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[Poll]
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Did Jesus die to make us good?
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Total Votes : 29
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(last vote on : 8/4/2008 9:51:29 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 7/22/2008 10:02:25 AM
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ta_mosquito
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Along these same lines, there's a hymn we sing on occasion, part of which says something like:
"Others will trust Him if only you prove
True every moment you live"
To me, this puts way too much of the responsibility of "saving others" onto the individual, and if the individual stumbles in their walk, someone will go to hell.  I realize our testimonies ARE important, but it's very important to be real to people, to demonstrate that you don't have to clean up your life before coming to Christ. Christians can mess up, too, but there's forgiveness when we do.
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Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 7/22/2008 10:43:29 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Along these same lines, there's a hymn we sing on occasion, part of which says something like:
"Others will trust Him if only you prove
True every moment you live" On the other hand, how many more folks might come to saving faith if those of us already there would really prove ourselves true in our daily Christian walk?
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 7/22/2008 10:50:52 AM
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semperfidelis
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That phrase used to bug me in a few others songs. Somebody already mentioned that in historical context, "good" meant something different than it does today. Therefore I can agree He died to make us "Good", to bring us to perfection. However, if we're using the "good" to mean, "there is a way that seems right unto man", then I have to completely disagree. True perfection which is humble and full of love (yes, contrary to my/our fallen nature & culture) is the goal.
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The man in the arena....
If I rise and succeed, it's because His hand has lifted me.
I may not have 3 greek letters but I have 2 latin words: SEMPER FIDELIS (no, I'm not a marine, but we like the same things)
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 7/22/2008 11:41:08 AM
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drmark
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quote:
True perfection which is humble and full of love (yes, contrary to my/our fallen nature & culture) is the goal. I suggest that true perfection (or goodness or being made righteous or however you want to label it) is the mechanism to reach the goal. Loving God and neighbor with all our being is the ultimate goal!
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 7/22/2008 11:50:41 AM
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colliefan
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From: Raleigh, NC
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Are we trying to be good through our own efforts? Or, are we allowing the HS to enable us to do good works through the grace in which we stand?
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 7/22/2008 1:15:32 PM
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drmark
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quote:
Are we trying to be good through our own efforts? Or, are we allowing the HS to enable us to do good works through the grace in which we stand? In light of Luke 18:19, how can anyone be good through self effort? Only a good God can make us good in order to do good works through His grace.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 7/28/2008 7:46:26 AM
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DaveW
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Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 7/28/2008 1:36:19 PM
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Little_1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Thanks Dave. This has been mentioned earlier and although goodness will certainly be evident (or should be) in the lives of Christians - " 'Holiness' without which no man will see God" is also worth considering.
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"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer." ROMANS 12:12
Testimony
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 7/28/2008 2:41:38 PM
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drmark
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quote:
although goodness will certainly be evident (or should be) in the lives of Christians - " 'Holiness' without which no man will see God" is also worth considering. Can a Christian be good without also being holy?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 7/29/2008 4:57:16 AM
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Little_1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
although goodness will certainly be evident (or should be) in the lives of Christians - " 'Holiness' without which no man will see God" is also worth considering. Can a Christian be good without also being holy?
My dog is good but he is not holy. I know lots of 'good' people but they are not holy. Holiness is separation unto God. Christians are bought with a price (the blood of Jesus) and separated unto God but not all Christians are walking in holiness - some are walking with the world, e.g. the backsliders (prodigals). Prodigals can still show goodness although they are in a backslidden state, so to answer your question: "Can a Christian be good without being holy?" Yes - if they are backslidden / worldly.
< Message edited by Little_1 -- 7/29/2008 5:05:01 AM >
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"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer." ROMANS 12:12
Testimony
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 7/29/2008 11:17:06 AM
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drmark
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quote:
My dog is good but he is not holy. I know lots of 'good' people but they are not holy. My point exactly, L_1! Neither your dog nor unholy people are Christians! A Christian is considered holy by the imputed righteousness of Christ. A Christian is made holy by the imparted righteousness of Christ. Only Christians made holy can be good!
quote:
Prodigals can still show goodness although they are in a backslidden state, so to answer your question: "Can a Christian be good without being holy?" Yes - if they are backslidden / worldly. You have confused "showing goodness" with "being good". Worldly Christians may perform good actions but they are not good in nature. Only Christians made holy can be good!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 8/1/2008 12:04:45 PM
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mrsrevbob
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(quote)but it's very important to be real to people, to demonstrate that you don't have to clean up your life before coming to Christ. Christians can mess up, too, but there's forgiveness when we do. (End Quote, from Tricia)
Learning a laptop, please excuse
What a refreshing way to witness.
