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Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 1:47:22 AM
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Raptorman
Posts: 36
Joined: 9/21/2005
From: Colorado
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Evening, ladies and gentlemen. Hope you're all having a bessed day. I actually turned 22 today, and already feel a bit "prehistoric." 
In any case, the honest question is something I will try to ask from curiosity, instead of bitterness, though I have experienced some significant blows involving this topic (but I have already spoken at length on those events before). Some Christian dating articles/books/blogs will give some variant of this advice to a girl if she is asked out by a guy she isn't romantically attracted to: "Let him down gently. If you don't think you would make a good couple, make it clear to him that you like him as a friend, but that's as far as you want it to go."
The attitude seems to be that if a guy she isn't attracted to asks her out (even if he is a Christian and of good character), he is like a little puppy whom she simply cannot adopt, no matter how "cute" or "sad" he's acting. Basically, it appears to convey the message, "If the man doesn't fit your checklist for a boyfriend, if you think your goals in life cannot make room for him, or if your schedule is too cluttered, or if you can't see him as your husband later on, it's best to drop his invitation." And so, it becomes all about the girl, instead of also being about the guy asking her.
And at last, the question I ask is as follows: "So, why does it always have to be the guy who needs to give in when a woman says she doesn’t want to date him?" Why must the guy always be the one to "suck it up" and get on with life? Why shouldn't the girl step outside of her comfort zone, occasionally?
I don't ask this from any chauvinistic point of view. Rather, it comes from the opposite position, the idea that the sexes are to treat each other equally, and act sacrificially for each other. But when a decent Christian guy is rejected, it's him who has everything to lose (emotionally), the only one who places bets on the table. He somehow musters the courage to offer his heart up to a girl, and prays that she won't stab it with the dagger of rejection. All he asks for is to be given one chance. Just one date, to see if anything may be worth pursuing. And 99.9% of the time, it took a lot of guts even to overcome his fear of rejection and ask her out to coffee. Why can't a girl honor his courage if it would make her even the least bit inconvenienced? Doesn't it seem at least a little unfair?
I have said things like this before (probably sounding like a broken record at this point), and I am sorry if it seems like I am holding a grudge from past hurts, or if I sound resentful or something. I have no intention of conveying that in asking. But like many things, I am honestly curious as to why the girl should always get her way, instead of standing up and saying "yes," to give the guy a chance. And it would be helpful to understand this better, as a particularly lonely single.
Thanks for your time, everyone.
Kindest regards,
Raptorman.
_____________________________
"Poets have been mysteriously silent on the subject of cheese." - G.K. Chesterton
"If we valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world." - J.R.R. Tolkien
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 8:03:28 AM
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Prairiehiker
Posts: 4175
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Let me bring back the question to you? Would you give a girl that you don't find attractive a chance? I mean, a real chance. Not one of those "calendar filler" dates.
_____________________________
Search me, Oh God, and know my heart
Try me, and know my anxieties;
And see if there is any wicked way in me, and
Lead me in the way everlasting Psalm 139:22-24
-------------------------------------
Go Steelers!!!
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 8:38:05 AM
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FunBetty
Posts: 7016
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From: Land o Cheesecake and Pizza
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Well let me put another view on this as well.
How well do you know this person you would be asking? I'm going to put myself as an example, so please bear with me. I analyze a lot. I usually know when a guy has an interest in me (guys are usually less subtle than girls in this department), so when I sense that interest, I immediately start analyzing whether we would make a good match. In a sense, I watch him kind of like a hawk. Is he consistent in what he says and does? How do our personalities mesh? Do I find him attractive? Am I interested in getting to know him further in a romantic way?
So all this to say that by the time I get asked out, if I know this person by any means, I would already have a greater idea of whether (in my opinion) we would be compatible. Yes, attraction has something to do with it (because why would you want to date someone you aren't attracted to?), but unless you are a complete stranger then other factors would come in as well.
The good news is this: I am always flattered when a guy shows some interest, even if there is no interest on his behalf. I'm not flattered if he turns out creepy or stalkerish (ie. calling a couple of times a day!). You never know unless you take a chance. And if you're going to take a chance, do it on a great girl!
