|
|
|
|
|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
|
[Poll]
|
Did She ASK for It?
|
| Yes, but the assailant is entirely responsible for his actions. |
|
| Yes, she should know better & the case should be dropped. |
|
| No, a woman should be able to dress as she pleases, regardless! |
|
| No, but she should know that her behavior is irresponsible |
|
Total Votes : 21
|
(last vote on : 11/21/2008 1:33:55 PM)
(Poll ended: 11/21/2008 2:00:00 AM)
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 12:12:31 PM
|
|
|
hnt
Posts: 660
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
Think about what you just said here. The person brings with them 'date rape drugs', and you don't think that shows wanting to 'victimize'? The fact they are even in poscession of them show intent! Does poscession of this drug not show intent to you? Just curious!
I never said that a rapist didn't intend to commit a crime. The question is whether dressing provocatively increases the likelihood of a particular woman becoming the victim.
quote:
The only problem I have with the dress being this huge issue is when I ready about different countries. In the middle east we have all read how women are covered from head to toe. They feel if they see an ankle that 'asking for it'. Are we saying they have different types of rapist's there?
No, I don't believe this represents a "different type" of rapist. However, too often I see this example used to demonstrate why no standard of modesty should ever be upheld. The idea that is often presented is that if an exposed ankle can be construed as immodest then no standard of modesty should ever be advocated for society. The problem is that the bible clearly teaches that modesty is standard to which we must hold ourselves, and so we cannot simply use arguments like this to dismiss the idea that modesty is something that is attainable.
benelchi - you are reaching here!
If a man has in his pocession date rape drugs he intends to do the act. He is going to be looking for the opportunity to pass this in a drink - or whatever - so his victim can't fight back. He already has in his head he going to rape. It really doesn't matter how she is dressed. Someone is going to get it. The fact he is looking for a victim shows the issue is with him. The dress isn't always going to be a factor. If he wants to get it he will be looking for opportunity. If he can't get the opporunity with the girl that is dressed to the nines, but the completely covered one is handy....he is going to go for it. Someone's dress may at times be a extra turn on, but in the end he is looking for personal safisfaction in the end.
I'm not saying women wouldn't dress in a modest fashion, and I'm not saying they should go into settings that could place them at risk.
There are neighborhoods across this country that women and girls have no choice in the matter - bad neighborhoods. I would guess that most of the time they don't go out after dark unless they have to. It those cases I'm sure they carry something with them to protect themselves. They don't have to be dressed in any certain way for men NOT to approach them! They know that - that's the reason for the weopon they have on them. If men in the neighborhood know more than likely she is packing, and they are after something - they are going to pick someone more vulerable.
Since you seem to think the example I gave was sort of excuse - can you visualize that one? Pretty much the same thing. I guess we could give the excuse that she shouldn't be out after dark. What if she had to for whatever reason? In those neighborhoods alot of times it would happen in daylight as well. You could be walking down the sidewalk with your waitress uniform on. Nursing uniform. Construction gear or sweatpants and huge shirt!
Rapists look for opportunity, and it has nothing to do with modesty. It has to do with the sick mind that needs this for whatever reason. There are women that rape as well. Why do they do it? Its not because someone didn't hold up the biblical standard of modesty!
People that rape do it because of a major character flaw ( to place it nicely), and they are going to do it if everyone around them are dressed in flour sacks.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 12:18:58 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
I think it is used as an example because it seems Christian men like to throw around women dressing immodestly as the reason for their stumbling and failure without taking responsibility for themselves. The truth is, modesty in dress is a heart issue between a woman and God; likewise, a man's inability to control his thought life is between him and God.
This is one of the most pernicious lies of our culture today. Yes, men should always submit their thought life to God no matter how the women around them choose to dress, BUT how a woman chooses to dress makes it either easier are more difficult for a man to submit his thoughts to God.
But that's what I'm saying...for some men, it is never enough. A burka wouldn't be enough, anything less is "sexually suggestive." Christian women, if we were to take the comments I've read on this board over the years at face value, will never be able to win. We will always bear much of the fault for our brothers "stumbling," no matter what we were wearing in the first place.
How a woman chooses to dress should not be about woman winning or loosing, it should be about women choosing to dress in a way that honors God, honors those who are around her, and ultimately honers herself.
