Is there any biblical command.... (Full Version)

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DaveW -> Is there any biblical command.... (11/6/2008 10:39:33 AM)

for a wife to love her husband? Other than the general command for all believers to love one another.

I am talking about a specific directive at wives re. their own husbands.



dianetavegia -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/6/2008 11:54:36 AM)

What is your definition of love?

Love one another.
Love your enemies.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
Love each other in brotherly love.
Do everything in love.

Love is patient. Love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.

(From scripture)



csl7037 -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/6/2008 12:42:02 PM)

If there was a place that said exactly "wives love your husbands" it would probably be in Ephesians. Where it tells wives to respect their husbands, that's what it's saying; that's how husbands feel love and that's where wives struggle with showing it. It's certainly not like wives are not told to love their husbands or are somehow exempted since it doesn't say "wives love your husbands" in those words the way it does to husbands. With what this verse is also saying and the commands all through the Bible to love one another (in the post above), it would be ridiculous to try to say the Bible doesn't tell wives to love their husbands. That would be like saying the Bible doesn't speak to me because it never says "Chris Smith do this..." That's a very disingenuous argument; if you're facing that argument for some reason, I'd say the person (wife?) doesn't want to have a meaningful conversation and is just hard hearted.

quote:

Ephesians 5 - Wives and Husbands

22.Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.
23.For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.
24.Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25.Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26.to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27.and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
28.In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.
29.After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church--
30.for we are members of his body.
31."For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."
32.This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church.
33.However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.



truthrevealed -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/6/2008 6:29:55 PM)

Not a direct command but the only place in scripture(that I'm familiar) where wives LOVING husbands is mentioned.

That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children. Titus 2:4 KJV



HappilyMarried -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/6/2008 7:12:42 PM)

I believe I remember a pastor that was a guest speaker at our church say something about this. I found it pretty interesting-- he said no where in the bible does it say to woman to love her husband, because love is something that comes naturally to a woman, but it tells her to honor him.



jaimestarcross -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/6/2008 9:08:13 PM)

There's this verse in Titus Chapter 2; verse 4-5 ---
{Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.}



DaveW -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/7/2008 6:44:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HappilyMarried

I believe I remember a pastor that was a guest speaker at our church say something about this. I found it pretty interesting-- he said no where in the bible does it say to woman to love her husband, because love is something that comes naturally to a woman, but it tells her to honor him.
I have heard that too but it is an extra-biblical statement that many try to pass off as scripture. We are not supposed to add to or take away from what is written. That statement does exactly that.



DaveW -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/7/2008 6:53:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jaimestarcross

There's this verse in Titus Chapter 2; verse 4-5 ---
{Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.}
Interesting.

I was aware of this verse, but had not really looked at it that closely. I do remember some pastor years ago talking about this passage and saying it really meant for the older to train the younger women HOW to love their husbands but I do not see that sense in any translation I look at. I have little understanding of Greek (and if memory serves the guy who taught that did) but cannot see it there either. Perhaps some of the more versant in Greek members here can comment.....



csl7037 -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/7/2008 3:51:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: HappilyMarried

I believe I remember a pastor that was a guest speaker at our church say something about this. I found it pretty interesting-- he said no where in the bible does it say to woman to love her husband, because love is something that comes naturally to a woman, but it tells her to honor him.
I have heard that too but it is an extra-biblical statement that many try to pass off as scripture. We are not supposed to add to or take away from what is written. That statement does exactly that.


I don't think it's too outrageous to infer from that scripture that men need respect and women need love and both interpret those as the love/respect that they were created to need in marriage and, to some extent, it is easier for women to love than to respect. It's not adding very much just to explain that scripture in that way. But creating a doctrine or whole theology around that (writing a whole book on it, for example - which has been done) is very much, IMO, adding to scripture, like you said, or at least is really reaching, I agree.



iwillfearnoevil -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/7/2008 4:12:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW
for a wife to love her husband? Other than the general command for all believers to love one another.

I am talking about a specific directive at wives re. their own husbands.


yes - although ephesians 5 specifically commands men to love, the submission (and respect) specifically named is (one of?) the main expressions of love to her husband (and Christ).



karlie -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/7/2008 5:13:59 PM)

I think it depends on how you define love. We are commanded to respect our husbands. In my opinion, the very act of showing respect is a loving act. It's nearly impossible to show true respect to a man you don't love. I'm not talking about pretending respect out of fear or just to avoid trouble, then thinking something very different in your heart. I'm talking about genuine respect. When I show my husband respect, it is a loving behavior that shows how much I care about him as the man in my life. So, when I read the scripture that says respect your husband, I interpret that to mean behave in love towards him.