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 8:50:32 AM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 7982
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
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Maybe you aren't asking the right people. I mean, I've said it before but there are very few men that I won't date. Not that I'll date anyone, but I'll give everyone at least one chance to see how things might work out. Most of the time I can figure it out from the first date. Other times we seem to find a few things we're compatible on and make it work until our incompabilities outnumber the compatiblities.
I think there are women like me out there. Women who don't judge a book by it's cover...women who are more than willing to look deeper into a man to see what he's like.
_____________________________
When I've shown you that I just don't care
When I'm throwing punches in the air
When I'm broken down and I can't stand
Will you be strong enough to be my man?
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 9:00:26 AM
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rgod
Posts: 1933
Joined: 4/25/2005
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Happy Birthday! You are definitely not old ... not by any stretch of the imagination  .
Anytime you step out or take a risk, you might get rejected. Women get rejected all of the time. Every time a woman shows interest, the guy picks up on it, but doesn't ask her out for whatever reason, she has been rejected. Or a woman might be out with other women, and the guys hit on the others but not her because of the way she looks. This happens a lot. Even think about yourself. Do you ask out every girl you see? What about every girl in your age range? What about every girl in your age range who is godly? You are probably at some level weeding out people that you think you aren't compatible with, people that you aren't attracted to ... It just happens up front that's all. For women it sometimes happens later because we generally respond to a guys overtures.
But everyone has to deal with rejection. Some women do step outside of their comfort zones and go out with guys they might not be initially attracted to. Sometimes it turns out to be a good thing and sometimes it isn't so good. But really, do want someone who isn't excited about you?
People have preferences. Just because you are rejected doesn't mean that you are a bad person. It can hurt a lot, especially if you like the person. But usually, it just means that the other person is looking for something else.
_____________________________
"The road to the promised land runs past Sinai." - C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain
"It is doubtful whether God can bless a man greatly until he has hurt him deeply." - A.W. Tozer
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 9:00:42 AM
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hotsaucygma
Posts: 5005
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In our culture it is usually the male that asks for a date. He usually doesn't look around and see a girl/woman that he is not attracted to and decides to ask her out anyway, he only asks out a girl that he is initially attracted to. So he already gets to have made his choice. The girl/woman being asked out then has to decide if she is attracted enough to him to accept the date and see if there is the possibility for the attraction to grow.
If she does not think she is attracted enough to accept the date and see where it goes, she is being advised to be kind about it. I don't think that is necessarily wrong, but I do usually advocate that accepting a date, or in the case of the guys- asking someone out, with someone you like but are not necessarily attracted to you may find as you get to know them that they become more attractive to you. I guess it's a "keep an open mind" suggestion from my prespective- maybe better done in group settings rather than single dating situations though, to avoid hurting or "leading someone on".
_____________________________
Arrogance boasts. Confidence is quiet, it has no need to boast.
Wisdom from an email I received a few days ago.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 9:46:37 AM
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Acts29
Posts: 278
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Antoher spin on your question.
From the way I am reading the OP. You are already aware the girl in question is not attracted to you. Sooo why would you ask her out if you know in advance she is not attracted to you.
Also girls do put themselves out there.....it is called flirting. 
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 10:22:53 AM
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John_O
Posts: 7894
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Raptorman
Evening, ladies and gentlemen. Hope you're all having a bessed day. I actually turned 22 today, and already feel a bit "prehistoric."
I've got leisure suits older than you.
quote:
Some Christian dating articles/books/blogs will give some variant of this advice to a girl if she is asked out by a guy she isn't romantically attracted to: "Let him down gently. If you don't think you would make a good couple, make it clear to him that you like him as a friend, but that's as far as you want it to go."
I disagree with them. Nothing like dragging our hearts around and stomping on them every once in a while. If there's no chance for the future just shoot us down quick. "Friends" is the kiss of death.
quote:
And at last, the question I ask is as follows: "So, why does it always have to be the guy who needs to give in when a woman says she doesn’t want to date him?" Why must the guy always be the one to "suck it up" and get on with life? Why shouldn't the girl step outside of her comfort zone, occasionally?
Do you really want to date a girl who wants nothing whatsoever to do with you? Let's say she lets you take her out. The date goes pretty well from your point of view. But inside she is screaming "please take me home and get out of my life I didn't want to go out with you in the first place"
Now you face the same rejection, only worse because you think maybe things are going well, and she has to repent for (and deal with) lying to you in the first place.
