the beach. They battle severe lust even driving near the beach, even worse on it or swimming. Knowing this, would your choice to go to the beach, then, be choosing to be worldly and causing men to sin?
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 1:11:27 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
I hope that you are able to separate such influence from what "thus saith the L-rd."
I believe that I have by stating this is my opinion.
quote:
however, I cannot put that weakness on others in some attempt to sooth my weakness, nor can I call the one who drinks wine out as being the "weaker sister/brother" because they are free to do something I cannot do.
I don't believe I have done that or even implied that. Warning others of the pitfalls is different from deeming them weak.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 1:18:35 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
Seeing how choosing Him is a choice, so is going into a bar or a strip club. If you're ( meaning anybody) not choosing Him, you(anybody) are choosing the world. Every single one of us does this at some point and time-it's called having flesh.
I'm not condemning anyone here, i just think it's something we have to keep in the forefront of our minds as we battle the enemy everyday by and through the choices we make.
I have met many men who think the most worldly place in the country is the beach. They battle severe lust even driving near the beach, even worse on it or swimming. Knowing this, would your choice to go to the beach, then, be choosing to be worldly and causing men to sin?
My choice would most certainly be to go to the beach, their lust problem is not my problem. If lust is such a problem for them, I would highly suggest that they stay away from the beach! That's a no-brainer, unless I misunderstood your question.
If it was a friend of mine that had a lust problem, I would not suggest that he and I go hang out at the beach. i would suggest something less tempting, such as bowling.
Jimbo, we all have our areas of weakness and temptation. Those are our areas to battle, not somebody else's problem. We are responsible for dealing with these temptations. God gives us a means of escape and allows us to take captive every thought. Knowing something is a temptation that can lead me to sin is not a choice I'm going to make. Not knowing what I know now.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 2:35:33 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
My choice would most certainly be to go to the beach, their lust problem is not my problem.
But what about Jesus' and Paul's instructions to consider the weakness of others? Both say their problem is ours if we are the source of their struggle - and falling. Examples:
But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.
-1 Corinthians 8:9 (Paul)
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
-Matthew 18:6 (Jesus)
Note: To "offend" in the Gospels is the same as to cause one to stumble (sin).
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 4:17:28 PM
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McFatty
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The consideration for others' stumbling is spoken about by Paul as it pertains to specific people he was around. He doesn't indicate that we should avoid something on the basis that someone might be offended. However, if someone came up to you and indicated that they were offended (in that way) by your drinking or your wearing swimming clothes, it would be right to modify your behavior around them until they learned the freedom they have in Christ.
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“Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.” – Philippians 4:8
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 4:21:44 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
A very far fetched example. You blamed sin on everyone but the person responsible for it.
How is that different than repeatedly holding up a glass of booze to an alcoholic and wafting it's smell toward them?
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 4:59:09 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
However, if someone came up to you and indicated that they were offended (in that way) by your drinking or your wearing swimming clothes, it would be right to modify your behavior around them until they learned the freedom they have in Christ.
Agreed.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 5:07:26 PM
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deliveredarling
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quote:
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
A very far fetched example. You blamed sin on everyone but the person responsible for it.
How is that different than repeatedly holding up a glass of booze to an alcoholic and wafting it's smell toward them?
No different at all. If an alcoholic is in a bar and is being tempted by the smell being wafted toward's him, A) what is he doing there? B) who's fault is it really that he's being tempted? The bar patrons or him for CHOOSING to be there?
I think I've totally missed the point you were trying to make. If anything you have helped solidify the necessity for responsibility and accountability in the Christian's life.
If one is tempted with a sin of any kind or sort, it is prudent of that person to avoid those temptations. Why is that hard to understand?
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 5:21:24 PM
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JimboFletch
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JimboFletch
quote:
ORIGINAL: deliveredarling
A very far fetched example. You blamed sin on everyone but the person responsible for it.
How is that different than repeatedly holding up a glass of booze to an alcoholic and wafting it's smell toward them?
Let's say that we are in a public setting -not a bar, but in a restaurant, at a birthday party for a friend, or anyplace I have as much right to be as you.