HappilyMarried -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/8/2008 3:59:34 PM)

quote:

I don't think it's too outrageous to infer from that scripture that men need respect and women need love and both interpret those as the love/respect that they were created to need in marriage and, to some extent, it is easier for women to love than to respect. It's not adding very much just to explain that scripture in that way. But creating a doctrine or whole theology around that (writing a whole book on it, for example - which has been done) is very much, IMO, adding to scripture, like you said, or at least is really reaching, I agree.


Yup. I don't think he was passing it off as scripture. He was merely reading the scripture and then he was going on about what he thought.



donnai -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/9/2008 9:30:07 AM)

This thread spoke to me too. I am having a hard time defining respect in a biblical aspect. My husband and I have had many conversations about this and it seems I have been loving him the way I need to be loved not the way he needs to be. He sees respect as love and although I need respect I see him loving me with his time ,affection and connection. I am now looking at respect in a different light and see that by making decisions outside of his, trying to force my thoughts and views of life on him does not show him respect.
I am praying that I let him be what God wants him to be not what I want him to be. He is under God and I am under my husband. Its a difficult task for an independent woman who sees herself as equal. My heart has been convicted and I am beginning to see marriage from Gods point of view.



DaveW -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/10/2008 7:11:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: karlie

I think it depends on how you define love. We are commanded to respect our husbands. In my opinion, the very act of showing respect is a loving act. It's nearly impossible to show true respect to a man you don't love.
Actually, that is more dependant on your definition of respect.

I have a LOT of respect for some people that I cannot stand. In fact if you are fighting someone, you had better properly respect their strengths and expertise or you will wind up dead. Any soldier understands this. When Bill Clinton was running for President 16 years ago, he had an impromptu jam session with Kenny G, playing a tenor sax. He was GOOD. I have respect for him as a musician. He proved to be a tireless campaigning machine, and got my respect for his fortitude. I do NOT have respect for his political stance or personal morality.

Respect is a honest and realistic evaluation of the strong points of a person. That is very different from loving someone.



csl7037 -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/10/2008 7:30:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

Respect is a honest and realistic evaluation of the strong points of a person. That is very different from loving someone.


But the verse in Ephesians tells wives to respect their husbands, not to evaluate their strong points. And it's not talking about respecting aviv strong abuser because he can knock you out. I think we're talking about something entirely different in that verse - something much closer to love. I think that respect is talking about how wives should be expressing love. Can someone look up the original word that translates from? Maybe I can later - not sure I can on this phone.



iwillfearnoevil -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/10/2008 9:20:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037
Can someone look up the original word that translates from? Maybe I can later - not sure I can on this phone.


okay i can on my phone [:D]
v33 is respect in NIV but reverence in KJV

G5399
φοβέω
phobeō
fob-eh‘-o
From 5401 to frighten, that is, (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy to be in awe of, that is, revere: - be (+ sore) afraid, fear (exceedingly), reverence.



DaveW -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/10/2008 12:26:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

But the verse in Ephesians tells wives to respect their husbands, not to evaluate their strong points. And it's not talking about respecting aviv strong abuser because he can knock you out. I think we're talking about something entirely different in that verse - something much closer to love.
When my wife went to work 2 years ago at the same place I have been working the previous 8, she saw a whole other side of me; and gained new respect for my competence in the cartography world. She also has respect for my engineering skills and musicanship. IMO, That is what the verse is talking about.

ETA: I looked up the use of phobos in Eph 5.33. Most of the newer translations use "respect," but the older either have reverence or fear, which is the primary use of the word. Most places in the NT whre it is used, it means to fear. Fear of God. Fear of man. Fear of circumstances. etc. We get "phobia" from it. Reading thru the verses, I get a sense of it meaning mortal terror.

I do not want my wife to be in mortal terror of me. Or even be a little scared of me. I do, however, want her to understand my strong points and appreciate them.



iwillfearnoevil -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/10/2008 12:31:46 PM)

daveW, it would likely take a whole sermon but if you do some googling, i found several pages within a few minutes including commentaries talking about these verses as submission & respect as an expression of love as multiple people have posted ... there's a lot more to it than just a verse or two here and there ... there are lots of things that need to be accounted for



Aisha -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/10/2008 3:11:23 PM)

Ive been reading these two books by Joel and Kathy Davisson and it gave me a better understanding of what a marriage should look like. There was a chapter on Respect.

This is some of what it said...