How are you going to feel when you ask for the second date and she says "no". Now you've spent your money for nothing. And the sad part is that she knew going in that there would be no second date. Pity dates are almost never successful.
If she doesn't like you enough to date you honestly from the start than you are far better off not wasting your time on her. If God brings her around later fine, but don't hold your breath. Find someone who does like you.
_____________________________
Psalms 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:15:16 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 875
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: 31/M/325[0-9][0-9]
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Raptorman
day. I actually turned 22 today, and already feel a bit "prehistoric."
The attitude seems to be that if a guy she isn't attracted to asks her out (even if he is a Christian and of good character), he is like a little puppy whom she simply cannot adopt, no matter how "cute" or "sad" he's acting. Basically, it appears to convey the
says she doesn’t want to date him?" Why must the guy always be the one to "suck it up" and get on with life? Why shouldn't the girl step outside of her comfort zone, occasionally?
out to coffee. Why can't a girl honor his courage if it would make her even the least bit inconvenienced? Doesn't it seem at least a
I am honestly curious as to why the girl should always get her way, instead of standing up and saying "yes," to give the guy a chance. And it would be helpful to understand this better, as a
Re: being prehistoric - Oh, shut up.
And I say that in the kindest, much older brother way.
Yes, I find that attitude to be quite patronizing and degrading to men.
I agree. It's kind of unfair that we tell men they have to always be the ones who step out and take risks, and women get the luxury of waiting around and either waving away or holding out the scepter to their many potential suitors. I'd go beyond just that women should not consider themselves above dating someone (who isn't obviously defective (e.g., treats her disrespectfully, is obviously married already)) and say that women should sometimes initiate contact and make themselves available to be asked out.
But, I have to remember that men are the ones charged with leadership, and leadership requires risk... but that doesn't make it fair, and it doesn't convey to women this queenly position (You aren't a queen just because you're a princess) that is implied by the idea that women should prejudge men who ask them out without spending any time with them.
I think a woman shouldn't turn down a man for reasons of convenience (busy calendar, can't picture him as her husband without knowing what kind of man he is on the inside, etc.), and if there's a good reason, she should be honest: "I'm in a relationship." "I'm not interested in a relationship with anyone, because I'm going oversees/joining a convent/recently out of a relationship/focusing on school." "I don't want to go out with you because you don't control your temper."
Even if the reason is flaky, she should be honest: "I think you're ugly." "I don't like your tattoos." "I don't like your car."
But definitely not any cop-outs: "God told me you aren't the one." "I think we should just be friends." "I'm washing my hair that night."
Ladies, men take great emotional risk to ask you out at all. You don't have to say yes to every man who asks, but you do owe them your complete honesty. Anything less shows disrespect for the man, for the image of God inside him, and for yourself. A lame excuse cheapens you as a woman and sows in your heart a variance with trust and honesty that will not help you in a real relationship. Answering honestly will also help you examine your heart to see where you are being shallow or petty about what you look for in a man.
So, if a guy asks you out, 'don't think of yourself more highly than you ought', but give him an honest answer without excuses or condescension.
And I think there's a lot to the idea of giving a guy a chance to show you what's in his heart. You never know, ladies. He may be just what you're looking for when he isn't in the exact situation he was in when he asked you out. But if you snub him, you'll never know.
< Message edited by skreyola -- 10/22/2008 12:25:09 PM >
_____________________________
-- Skreyola, who has left the building.
To learn from your experiences is good, but to learn from the experiences of others is better.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:26:11 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 875
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: 31/M/325[0-9][0-9]
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Prairiehiker
Let me bring back the question to you? Would you give a girl that you don't find attractive a chance? I mean, a real chance. Not one of those "calendar filler" dates.
Hey, a calendar filler is better than nothing. It's time spent together, and no matter how the participants view it, it's an opportunity to make a spark.
_____________________________
-- Skreyola, who has left the building.
To learn from your experiences is good, but to learn from the experiences of others is better.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:29:26 PM
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FunBetty
Posts: 7016
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Land o Cheesecake and Pizza
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quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
Yes, I find that attitude to be quite patronizing and degrading to men.
I agree. It's kind of unfair that we tell men they have to always be the ones who step out and take risks, and women get the luxury of waiting around and either waving away or holding out the scepter to their many potential suitors. I'd go beyond just that women should not consider themselves above dating someone (who isn't obviously defective (e.g., treats her disrespectfully, is obviously married already)) and say that women should sometimes initiate contact and make themselves available to be asked out.
