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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 1:18:35 PM
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WesP
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
So are you guys saying that it is not the intended focus of the progressive secular movement to work towards a One World Government based on socialism? That all the political statements are meanness? That the OWG concept is just some mindless fundamental pipe dream?
Bob
Bob,
I believe that there are a certain group of people who are making the attempt; however, I do not believe that the end result will be exactly what they want. I have no doubt that a group of nations will dominate, but I think that elsewhere there will be other political distresses and wars. I am not sure to what extent things will play out, but I do not think that one government will run the world.
ETA: Please, keep in mind that eschatology is not the focus of most of my study, so I still claim a lot of ignorance with respect to much of it.
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Peace,
Wes
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 2:31:12 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3743
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
So are you guys saying that it is not the intended focus of the progressive secular movement to work towards a One World Government based on socialism? That all the political statements are meanness? That the OWG concept is just some mindless fundamental pipe dream?
Bob
Yep. "Mindless" might be a bit overstated but "pipedream" is dead on.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 2:43:28 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6345
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
That the OWG concept is just some mindless fundamental pipe dream?
That and other conspiracy theories have been around since I was a kid and the evidence to support them are just as flimsy as when I believed them.
And, FWIW, I have always considered myself theologically conservative and fundamental. I just no longer jump onboard every hand-car that someone pumps along nearby tracks.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 2:47:34 PM
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bob97
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You know cow, I must say I agree with lhtytlp…in all your post, I think I can count on one hand (that I’ve read anyway) those that are positive. For the most part your posting is negative and mocking to the issue being addressed…why is that?
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 2:50:40 PM
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bob97
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quote:
And, FWIW, I have always considered myself theologically conservative and fundamental. I just no longer jump onboard every hand-car that someone pumps along nearby tracks.
I am well aware of your mindset Eutychus...you make it very clear in almost every post in this section. While I find myself agreeing with most of your posting in other areas, in this one we don't see things quite so eye to eye. 
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 3:03:24 PM
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Eutychus
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Which amazes me.
I keep wondering how many times and for how long will these... end times... teachers/prognosticators get it wrong, repeatedly and outrageously, before people back up and ask themselves what's wrong with this picture.
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Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 3:18:54 PM
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bob97
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quote:
I keep wondering how many times and for how long will these... end times... teachers/prognosticators get it wrong
What you don't seem to understand...I follow no so called end time teacher or prognosticator but I do follow Gods word. I personally could care less about the world thinks, it's my own personal understanding that leads me.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 3:26:06 PM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6345
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
I keep wondering how many times and for how long will these... end times... teachers/prognosticators get it wrong
What you don't seem to understand...I follow no so called end time teacher or prognosticator but I do follow Gods word. I personally could care less about the world thinks, it's my own personal understanding that leads me.
Bob
You don't follow the revelations of Lindsey and the likes of the websites linked in this thread?
And you came up with that list on the previous page all by yourself?
quote:
Illuminati
Freemasonry
Protocols of the Elders of Zion
Round Table
Open Conspiracy
Fourth Reich
Alien Invasion
Gradualism
Coup d”etat and martial law
Surveillance industrial complex
Occultism
If so, I'm impressed that independently you came up with essentially the same list my FIL got from reading numerous conspiracy teachers over his lifetime.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 4:12:37 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3743
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
You know cow, I must say I agree with lhtytlp…in all your post, I think I can count on one hand (that I’ve read anyway) those that are positive. For the most part your posting is negative and mocking to the issue being addressed…why is that?
Bob
I'm a recovering dispensationalist.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 6:15:06 PM
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lhtytlp
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
I keep wondering how many times and for how long will these... end times... teachers/prognosticators get it wrong
What you don't seem to understand...I follow no so called end time teacher or prognosticator but I do follow Gods word. I personally could care less about the world thinks, it's my own personal understanding that leads me.
Bob
I think that the mystery between we human beings and God! Even though we live in this world, human beings always have desire to know the other side, which is the spiritual side, whether it's yesterday, today, and tomorrow!
