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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality may be the great Apostacy
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/11/2008 12:22:58 AM
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Dan1138
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One more thing. Do not superimpose a tone upon me that is angered because I am not. I hope to open your eyes.
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My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/11/2008 10:12:43 AM
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ta_mosquito
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Moving this from Prophecy & End Times to Christian Doctrine.
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/11/2008 8:56:39 PM
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colliefan
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The word selah is fond frequently is the Psalms. Aren't we supposed to pause and medidate on what we have just read?
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/13/2008 1:52:45 PM
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Dan1138
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
The word selah is fond frequently is the Psalms. Aren't we supposed to pause and medidate on what we have just read?
There is no opinion on the meaning of Selah that I have heard so please enlighten me as to the source of the definition. The consensus has been that this is a lost word.
As to meditation, in this age of post modernism, the word can mean many things. Please define this word meditation fully since this is the crux of this discussion.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/13/2008 9:03:15 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
There is no opinion on the meaning of Selah that I have heard so please enlighten me as to the source of the definition. The consensus has been that this is a lost word
the word, to use a musical term is a pause, a rest to contenplate, or meditate on what one has just read. Christian meditation is the polar opposite of Eastern meditation. It encourages one to empty one's mind as Christian meditation encourages one to fill it with the truth of God's word.
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/13/2008 9:23:21 PM
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colliefan
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Psa 63:5 - 6 (ESV) 5 My soul will be satisfied as with fat and rich food, and my mouth will praise you with joyful lips, 6 when I remember you upon my bed, and meditate on you in the watches of the night;
Psa 119:15 (ESV) 15 I will meditate on your precepts and fix my eyes on your ways.
Psa 119:23 (ESV) 23 Even though princes sit plotting against me, your servant will meditate on your statutes.
Psa 119:27 (ESV) 27 Make me understand the way of your precepts, and I will meditate on your wondrous works.
Psa 119:48 (ESV) 48 I will lift up my hands toward your commandments, which I love, and I will meditate on your statutes.
Psa 119:78 (ESV) 78 Let the insolent be put to shame, because they have wronged me with falsehood; as for me, I will meditate on your precepts.
Psa 119:148 (ESV) 148 My eyes are awake before the watches of the night, that I may meditate on your promise.
Psa 143:5 - 6 (ESV) 5 I remember the days of old; I meditate on all that you have done; I ponder the work of your hands. 6 I stretch out my hands to you; my soul thirsts for you like a parched land. Selah
Meditation differs from bible study - both are needed and essential - in that meditation is focused on worship,
Take the above passage. Reflect on the days of old. Remember how God never changes and is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Pause here for some time and let that fact envelop you. Do the same with recounting all He has done both in His word and in your life. If it helps write these things down. After doing so, raise your hands in worship. If it helps bow the knee before him. Recount a time when you were so thirsty and needed a drink of cold water. Thank Him he is the Living Water and He satisfies your spiritual thirst
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/13/2008 9:29:24 PM
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colliefan
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Flee for a little while thy occupations; hide thyself for a time from thy disturbing thoughts. Cast aside now thy burdensome cares, and put away thy toilsome business. Yield room for some little time to God, and rest for a little time in him. Enter the inner chamber of thy mind; shut out all thoughts save that of God and such as can aid thee in seeking him. Speak now, my whole heart! Speak now to God, saying, “I seek thy face; thy face, Lord, will I seek.”
Saint Anselm (c. 1033–1109)
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/14/2008 11:16:23 AM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
All Catholics are mystics. All Contemplatives are mystics. All who worship mary mother of Jesus or claim God is in a bread flake called eucharist are heretics. Salvation is not of Mary or eucharist. After you eat God(eucharist) do you poop him out, and then become damned to hell? This is mysticism in greek: mystikos- seeing with the eyes closed. It seems like what Origen, Catholicism, Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross and the Desert Fathers teach is all mysticism. Hidden truth is what they teach like gnostics and nicolaitans. 2 Thessolonians 2:7 "For the mystery"(hidden truth) "of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way." Hidden truth is an alternate translation. NKJV
I must work now.