But, I have to remember that men are the ones charged with leadership, and leadership requires risk... but that doesn't make it fair, and it doesn't convey to women this queenly position (You aren't a queen just because you're a princess) that is implied by the idea that women should prejudge men who ask them out without spending any time with them.
I think a woman shouldn't turn down a man for reasons of convenience (busy calendar, can't picture him as her husband without knowing what kind of man he is on the inside, etc.), and if there's a good reason, she should be honest: "I'm in a relationship." "I'm not interested in a relationship with anyone, because I'm going oversees/joining a convent/recently out of a relationship/focusing on school."
Even if the reason is flaky, she shoudl be honest: "I think you're ugly." "I don't like your tattoos." "I don't like your car." "I don't want to go out with you because you don't control your temper."
But definitely not any cop-outs: "God told me you aren't the one." "I think we should just be friends." "I'm washing my hair that night."
Ladies, men take great emotional risk to ask you out at all. You don't have to say yes to every man who asks, but you do owe them your complete honesty. Anything less shows disrespect for the man, for the image of God inside him, and for yourself. A lame excuse cheapens you as a woman and sows in your heart a variance with trust and honesty that will not help you in a real relationship. Answering honestly will also help you examine your heart to see where you are being shallow or petty about what you look for in a man.
So, if a guy asks you out, 'don't think of yourself more highly than you ought', but give him an honest answer without excuses or condescension.
And I think there's a lot to the idea of giving a guy a chance to show you what's in his heart. You never know, ladies. He may be just what you're looking for when he isn't in the exact situation he was in when he asked you out. But if you snub him, you'll never know.
I agree the whole "God told me no" is a copout just as much as "God told me we are to be together" (because if only one person is thinking it, don't you think God would tell both persons?)
But I digress. We are all created so unique and differently that it would be hard to know what is going on in the minds of ladies when they accept or reject an offer for a date. Certainly you are not asking for their hand in marriage when you are asking her out on the date.....but what if she has a different dating style? Perhaps she is like johnno and doesn't want a date that she knows wouldn't go anywhere....or maybe she is like someone else who will date anyone and everyone....or maybe she is a little in between.
I have before accepted a date from a friend to give him a chance. I had never thought about dating him in the course of our friendship so the question threw me off. I didn't have time to analyze the compatibility, and if I had, I would have probably said no. Going out with him confirmed everything that I already knew. He was a nice guy, but he wasn't my nice guy. So that's why I say I have been flattered for the asking. Maybe there is nothing wrong with you, but you just aren't the one that clicks with her. It's okay to feel the hurt from the rejection, but if she doesn't see it, then it's time to move on and be freed to another lady who might see it.
_____________________________
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:34:01 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 875
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From: 31/M/325[0-9][0-9]
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FunBetty
Well let me put another view on this as well.
How well do you know this person you would be asking? I'm going to put myself as an example, so please bear with me. I analyze a lot. I usually know when a guy has an interest in me (guys are usually less subtle than girls in this department), so when I sense that interest, I immediately start analyzing whether we would make a good match. In a sense, I watch him kind of like a hawk. Is he consistent in what he says and does? How do our personalities mesh? Do I find him attractive? Am I interested in getting to know him further in a romantic way?
So all this to say that by the time I get asked out, if I know this person by any means, I would already have a greater idea of whether (in my opinion) we would be compatible. Yes, attraction has something to do with it (because why would you want to date someone you aren't attracted to?), but unless you are a complete stranger then other factors would come in as well.
The good news is this: I am always flattered when a guy shows some interest, even if there is no interest on his behalf. I'm not flattered if he turns out creepy or stalkerish (ie. calling a couple of times a day!). You never know unless you take a chance. And if you're going to take a chance, do it on a great girl!
That's fine, but there's a point to be made, here.
If you've made those observations, why not share them?
Take him aside so you're not making a public spectacle of his rejection, and be honest.
"I'm flattered that you asked me out. I've noticed that you were showing interest, so I've been paying attention to how you behave. From these observations, I think ___________" our personalities don't mesh well/I can't trust you to do what you say you will/I'm not interested.