"The greek word for respect is phobeo. Phobeo is an intersting word. It means to frighten, to fear, to be alarmed, to be in awe of, revere.

Half of the times that "Phobeo" is used in teh Bible, it is a negative fear: the fear of man or the fear that something bad will happen. The other half of the time "phobeo" refers to a healthy fear of God.


A general understanding of Eph 5:33 is that if a man loves his wife with agape love and as much as he loves himself, she can reverence him to some extent as she reverences God because her husband is God-like. He is operating in agape love. He is reflecting Christ. It is a great idea for a wife to give the gift of respect to her husband when he is laying his ideas down and loving her in the way that she expresses need for.

The word "phobeo" appears three times in one verse. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. 1 John 4:18

John says that perfect love casts out "phobeo" and that there is no "phobeo" in love!

If a man agape loves his wife then he will not be concerned about whether she is offering him "phobeo." He wont give second thought to whether she is giving him "phobeo" because there is no "phobeo" in perfect love!

Jesus said, "No Phobeo!"

But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. Matthew 14:27

Jesus said that he did not want his disciples to experience "phobeo."

This is love.

Every husband reading this should say this to his wife:

"I do not want you to be in "phobeo" toward me. Like Jesus, I am saying to you, Do not "phobeo". Do not be afraid. Do not worry about respecting me. Let me work on agape loving you and meeting your needs. You can relax. If you respect me someday in a natural response to my agape love, that will be great. Please dont manufacture anything."

Men are supposed to be like Jesus. Why would Paul tell wives to be in "phobeo" when Jesus clearly instructed them not to be in "phobeo."

Most people do not understand the difference between healthy and unhealthy "phobeo". Throwing the word into a marriage relationship often causes either the husband or wife to go "tilit". A wife might start submitting to her husband more than he submits to her or a husband might start demanding that she offer him respect, regardless of how he treats her."



csl7037 -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/10/2008 3:23:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW
I do not want my wife to be in mortal terror of me. Or even be a little scared of me. I do, however, want her to understand my strong points and appreciate them.


Every wife should do this. But, even if a husband has no strengths or good points, it's still sin and rebellion (against God and the dh) to not respect and revere him. This verse is just telling wives to do it - to choose to do it. If the dh doesn't have any respectable qualities, that's between her and God and the wife is still to be graciuos and respectful/loving. It's not optional.



doinkdom -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (11/12/2008 4:52:25 PM)

IMO and without knowing the context from where the question comes from:

usually when someone wants a definitive verse in addition to or instead of biblical principles, there's some other issue behind the request.

In counseling women, many of them have said they respect and honor their husbands, but that doesn't mean they love them b/c the bible doesn't say so - they are basing their idea of love on some immature emotional high rather than the choice and action behind the words. They have gritted their teeth and just struggle through without the real joy of deep-seeded love.

You will not find a definitive thou shalt verse stating women love your husbands. However, you do find all that has already been posted whih does more than simply imply loving your husband imo.



freelowd -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (12/18/2008 1:32:31 AM)

I don't konw if anyone has cited the verse that instucts "the older women to teach the younger how to love their husbands." That would indicate some of what the issue is about, I think.



DaveW -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (12/18/2008 11:05:03 AM)

That verse was mentioned in post 6. I thought about it but did not cite it in the OP.

Doinkdom, there is a big difference between respecting, honoring and loving. They are 3 very different things. Husbands are SPECIFICALLY commanded to love their wives. It is entirely possible to respect someone and dislike them intensly.



doinkdom -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (12/18/2008 2:54:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW
Doinkdom, there is a big difference between respecting, honoring and loving. They are 3 very different things. Husbands are SPECIFICALLY commanded to love their wives. It is entirely possible to respect someone and dislike them intensly.


I understand. I was pointing out that women already in a marriage tend to complain that they don't "feel" love for their husbands and then state that it doesn't really matter b/c they only have to respect him...not love him. As though by fulfilling the "thou shalt" they have fulfilled their job as a wife...which is definitely not the case.



rawr.ben -> RE: Is there any biblical command.... (12/18/2008 8:20:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaveW

quote:

ORIGINAL: HappilyMarried

I believe I remember a pastor that was a guest speaker at our church say something about this. I found it pretty interesting-- he said no where in the bible does it say to woman to love her husband, because love is something that comes naturally to a woman, but it tells her to honor him.
I have heard that too but it is an extra-biblical statement that many try to pass off as scripture. We are not supposed to add to or take away from what is written. That statement does exactly that.



It's not necessarily extra-biblical. It is merely an attempt at trying to understand the author's intent.



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