If we go back to the history of King Solomon, I'm sure he had great desire of getting knowledge, apart from the widsom God granted him; however, thorughout his life, he had encountered different spirits with different women with different nationalities < again, like I said at the other thread, when your blood is contimated by the unclean, automatically your spiritual life could be affected as well...>
I'm sure he has regretted for what he had done when he reach his old age. Ecclesiastes 1: 12-18 say, I the Preacher was king over Israel in Jerusalem. And I gave my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all things that are done under heaven: this sore travail hath God given to the sons of man to be exercised therewith. I have seen all the works that are done under the sun; and, behold, all is vanity and vexation of spirit. That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered. I communed with mine own heart, saying, Lo, I am come to great estate, and have gotten more wisdom than all they that have been before me in Jerusalem: yea, my heart had great experience of wisdom and knowledge. And I gave my heart to know wisdom, and to know madness and folly: I perceived that this also is vexation of spirit. For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow." 
Most of these elites are 'religious' incline, however, they are not 'spiritual' incline, and they applied the Words of God in the wrong place. What-so-ever they are doing shouldn't affect our relationship with God or our desire for pursuing the worldly knowledge! Again, as Christians, we all need to be informed adequently, that'll really allow us to fit in this world we live in and bring the lost back to God's track! 
Hope this will create some profound understanding in the area of this spicific post! Emmanuel!
_____________________________
The Lord is my strength and song ....... I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD.
Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 6:44:31 PM
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bob97
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quote:
You don't follow the revelations of Lindsey and the likes of the websites linked in this thread?
And you came up with that list on the previous page all by yourself?
Actually the only time I have listened to Lindsey was when I was prompted because of discussion on this site.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/13/2009 7:37:33 PM
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tsnody2001
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quote:
I'm responding to posts. This discussion about races is somewhat far-fetched in terms of prophecy, but then much of these discussions are far-fetched. It would seem to make more sense that race-dilution through intermarriage/interbreeding would be more a sign of an eventual OWO since, thoeretically, there would be fewer racial/ethnic divisions with less variation in skin color.
There seems to be some logic in that argument. LOL But I want to make clear that I was not meaning that God deal with people because of their race, but because of their name/family line.
quote:
But the notion of OWO is not supported Biblically, anyway.
I do not agree with this, though. Have you read the Book of Revelation? Especially the part where the second beast makes people to worship the first beast, and forces small, big, slave, free, and everyone else to take a mark that they not be ble to buy or sell without? That sounds like a world government...
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/14/2009 8:46:37 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6345
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
You don't follow the revelations of Lindsey and the likes of the websites linked in this thread?
And you came up with that list on the previous page all by yourself?
Actually the only time I have listened to Lindsey was when I was prompted because of discussion on this site.
Bob
That's good to know. I and a couple of others have been chewed up for daring to point out the numerous times Lindsey has declared a thing in the news to be a certain fulfillment of scripture only to have been proven wrong. He has made a living off 2 or 3 gullible generations and is still revered as a wise and insightful man.
I guess I got my fill of interpreting current events with scripture about 10 years ago in the, seldom mentioned today, great Y2K scare. I was in the IT field at that time so I became more and more agitated as I heard ignorant preachers, teachers, and Christian TV celebs declare the coming doom of life on the planet and invented conspiracy theories out of whole cloth to prove beyond doubt that the ultimate calamity to usher in the Beast was about to strike - that the whole tribulation would be over and final judgment before 2008.
I KNEW that all that was unfounded craziness. Yet, people chose to ignore us while making plans to run to the hills with their hoarded food and survival gear.
Few people seem to have learned from Y2K and use it to filter the latest theories.
And much of what I'm seeing in these threads sounds eerily similar and just as silly.
To this day, I haven't heard a single one of those people admit to their unfounded hysteria. And in another 10 years, when the latest headlines are proving to those hungry to hear imminent doom, I don't expect many here to say they were wrong in 2009.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/14/2009 8:58:39 AM
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Strider33
Posts: 362
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
quote:
I'm responding to posts. This discussion about races is somewhat far-fetched in terms of prophecy, but then much of these discussions are far-fetched. It would seem to make more sense that race-dilution through intermarriage/interbreeding would be more a sign of an eventual OWO since, thoeretically, there would be fewer racial/ethnic divisions with less variation in skin color.