Faithful words that hurt are better than false words that keep a person in bondage to what they might have changed, were it brought to their attention. I don't know that there really is anything in letting a guy down gently if you're going to say no. It's better to give him some idea of why, so that if it's something he can change, maybe he'll be able to before he asks again (you or someone else).
Speak the truth in love, but speak the truth.
Haven't you ladies noticed how many times guys say on these fora that they are confused by your mixed signals and don't understand why they're being rejected? Let us know what we're doing wrong, and mention what we do right, too.
_____________________________
-- Skreyola, who has left the building.
To learn from your experiences is good, but to learn from the experiences of others is better.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:36:53 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 7982
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
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I guess my thinking is, how do you know if you're compatible if you don't give it a chance? I know that there are men I'm friends with that I think would be worth dating, but they don't feel the same about me. I also have friends who I wouldn't date at all but love and value their friendship.
In general friends don't show EVERY facet of their life during friendships. Sometimes it takes stepping the relationship further to get to know a part of someone that isn't revealed during friendship.
And sometimes it blows up in your face. 
_____________________________
When I've shown you that I just don't care
When I'm throwing punches in the air
When I'm broken down and I can't stand
Will you be strong enough to be my man?
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:38:36 PM
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FunBetty
Posts: 7016
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From: Land o Cheesecake and Pizza
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But how much tact do you use? Should you really tell a guy his teeth are rotted, he wears too much cologne (okay that was was really petty), and he doesn't take care of himself?
Where does the line of honesty draw? And what if those particular qualities are not important to the next one? Case in point-- I rejected a guy with qualities mentioned above, and he married the next girl. Yay for him and her--- so maybe she didn't think that was important enough. Her tastes were obviously different than mine.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:41:46 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 875
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From: 31/M/325[0-9][0-9]
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quote:
ORIGINAL: John_O
I disagree with them. Nothing like dragging our hearts around and stomping on them every once in a while. If there's no chance for the future just shoot us down quick. "Friends" is the kiss of death.
Agreed! "Let's be friends" is worse than "No" because it puts the fruit just out of reach, turning the man into Tantalus.
And it's almost always dishonest. You don't really want to be his friend, do you? If you did, you'd say something like, "I won't go out on a date with you, but I enjoy your company. Let's get together with some other friends and do something fun."
Just shoot us down quickly and quietly so we can get on with mending our hearts and working up the courage to ask the next woman.
_____________________________
-- Skreyola, who has left the building.
To learn from your experiences is good, but to learn from the experiences of others is better.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:45:20 PM
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jesuschick247
Posts: 3473
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quote:
We are all created so unique and differently that it would be hard to know what is going on in the minds of ladies when they accept or reject an offer for a date. Certainly you are not asking for their hand in marriage when you are asking her out on the date.....but what if she has a different dating style? Perhaps she is like johnno and doesn't want a date that she knows wouldn't go anywhere....or maybe she is like someone else who will date anyone and everyone....or maybe she is a little in between.
I have to agree with this, sometimes I don't turn down a date because the guy isn't nice, but simply because I don't want to accept and then turn him down and make him feel bad the next time. I think that it has been easier for me though, the fact that most of the guys who have asked me out I have known for a while, so I know their basic personality and whether we would be a possibility or not. The bottom line for me is I don't casual date, but everyone knows that.
Also, if the girl truly doesn't like you, then she is doing you a favor by saying no, since she will tell you that eventually anyway.
_____________________________
"I know it sounds crazy, 'cause it's been so long. But you're standing here before me and I can't move on without knowing you're surviving and you'll be okay."-Jonny Diaz-
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:46:04 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 875
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From: 31/M/325[0-9][0-9]
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FunBetty
on the date.....but what if she has a different dating style? Perhaps she is like johnno and doesn't want a date that she knows wouldn't go anywhere....or maybe she is like someone else who will date anyone and everyone....or maybe she is a little in between.
Then, she should be honest about her reasons. "I'm looking for a husband rather than a date. I don't see you as a possibility to be my husband, but I see these nice qualities in you:_______ You'll make someone a good husband, but you're not right for me."
Sure, there may be some men who think you're lying, but isn't it better to be open and honest and thought a liar than to withhold information that might, just might, make a guy understand that it really isn't him but you that is the reason for the no?
_____________________________
-- Skreyola, who has left the building.