Dan - Catholics don't worship Mary!!!!!! Just wanted to share that with you this morning!
We do believe that Jesus is present in the Eucharist as we believe that this was what Jesus asked us to do. AS it has been done from the begining, and because Catholics believe they are the oldest Church, and can trace our history to make that claim we can not be called heretical. Although you are free to disagree with the Catholic understanding of scripture, the term heretic simply does not apply to Catholics.
Pax
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/14/2008 6:46:44 PM
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Dan1138
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
There is no opinion on the meaning of Selah that I have heard so please enlighten me as to the source of the definition. The consensus has been that this is a lost word
the word, to use a musical term is a pause, a rest to contenplate, or meditate on what one has just read. Christian meditation is the polar opposite of Eastern meditation. It encourages one to empty one's mind as Christian meditation encourages one to fill it with the truth of God's word.
True, but did you know that there is a movement from the west that parallels the Eastern form that also follows the mystical path and nearly all "christian" denominations are involved at some level. In fact the one they call "Americas' Pastor" has supported Contemplative Prayer.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/14/2008 6:52:30 PM
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Dan1138
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
All Catholics are mystics. All Contemplatives are mystics. All who worship mary mother of Jesus or claim God is in a bread flake called eucharist are heretics. Salvation is not of Mary or eucharist. After you eat God(eucharist) do you poop him out, and then become damned to hell? This is mysticism in greek: mystikos- seeing with the eyes closed. It seems like what Origen, Catholicism, Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross and the Desert Fathers teach is all mysticism. Hidden truth is what they teach like gnostics and nicolaitans. 2 Thessolonians 2:7 "For the mystery"(hidden truth) "of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way." Hidden truth is an alternate translation. NKJV
I must work now.
Dan - Catholics don't worship Mary!!!!!! Just wanted to share that with you this morning!
We do believe that Jesus is present in the Eucharist as we believe that this was what Jesus asked us to do. AS it has been done from the begining, and because Catholics believe they are the oldest Church, and can trace our history to make that claim we can not be called heretical. Although you are free to disagree with the Catholic understanding of scripture, the term heretic simply does not apply to Catholics.
Pax
Immaculate conception can you define this dear Catholic friend. Does the blood of Christ flow through the hands of Mary?
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/14/2008 6:53:29 PM
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soma77
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Thank you for all the great thoughts on meditation. I firmly believe that the incomplete love that we have for Christ means we lack understanding because when we understand something we love it completely. In complete love there is an element of our consciousness that unites us with the love object in deep understanding. This love attraction needs to be refined and purified through constant contemplation.
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/14/2008 7:05:50 PM
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Dan1138
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
There is no opinion on the meaning of Selah that I have heard so please enlighten me as to the source of the definition. The consensus has been that this is a lost word
the word, to use a musical term is a pause, a rest to contenplate, or meditate on what one has just read.
I must disagree. Some say it is a musical term and others say it is a pause, but there is no consensus known en masse. Hebrew scholars please way in.
Yes, intelligent thought of God is permitted and encouraged, but not simply for experience, but to gain knowledge of the character of God.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/14/2008 7:20:53 PM
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Dan1138
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quote:
ORIGINAL: soma77
Thank you for all the great thoughts on meditation.
You're welcome
quote:
I firmly believe that the incomplete love that we have for Christ means we lack understanding because when we understand something we love it completely.
Is our love incomplete? I assume that the "we" means saved men and women. Greater love has no one than this; That he lay down his life for his brother. I have that love. Our purity is incomplete, but agape love comes with salvation? Can you support, from scripture, the idea that our love is incomplete?
quote:
I firmly believe that the incomplete love that we have for Christ means we lack understanding because when we understand something we love it completely.
So if I understand satan, then I will love it completely? If I understand a lie,then I will love it completely? If God understands sin he will love sin completely? Preposterous!!!
quote:
In complete love there is an element of our consciousness that unites us with the love object in deep understanding.