Or do you think God created beaches for people to go lay around or go swimming in less than they'd dare wear except in their own bedroom and that young men have no right being within 50 miles of one?
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/15/2008 11:04:30 PM
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deliveredarling
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You are beating a dead horse here. If a person has a problem with a certain sin, he has the responsibility to avoid those people, places or things, any of which could cause him to stumble.
The average joe can't be responsible for causing someone to stumble if they don't know someone has a problem with it. That would then make us mind readers if we knew every persons weaknesses.
Do you really not get this or are you arguing for arguments sake? These circles are making me dizzy!
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/19/2008 1:01:28 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Covaan_Meshuga
Well, I've learned a few things from this thread. I am so totally ignorant of alcohol and its effects that i feel really stupid about it. I thought, for example, two beers would make the average person very drunk. No wonder I never could get even a buzz, back in the days when I tried, when I was 20 or so. That stuff tasted so bad that I never got past half of a can. And when I tried the harder stuff, it was worse, and I still never got a buzz. I really don't know how people do it.
Now that is only true with people who do not drink in general. There bac would still be the same whether they did drink a lot or not however.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/19/2008 1:17:05 PM
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Cloak
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I used to be too tolerant with hanging out with people who drink or even going to bars and I honestly found out it was really naive. We should keep our standards high and not be too tolerant or condoning even if we do not have drinking problem. When people drink, they tend to do immoral or the least to say unpleasant things.
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And My God shall meet ALL Your Needs according to His glorious riches in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4: 19)
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/19/2008 1:20:12 PM
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humbleinspirit
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It is different if you are going out every once in a while as an afterwork thing, believe me on that, but to each his own conviction.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/19/2008 2:07:36 PM
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drmark
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quote:
There bac would still be the same whether they did drink a lot or not however. Pardon me, humbleinspirit, but I just want to clarify something. A person who does not drink has a blood alcohol content of 0.0 (zero!). The level of BAC is dependent on many factors, including the amount of ethanol consumed.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/19/2008 2:12:52 PM
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humbleinspirit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
There bac would still be the same whether they did drink a lot or not however. Pardon me, humbleinspirit, but I just want to clarify something. A person who does not drink has a blood alcohol content of 0.0 (zero!). The level of BAC is dependent on many factors, including the amount of ethanol consumed.
Now Drmark, you misundertood my post! Whether someone is a regular drinker or just drinks once in a while, whether they are drunk or not, their blood achohol count level would still be the same if they drank 2 beers.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/19/2008 2:51:47 PM
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drmark
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No, that's not correct either. There are other factors which may affect ethanol metabolism besides the amount of alcohol consumed from two beers.
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/19/2008 3:38:16 PM
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humbleinspirit
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Ok, I just thought about this more drmark, you're right, it would all depend on ones metabolism, etc. I was just thinking more in general terms, basically meaning that you would still be drunk after only 2 beers regardless of the above because of how quick alhohol enters and and leaves the system, etc.
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/19/2008 5:02:57 PM
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Covaan_Meshuga
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quote:
ORIGINAL: humbleinspirit
It is different if you are going out every once in a while as an afterwork thing, believe me on that, but to each his own conviction.
Ha! When I was pregnant with my (now 33-year-old) son, I went out with a bunch of women from the office I worked in then. I had never done that before, and I found it very interesting that they started acting silly and boozy after a only couple sips from their drinks! While I knew that was an act, perhaps it did influence me to think that people got drunk on less than is true.
By the way, I only had milk, and when the tab came, they suddenly decided that we should share the tab evenly. Well, thanks a lot.
_____________________________
Abiyah
"Ladies and gentlemen, there are things that you will only be able to learn by the weakest among us, and when you snuff them out, you are the one that loses." ~~Gianna Jesson, 1977 LA, CA, saline abortion survivor
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RE: Being a Christian and being around people who drink. - 7/19/2008 6:45:32 PM
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jo30bell
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We living with many kinds of people. So just follow what is good and not making us as "bad people". If they ask drink, we cant refuse or just drink a little: but dont to be drunk.
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