To learn from your experiences is good, but to learn from the experiences of others is better.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:51:29 PM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 7982
Joined: 1/25/2008
From: NeverNeverLand
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Hmmm...honesty? When women are honest the are called witches with a capital B. We aren't 'honest' for your sake as much as ours. Do you really think we're that worried about hurting you more than we're worried about hurting ourselves or our reputation?
What guy wants to ask out a girl who has told previous suitors, "Sorry...you don't dress neatly enough..." "Sorry...you laugh too loudly..." "Sorry...you don't pray as much as I'd like..." "Sorry...you go to the wrong church..." You know?
I'm one of the few people that stakes my reputation on my blunt honesty so I generally don't care too much to be so. In fact that is one reason Kyoudai and I remained friends as long as we did. When we FIRST became friends I approached him and asked if he wanted to date, or just be friends or what. We discussed it, and after our friendship grew we would talk more about it and realised that we were not compatible AT ALL as anything more than friends. I have since discovered we aren't even that compatible. *sigh*
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When I've shown you that I just don't care
When I'm throwing punches in the air
When I'm broken down and I can't stand
Will you be strong enough to be my man?
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:56:15 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 875
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From: 31/M/325[0-9][0-9]
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quote:
ORIGINAL: FunBetty
But how much tact do you use? Should you really tell a guy his teeth are rotted, he wears too much cologne (okay that was was really petty), and he doesn't take care of himself?
Where does the line of honesty draw? And what if those particular qualities are not important to the next one? Case in point-- I rejected a guy with qualities mentioned above, and he married the next girl. Yay for him and her--- so maybe she didn't think that was important enough. Her tastes were obviously different than mine.
I don't think telling a guy he bathed in too much cologne is a bad thing. Some people are more sensitive to chemicals than others, and he probably doesn't realize it's a turn-off.
Well, that may be. It's not your responsibility what he does with the information about why you rejected him. He doesn't have to change himself if he doesn't want to. And yes, it may hurt, but it may help him see something he didn't notice before.
And tact is not always about biting your tongue. You don't necessarily have to come right out and say things bluntly (though I often do) to get your point across. But I think it's important that the point does get across.
And if you don't want to reveal your reasons, at least limit yourself to "No, I choose not to go out with you." "No, I don't want to discuss why." and swallow your pride that he might think you're stuck up. But relating this to the OP, don't 'let us down easy' and blow smoke up our wazoos about wanting to be friends. If you just don't want to date us, say so.
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-- Skreyola, who has left the building.
To learn from your experiences is good, but to learn from the experiences of others is better.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 12:56:37 PM
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FunBetty
Posts: 7016
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Land o Cheesecake and Pizza
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quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
quote:
ORIGINAL: FunBetty
on the date.....but what if she has a different dating style? Perhaps she is like johnno and doesn't want a date that she knows wouldn't go anywhere....or maybe she is like someone else who will date anyone and everyone....or maybe she is a little in between.
Then, she should be honest about her reasons. "I'm looking for a husband rather than a date. I don't see you as a possibility to be my husband, but I see these nice qualities in you:_______ You'll make someone a good husband, but you're not right for me."
Sure, there may be some men who think you're lying, but isn't it better to be open and honest and thought a liar than to withhold information that might, just might, make a guy understand that it really isn't him but you that is the reason for the no?
Okay, so if a woman is to reject a man, and you want honesty...do you want her to say "hey you're great, because you have this, this, and this going for you, however....you need to improve on this, this, and this?"
Why can't there be a simple no, but thank you? If you do the positive "honest" reply (you have this ____ going for you), he might not take that no as a firm no because he'll see a glimmer of potential if he is persistent enough. And do most guys out there really want an honest list of improvements? (I'm really not being sarcastic here)
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 1:04:20 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 875
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: 31/M/325[0-9][0-9]
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quote:
ORIGINAL: jesuschick247
Also, if the girl truly doesn't like you, then she is doing you a favor by saying no, since she will tell you that eventually anyway.
I think most of us guys have been saying not that a woman should accept a date she knows will be a disaster but that a woman should not say not to a guy for convenience rather than some actual reason (valid or not) for wanting to NOT go out with him.
Say NO: You're looking for a husband, not a date, and he's not for you.
Say NO: His behavior/past/hygiene turns you off.