Amen
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 8/1/2008 12:08:33 PM
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mrsrevbob
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quote:
Benny Hinn came on (sorry if this offends anyone... it's just plain truth.)... and he looked straight into the camera and said, "If you don't phone in and make a pledge, the blood of the lost souls out there will be on your hands." (That is pretty darn close to the exact wording.)
That made me sick!
I remember once when Oral Roberts told people on his show that if he did not raise about a million dollars in donations he would not be called home to heaven. That did not sit well with me either.
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 8/2/2008 12:56:51 PM
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makarizo
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did Christ die to make us good is a trick question.
when I admit that I am no good, then I am ready for Christ.
Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me
to me this sounds like a very (make me)good thing.
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 8/4/2008 1:16:58 PM
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Little_1
Posts: 1213
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quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
did Christ die to make us good is a trick question.
when I admit that I am no good, then I am ready for Christ.
Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me
to me this sounds like a very (make me)good thing.
Not sure what you mean makrizo.
_____________________________
"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer." ROMANS 12:12
Testimony
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 8/4/2008 8:51:16 PM
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Ezra
Posts: 1784
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Little_1
"He died that we might be forgiven;
He died to make us good
that we might go at last to Heaven
saved by His precious blood."
Do you agree with the bold and underlined part of line 2 (which obviously refers to Jesus)?
If we keep in mind the Scriptures that say "there is none good but God" and "there is none righteous, no not one" then indeed Christ died to make us good -- as good as He is. We become the righteousness of God in Him when we believe on Him and receive Him.
Why so many would doubt this (as seen in the poll) is really strange. We are perfect, we are being made perfect, and we shall be perfected. Therefore Christ died to make us as perfect or as good as He Himself is. Otherwise we could not enter Heaven.
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And whosoever will, let him take the Water of Life freely. Revelation 22:17
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 8/4/2008 9:15:59 PM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ezra
quote:
ORIGINAL: Little_1
"He died that we might be forgiven;
He died to make us good
that we might go at last to Heaven
saved by His precious blood."
Do you agree with the bold and underlined part of line 2 (which obviously refers to Jesus)?
If we keep in mind the Scriptures that say "there is none good but God" and "there is none righteous, no not one" then indeed Christ died to make us good -- as good as He is. We become the righteousness of God in Him when we believe on Him and receive Him.
Why so many would doubt this (as seen in the poll) is really strange. We are perfect, we are being made perfect, and we shall be perfected. Therefore Christ died to make us as perfect or as good as He Himself is. Otherwise we could not enter Heaven.
I guess it depends on whether you are looking at it from Gods point of view or ours. Yes, God sees us as perfect and good. But is that because we are, or is it because when He sees us He sees Jesus?
Is it us who is good, or is it Jesus in us who is good?
Peace
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"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 8/4/2008 9:44:35 PM
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makarizo
Posts: 2936
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Little_1
quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
did Christ die to make us good is a trick question.
when I admit that I am no good, then I am ready for Christ.
Gal 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me
to me this sounds like a very (make me)good thing.
Not sure what you mean makrizo.
if there is anything good in me at all whatsoever, it came from Jesus. in fact it is no longer me, but Christ Who lives in me....... and He said......
if any man comes after me, let him deny himself take up his cross and follow me. MT 16:24
2nd Cor 5:17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation, the old things have passed away, and alll things become new.
I can do all things thru Christ who strengthens me Phil 4:13
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of the Son.......... Rom 8:29
rom 6:4 we have been buried with Him through the baptism into death so that just like Christ was raise rom the dead, so we too might walk in the newness of life.
there are just a couple verses from memory.... there are many many many more that say the same things.
so the trick in the question is....."what is me" or "what is us"?
my flesh is no good, and never will be, and Christ did not die to make my flesh good........ I will need a new body =)
my flesh is corrupt, and I surrender it to Christ.
and then He works on the inner man so that the good in me is less of me, and more of Him.
but the succinct answer is Christ Died to forgive my sins, and save me from ultimate damnation. to clean me up in newness, to cover me with His righteousness........ Yes, Jesus died to make me all better.
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RE: Did Jesus die to make us good? - 8/5/2008 4:18:40 AM
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Little_1
Posts: 1213
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quote:
ORIGINAL: makarizo
......but the succinct answer is Christ Died to forgive my sins, and save me from ultimate damnation. to clean me up in newness, to cover me with His righteousness........
Good answer.
_____________________________
"Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer." ROMANS 12:12
Testimony
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