There seems to be some logic in that argument. LOL But I want to make clear that I was not meaning that God deal with people because of their race, but because of their name/family line.
quote:
But the notion of OWO is not supported Biblically, anyway.
I do not agree with this, though. Have you read the Book of Revelation? Especially the part where the second beast makes people to worship the first beast, and forces small, big, slave, free, and everyone else to take a mark that they not be ble to buy or sell without? That sounds like a world government...
Would that have sounded like a world government to a second century reader? I suppose that such a person would have seen the Roman empire essentially the way you see a one world government, even though the pax Romana covered a small fraction of earth's land area.
Would it have sounded like a world government to an eighth century reader? Would Charlemagne have been seen as forming a one world government?
Is it going to sound like one world government to a twenty fifth century reader? Assuming the Lord tarries, of course.
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/14/2009 10:44:41 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3743
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tsnody2001
quote:
I'm responding to posts. This discussion about races is somewhat far-fetched in terms of prophecy, but then much of these discussions are far-fetched. It would seem to make more sense that race-dilution through intermarriage/interbreeding would be more a sign of an eventual OWO since, thoeretically, there would be fewer racial/ethnic divisions with less variation in skin color.
There seems to be some logic in that argument. LOL But I want to make clear that I was not meaning that God deal with people because of their race, but because of their name/family line.
quote:
But the notion of OWO is not supported Biblically, anyway.
I do not agree with this, though. Have you read the Book of Revelation? Especially the part where the second beast makes people to worship the first beast, and forces small, big, slave, free, and everyone else to take a mark that they not be ble to buy or sell without? That sounds like a world government...
Again, interpretation. Certainly Rev 13 speaks of power over all nations. But context and the cryptic nature of Revelation makes that of some question. The Roman Empire would fit, as Rome ruled the world that existed for John, or a modern-day version. Matching current events with Rev. 13 seems quite a stretch.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/14/2009 7:52:28 PM
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tsnody2001
Posts: 324
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From: Terre Haute, IN
Status: offline
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Strider33 and cow451,
I understand both of your arguments, and I almost want to agree with both of you but I can't. The reason being is because John's revelation was not limited (I hope I choose the right word) to him, but came from the Holy Spirit Who sees all and knows all. Yes, there have been forms of government in the past that had a form of control over a large portion of the known world. But today, with the technology we have in place, it is entirely possible for a very small group of people to govern or rule over every man woman and child on the entire face of the planet, not just in certain "known" parts.
One thing I do agree with you on is that the Lord may tarry. It could possibly be a hundred or two hundred years (maybe longer) before He returns, but that doesn't take away the fact that we are living in times of REAL world government and not partial world government. The world is taking steps to get there, at a frighteningly quick rate, and is entirely possible that it will be completed in our lifetimes.
_____________________________
Until He Returns (Rev. 2:17),
Travis
During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act. ~George Orwell
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/14/2009 8:25:21 PM
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bob97
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The bible is full of foreshadowing events...this is why man is so confused. The fall of Jerusalem in 70AD for example has a lot of people confused regarding end time events.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/15/2009 5:01:08 AM
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lhtytlp
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Again, interpretation. Certainly Rev 13 speaks of power over all nations. But context and the cryptic nature of Revelation makes that of some question. The Roman Empire would fit, as Rome ruled the world that existed for John, or a modern-day version. Matching current events with Rev. 13 seems quite a stretch.
Cow451, like I shared at the other thread, the end time revelation was revealled to John alone, and we have to go back to the beginning of the Book. I can just repeat here a little bit!
Revelation 1: 1-2, "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ."
Revelation 1: 10-11, "On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."
Revelation 1: 17-19, "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. "Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later."
God told John what-so-ever he saw will soon take place, which means anytime from that moment until His Second Return! The Word 'soon' in God's eye is different from our standard! The kind of watch we wear is different from the one HE wears!
In conclusion, the kind of OWO is a gradual process, not one day or one year formation, and it definitely matchs what it is said in the Scriptures! This is just my personal view!
_____________________________
The Lord is my strength and song ....... I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD.
Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/16/2009 9:25:43 PM
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dimitrius
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Here is a very interesting article, basically saying that the antichrist could be the messianic Mahdi, which the muslim world is waiting for. Another theory is that this person would be the false prophet. I believe that this is quite more plausable than most theories. When you look at the influence that Islam is having on Europe, you'll understand that the possibility of this is very high. I now believe more so than any freemason conspiracy of a one world order. The war between God and Satan has always manifested itself between God's chosen people and their enemies in the physical world. There is no greater physical enemy of the Jewish nation than the Islamic nation. If we get back to basics, it makes sense. Perhaps all other conspiracy theories were designed by the devil to take our focus off the power that the muslim world has been gaining.
Here is the article.
http://watchmannewsletter.typepad.com/news/2009/08/iran-leaders-pave-way-for-messianic-mahdi.html
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/18/2009 12:39:32 PM
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cow451
Posts: 3743
Joined: 5/6/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lhtytlp
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
Again, interpretation. Certainly Rev 13 speaks of power over all nations. But context and the cryptic nature of Revelation makes that of some question. The Roman Empire would fit, as Rome ruled the world that existed for John, or a modern-day version. Matching current events with Rev. 13 seems quite a stretch.
Cow451, like I shared at the other thread, the end time revelation was revealled to John alone, and we have to go back to the beginning of the Book. I can just repeat here a little bit!
Revelation 1: 1-2, "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ."
Revelation 1: 10-11, "On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea."
Revelation 1: 17-19, "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. "Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later."
God told John what-so-ever he saw will soon take place, which means anytime from that moment until His Second Return! The Word 'soon' in God's eye is different from our standard! The kind of watch we wear is different from the one HE wears!
must shortly come to pass doesn't allow any other meaning but that it will happen soon. Scripture does not indicate any of this being in the far distant future. To say otherwise adds meaning that is not in the text. Nobody in the first century would say that "soon" might mean 2000+ years.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/18/2009 6:38:13 PM
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lhtytlp
Posts: 413
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
must shortly come to pass doesn't allow any other meaning but that it will happen soon. Scripture does not indicate any of this being in the far distant future. To say otherwise adds meaning that is not in the text. Nobody in the first century would say that "soon" might mean 2000+ years.
Again, personal view!
It's said in Isaiah 55:8-9, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neigher are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
This makes Him a Supreme God, the kind of watch we wear is not the one He wears, His time frame is different from us!
In addition, Revelation 6: 17, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
Emmanuel!!!
_____________________________
The Lord is my strength and song ....... I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD.
Talk no more so exceeding proudly; let not arrogancy come out of your mouth: for the LORD is a God of knowledge, and by him actions are weighed.
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/18/2009 11:58:12 PM
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Strider33
Posts: 362
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
must shortly come to pass doesn't allow any other meaning but that it will happen soon. Scripture does not indicate any of this being in the far distant future. To say otherwise adds meaning that is not in the text. Nobody in the first century would say that "soon" might mean 2000+ years.
Except perhaps for Peter. (See 2 Pet 3:7-9)
_____________________________
Not all those who wander are lost.
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/19/2009 9:55:17 AM
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Eutychus
Posts: 6345
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Strider33
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
must shortly come to pass doesn't allow any other meaning but that it will happen soon. Scripture does not indicate any of this being in the far distant future. To say otherwise adds meaning that is not in the text. Nobody in the first century would say that "soon" might mean 2000+ years.
Except perhaps for Peter. (See 2 Pet 3:7-9)
That's not Peter, that's God who sees 1,000 years as a day. To Peter, 60 or so years was a whole lifetime.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Evidence For The 'ONE WORLD ORDER - 8/19/2009 9:57:36 AM
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cow451
Posts: 3743
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lhtytlp
quote:
ORIGINAL: cow451
must shortly come to pass doesn't allow any other meaning but that it will happen soon. Scripture does not indicate any of this being in the far distant future. To say otherwise adds meaning that is not in the text. Nobody in the first century would say that "soon" might mean 2000+ years.
Again, personal view!
It's said in Isaiah 55:8-9, "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neigher are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."
This makes Him a Supreme God, the kind of watch we wear is not the one He wears, His time frame is different from us!
In addition, Revelation 6: 17, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"
Emmanuel!!!
That old bugaboo about context and interpretation. It would seem a bit deceptive for God to imply events happening in the near future when they are thousands of years in the future.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
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