Say YES: You haven't seen any deal breakers, he's a nice guy, and you're available for dating without a clear path to marriage.
Say YES: He's asked you out when you have other plans. (Get out your day planner and figure out a date you CAN go out with him.
See? Let actual reasons prevent it, but not merely inconvenience or uncertainty. The main thing being, don't consider a man to be a lost puppy unless he's actually acting like one. He's not asking you out, ladies, to annoy you. So, unless he's being disrespectful, there's no excuse for being disrespectful in your answer to him (i.e., let's just be friends).
_____________________________
-- Skreyola, who has left the building.
To learn from your experiences is good, but to learn from the experiences of others is better.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 1:10:55 PM
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skreyola
Posts: 875
Joined: 1/28/2008
From: 31/M/325[0-9][0-9]
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
What guy wants to ask out a girl who has told previous suitors, "Sorry...you don't dress neatly enough..." "Sorry...you laugh too loudly..." "Sorry...you don't pray as much as I'd like..." "Sorry...you go to the wrong church..." You know?
I'm one of the few people that stakes my reputation on my blunt honesty so I generally don't care too much to be so. In fact that is one reason Kyoudai and I remained friends as long as we did. When we FIRST became friends I approached him and asked if he wanted to date, or just be friends or what. We discussed it, and after our friendship grew we would talk more about it and realised that we were not compatible AT ALL as anything more than friends. I have since discovered we aren't even that compatible. *sigh*
You make some good points. When you say it that way, I guess I may be off base. But still, it's a painful day when you realize that no one has cared enough about you to tell you that you've been rejected for something you could easily have fixed.
So, maybe complete disclosure isn't the right tack, but some indication is better than none, or worse, a dishonest answer. So, I'll say: Give as much or as little reason as you like, ladies, but be sure you're telling the truth about your reasons.
And on the subject of things like dress... There's a tertium quod here: "I'd go out with you, if you'd dress up a little more when you ask me out and when we were on the date."
And I think it's great that you discussed that with him. I wish more women would do that. Perhaps instead of "yes" or "no" when asked on a date, have a discussion about your various attributes and whether friendship or dating is more appropriate. That's a great example of openness and honesty leading to a healthy relationship.
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-- Skreyola, who has left the building.
To learn from your experiences is good, but to learn from the experiences of others is better.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 1:12:14 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 3646
Joined: 11/6/2007
From: upstate NY
Status: offline
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i think if someone was on the fence about another person, they'd be willing to accept a date offer. but it seems we are talking about people who know for sure they aren't a good match, i don't think people are going to be brutally honest in their no. it's just too awkward usually.
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RE: Requesting a date: Can I ask an honest question? - 10/22/2008 1:13:13 PM
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FunBetty
Posts: 7016
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Land o Cheesecake and Pizza
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: skreyola
quote:
ORIGINAL: Tinkerbell_
What guy wants to ask out a girl who has told previous suitors, "Sorry...you don't dress neatly enough..." "Sorry...you laugh too loudly..." "Sorry...you don't pray as much as I'd like..." "Sorry...you go to the wrong church..." You know?
I'm one of the few people that stakes my reputation on my blunt honesty so I generally don't care too much to be so. In fact that is one reason Kyoudai and I remained friends as long as we did. When we FIRST became friends I approached him and asked if he wanted to date, or just be friends or what. We discussed it, and after our friendship grew we would talk more about it and realised that we were not compatible AT ALL as anything more than friends. I have since discovered we aren't even that compatible. *sigh*
You make some good points. When you say it that way, I guess I may be off base. But still, it's a painful day when you realize that no one has cared enough about you to tell you that you've been rejected for something you could easily have fixed.
So, maybe complete disclosure isn't the right tack, but some indication is better than none, or worse, a dishonest answer. So, I'll say: Give as much or as little reason as you like, ladies, but be sure you're telling the truth about your reasons.
And on the subject of things like dress... There's a tertium quod here: "I'd go out with you, if you'd dress up a little more when you ask me out and when we were on the date."
Skrey, it is also helpful if you were to turn to your friends (the ones that can be brutally honest with you) and say "is there something wrong? is there something I can fix?". They are not the ones dating with you, but they can give you an unbiased opinion. They can give you insight to some objective things that maybe a lady who you just asked out wouldn't feel comfortable telling you.
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