Please support this from scripture.
This love attraction needs to be refined and purified through constant contemplation.This is the subtle line between biblical meditation using your whole mind, soul, strength and lusty seeking of experience in selfish, self worship Yuck!
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/14/2008 9:34:58 PM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
Immaculate conception can you define this dear Catholic friend. Does the blood of Christ flow through the hands of Mary?
Sure - I'll send you a PM (tomorrow) as its off topic here. 
_____________________________
Blessed be Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/14/2008 10:38:32 PM
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colliefan
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quote:
but to gain knowledge of the character of God.
but there is a vast difference between head knowledge and experiencal knowledge
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/15/2008 8:20:07 AM
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Dan1138
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quote:
ORIGINAL: colliefan
quote:
but to gain knowledge of the character of God.
but there is a vast difference between head knowledge and experiencal knowledge
Very very true. That is why God will take a particular Christian through much trouble and another Christian will seem to be healthy, wealthy and wise. The classic example is Job, but I prefer Hosea. The importance is that we meditate with heart mind strength and soul on God and that we do not neglect the other Christian disciplines.
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/15/2008 9:03:32 AM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
Immaculate conception can you define this dear Catholic friend. Does the blood of Christ flow through the hands of Mary?
Sure - I'll send you a PM (tomorrow) as its off topic here.
You can post a reply to me question here. It goes to whether Catholicism is a mystical heresy. This will not become the second coming of Luther I promise you, but the question is salient. Adoration and the eucharist are both mystical practices. Many non-Catholics are seeing visions of mary or a "christ" image in adoration. The practice of adoration closely resembles eastern and near western meditative practices. Furthermore as the OP states mysticsm and Contemplative Prayer may be the Great Apostacy that causes the multitudes to fall away in the last days. This mystical practice may even drive people toward the Catholic Church. So I think an answer here is appropriate. Most people even Catholics are unaware of the Catholic heresies. The same can be said for other religions.
Okay if you think it fits I don't mind answering here.
The Catholic Church believes that Mary was conceived without Sin. Many people confuse this doctrine with that of the virginal conception of Christ, but the two are different. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception teaches that Mary, by GOD'S grace, was preserved from all stain of original sin and that she herself never sinned. When the doctrine was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX in 1854, he explained that Mary shared in the redemptive act of Christ in that she was saved by the foreseen merits of Christ. The Immaculate Conception is rooted in Scripture passages like Luke 1:28 (Mary is "full of grace"). It was taught through sacred Tradition and believed universally Catholics before being defined as dogma (official teaching) by the Church. ("We believe .... A Survey of the Catholic Faith" Oscar Lukefahr, C.M.)
Sorry to quote a book but its a good definition and I am on my way off to work.
Have a Nice Day!
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Blessed be Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/15/2008 9:37:43 PM
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Dan1138
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
quote:
ORIGINAL: Catholicandloveit
quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
Immaculate conception can you define this dear Catholic friend. Does the blood of Christ flow through the hands of Mary?
Sure - I'll send you a PM (tomorrow) as its off topic here.
You can post a reply to me question here. It goes to whether Catholicism is a mystical heresy. This will not become the second coming of Luther I promise you, but the question is salient. Adoration and the eucharist are both mystical practices. Many non-Catholics are seeing visions of mary or a "christ" image in adoration. The practice of adoration closely resembles eastern and near western meditative practices. Furthermore as the OP states mysticsm and Contemplative Prayer may be the Great Apostacy that causes the multitudes to fall away in the last days. This mystical practice may even drive people toward the Catholic Church. So I think an answer here is appropriate. Most people even Catholics are unaware of the Catholic heresies. The same can be said for other religions.
Okay if you think it fits I don't mind answering here.
