RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (Full Version)

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Crushmaster -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (9/14/2009 12:30:23 PM)

quote:

benelchi

It makes no distinction between "usurping authority" (i.e. taking an authoritative role that one had no right to take) and "having authority" (holding a position of authority that one was given the right to hold). One is an example of a "power grab" and the other is an example of submitting to the authority of the church leadership.

This argument doesn't work, sir. ANY woman who takes the position of deacon, elder, pastor, whatever in the Church, teaching men and leading men, are usurping authority, as they have no right to do that - the leadership position is given to men, outside or inside of the Church.
(1 Corinthians 11:3) - "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

Furthermore, sir, reading it in this manner, you pretty much have to say the Church has been wrong for about the past 1,900 years!
God bless,
Crushmaster.



myka -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (9/14/2009 3:14:22 PM)

quote:

This argument doesn't work, sir. ANY woman who takes the position of deacon, elder, pastor, whatever in the Church, teaching men and leading men, are usurping authority, as they have no right to do that - the leadership position is given to men, outside or inside of the Church.


Um, we are talking about the actual words of the Bible; it isn't an interpretation by a person, but the words of God. The word indicates taking power upon oneself outside the authority structures that are in place and acting independently of the structures.



TheosCentric -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (9/24/2009 11:15:35 AM)

D.A. Carson explains "I do not permit" (video):

http://www.cbmw.org/Blog/Posts/Carson-on-1-Timothy-2-Permit#



cleighw -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (9/28/2009 1:27:50 PM)

well Aquilla and Pricilla sure preached to Apollos. These ladies were of great help to this preacher.



benelchi -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (9/28/2009 1:41:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheosCentric

D.A. Carson explains "I do not permit" (video):

http://www.cbmw.org/Blog/Posts/Carson-on-1-Timothy-2-Permit#



The problem here is that the debate is not about whether Paul "permitted" or "did not permit" anything; it is about exactly what it was that Paul was not permitting. It is interesting that that part of D. A Carson's speech was cut off. I suspect it is because the author of this page did not like what D. A. Carson had to say on that point.



TheosCentric -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (9/28/2009 2:40:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: benelchi

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheosCentric

D.A. Carson explains "I do not permit" (video):

http://www.cbmw.org/Blog/Posts/Carson-on-1-Timothy-2-Permit#



The problem here is that the debate is not about whether Paul "permitted" or "did not permit" anything; it is about exactly what it was that Paul was not permitting. It is interesting that that part of D. A Carson's speech was cut off. I suspect it is because the author of this page did not like what D. A. Carson had to say on that point.


Actually, I would suspect that it had to do with the fact that part 2 is being planned and hasn't been posted yet. It actually says that this was a first in a series of clips on the page. Don't be so presuming.



TheosCentric -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (9/28/2009 2:57:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cleighw

well Aquilla and Pricilla sure preached to Apollos. These ladies were of great help to this preacher.


Aquila and Priscilla were husband/wife. (see Acts 18).



TheosCentric -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (9/28/2009 3:01:14 PM)

2 sermons by John Piper on the passage in 2 Timothy 2:8-15.

Affirms what I've been saying about the use of the word "authority."

Manhood, Womanhood, and the Freedom to Minister
Affirming the Goodness of Manhood and Womanhood in All of Life



TheosCentric -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (9/30/2009 5:02:23 PM)

D.A. Carson on 1 Timothy 2 - "Authority" (video)



buzzbbird -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (10/1/2009 10:41:10 PM)

God uses women, and mightily, from Deborah in Judges and Ruth to Phebe and Priscilla.
What MUST be seen and understood is the REASON that women are excluded from Pastorship and positions of authority. Paul tells us that it is because Eve was deceived, not Adam. Also it is because woman was made for the man, as a help, meet for him, not the other way around.
OK God is God and His reasons for disallowing women are not our reasons for obedience. We are to obey because He said so. If we ask why and base our obedience on the answer, we are placing ourselves above God and judging his reason as insufficient.
The main difference is in and out of the congregation. And, still, there is no authority over men, for the above mentioned reasons.
Women were never used in capacity of ruler of Israel, Prophet, or Apostle and yet they were used to evangelize and teach and expound the Gospel more fully.
Pastors, bishops and elders are to be the husband (disqualifying women) of one women (disqualifying single persons, bigamists, and some say divorced persons)
As nearly all "Christian" churches do not follow the 1 Cor 14 instructions on how we, the church, are to hold our congressional meetings. They still follow the Roman Catholic version of the priesthood.
Is it any wonder with nearly two thousand years of congressional disobedience, that there are 'churches' that are allowing women in the pulpit, and homosexuals... etc?



cposey -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (10/2/2009 1:21:23 PM)

I'm new to this thread,but the topic intrigues me. I can't say i've read all 247 pages, but i have read a few. The issue I have with women being pastors is that why would the church's foundation be any different than that of marriage. Doesn't the bible teach that men and women are joined together, none is greater than the other. However women are to submit to their husbands in matters of leadership.



benelchi -> RE: Women's role in the Church - One Stop Thread (10/3/2009 12:56:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheosCentric

D.A. Carson on 1 Timothy 2 - "Authority" (video)



Did you note the acknowledgment Carson made of the work of other scholars whose work demonstrates problems with his own position? As I look at the evidence for the interpretation offered by Carson here, I must conclude that he has not made his case and has too easily put aside the evidence that contradicts his position; however, I do respect the fact that he does acknowledge (although with a strong bias) the work of other scholars that contradicts the position he presented and this is something that is rarely done by people presenting this same position here in this thread.



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