The Catholic Church believes that Mary was conceived without Sin. Many people confuse this doctrine with that of the virginal conception of Christ, but the two are different. The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception teaches that Mary, by GOD'S grace, was preserved from all stain of original sin and that she herself never sinned. When the doctrine was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX in 1854, he explained that Mary shared in the redemptive act of Christ in that she was saved by the foreseen merits of Christ. The Immaculate Conception is rooted in Scripture passages like Luke 1:28 (Mary is "full of grace"). It was taught through sacred Tradition and believed universally Catholics before being defined as dogma (official teaching) by the Church. ("We believe .... A Survey of the Catholic Faith" Oscar Lukefahr, C.M.)
Sorry to quote a book but its a good definition and I am on my way off to work. Have a Nice Day!
I don't mind quoting books because we have a basis for the continuity of thought. So let me quote Luke:
Luke 1
Jesus' Birth Foretold
26Now in the sixth month the angel (AG)Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee called (AH)Nazareth,
27to (AI)a virgin engaged to a man whose name was Joseph, (AJ)of the descendants of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
28And coming in, he said to her, "Greetings, favored one! The Lord is with you."
29But she (AK)was very perplexed at this statement, and kept pondering what kind of salutation this was.
30The angel said to her, "(AL)Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God.
31"And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you (AM)shall name Him Jesus.
First no mention of grace in at least three separate versions of the bible. To say that this passage implies prevenient saving grace is heretical.
Pope Pius IX decided this and Pope Pius XII confirmed it in the Mystici Corporis Christi or the Mystical Body of Christ. Visions of Our "Lady" of Lourdes also confirmed Mary's "immaculate" conception. This is doctrine by signs and wonders. This proves that the Catholic church is a mystical body. Monks and Nuns brought us Contemplative prayer.
Galations 1
No Other Gospel
6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/15/2008 9:41:22 PM
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Dan1138
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So we have established that the Catholic church calls Mary mother of Christ sinless and therefor on par with God. I have argued that this is a mystical belief that I argue proves the Catholic church to be mystical and therefor heretical.
The question is do you or any mainstream Catholic believe that the Blood of Christ flows also through Mary's hands?
_____________________________
My Christian walk is like a car ride. "How long Lord. OK I'll be patient......How long Lord!"
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/16/2008 9:17:33 AM
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Catholicandloveit
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Not so fast with the on par with God. If you mean in Gods grace then I agree if you mean equal then I do not.
Is sinning not something all Christians try to avoid? Is God not pleased when we choose not to sin? So if I go to the store and choose to not shoplift (for example) and therefor don't sin do I in that moment make myself on par with God? I say NO! Ones choosing not to sin is not the same as being equal to God.
Interesting that we both quoted Luke.
I thought I answered your question about the blood of Christ in my last post. I'm happy to try again but do me a favor 1st, try and ask the question differently maybe I am not answering what you are asking.
I am also curious in your definition of mystical - mine is - relating to direct communion with God. Not sure how that is bad?
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Blessed be Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/16/2008 9:24:26 AM
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Catholicandloveit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Dan1138
Contemplative Prayer
Seeking spiritual experiences
I would like to know how you define these two items?
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/17/2008 10:27:50 PM
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soma77
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When we’ve come to understand this fact and the interconnectedness of all things, we’ll know love; we’ll know ourselves; and we’ll know peace.
I think Jesus had pure love and we are moving to that point. Some may have pure love, I really don't know that. I know some have more complete love than I. I think the mystical experience increases understanding and expands the concept of love.
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/17/2008 10:33:02 PM
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soma77
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Dan judging others says nothing about the people you judge, but it says a lot about you. Don't be afraid. God is the strongest force and if you walk with God nothing can harm you.
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RE: Contemplative Prayer and New Age interspirituality ... - 7/18/2008 12:29:16 PM
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Ps103
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Since it seems this is really a Catholic thread in disguise, I am closing it.
HERE is a link to the Catholic Discussion Index, where many of the topics you wish to discuss have one-stop threads already. Please join those threads and do not start Catholic topics without permission from Admin.
As for yoga, I would suggest a search through Morailty & Ethics, and if there is not a current thread (I do not believe there is) start a thread about it there.
Thanks!
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
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