Why is it that in church, the average woman's neckline is far lower than the average man's?
Why is it that in church, the average woman's skirt is considerable higher than the average man's shorts?
Men don't where burkas either, but they do, in general, dress more modestly than women, and yet it is to woman in which the bible most strongly addresses the issue of modesty.
quote:
And that's why I believe we see threads like this, where there is any suggestion that a woman who was raped somehow had it coming and was at fault.
This was never suggested or even hinted at by me. I have clearly stated quite the opposite numerous times.
quote:
quote:
Woman/men can and do use their sexuality to tempt men/women into sin, and they do bare some responsibility for their sinful actions. This does not diminish the responsibility of the man/woman for his/her own failings, but it is a lie to say that the woman/man who sinned had no part in it!
Goes both ways.
Agreed
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 12:20:27 PM
|
|
|
hnt
Posts: 660
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
That also doesn't make sense to me.
Just because people choose their victims - relatives or dates - doesn't mean they don't see them as more vulnerable.
If you are going to rape - not matter WHAT the circumstance...you aren't right in your head! They aren't going to take on someone that might be more of a challege than they can handle. I'm sure there are some sicko's that love the fight as well, but I can't see the majority of people wanting to take on relatives or dates that they feel won't keep their secret afterwards. If they can do the deed and intimidate them into silence - so much the better.
I mean if you are a rapist are you going to take on a strong women that you know will blast you afterwards, or take on that other one that is going to be easier to manipulate and scare half to death?
The fastest growing rape group in America is those who have been raped using date rape drugs. The victims are seldom chosen because they are more vulnerable, but rather because of how they look. Their appearance is the number one factor in these kinds of rapes.
Perhaps those "provocatively dressed" women already told the loser no so he has to stoop to drugging her in order to have sex. 
This very well could be true; how would that change the fact that being provocatively dressed was a factor?
how can you say they were not looking for someone to rape? Can you say he wouldn't do it if all were dressed properly?
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 12:24:40 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: BugLady
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
It simply shows that he need to have someway to control her in order to have sex; it doesn't show that it was more about control that it was about sex.
I disagree. The victim can't participate. Someone who plans to force themselves upon their victim through the use of stupifying drugs is seeking to control.
And they are seeking to have sex! You have no way to deduce from this that control or sex was the biggest motivator.
quote:
quote:
How big is your sample size?
Couldn't tell you. I didn't interview rape victims to as a study. I did it in my work. The victims I dealt with weren't samples. They were victims.
All of the samples in a statistical evacuation of rape are victims; however, the number of victims to which you speak is critically important if you are trying to establish a trend. It matter.
quote:
quote:
What do you consider provocative?
Let's just say, I don't consider jeans and a blouse to be particularly provocative.
Let's just say that really doesn't answer anything at all.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 12:31:22 PM
|
|
|
StephK
Posts: 2766
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
Status: offline
|
quote:
And they are seeking to have sex! You have no way to deduce from this that control or sex was the biggest motivator.
The rapist is still a predator in this particular situation. The rapist can't obtain what he wants through consent so he plans on how to obtain what he wants through coercion.
_____________________________
Stephanie
Envy is always referred to by its political alias, "social justice."
~ Thomas Sowell
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 12:40:34 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
people that rape do it because of a major character flaw ( to place it nicely), and they are going to do it if everyone around them are dressed in flour sacks.
This is true for some rapist, but not for others.
Some have such major character flaws that are so severe that no social pressure of any kind is going to prevent their deviant behavior, but others are constrained by social boundaries and when they perceive that deviant behavior is accepted by their peers, they are far more likely to engage in it. All rapists are not the same and all circumstances of rape are not the same.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 12:44:03 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
quote:
And they are seeking to have sex! You have no way to deduce from this that control or sex was the biggest motivator.
The rapist is still a predator in this particular situation. The rapist can't obtain what he wants through consent so he plans on how to obtain what he wants through coercion.
No argument, but this still doesn't change the fact that provocative dress can be a factor in some rape cases, and it doesn't change the fact that some rape cases control is used to get sex rather than sex being used to get control. Both situations do occur.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 12:52:22 PM
|
|
|
hnt
Posts: 660
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: BugLady
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
It simply shows that he need to have someway to control her in order to have sex; it doesn't show that it was more about control that it was about sex.
I disagree. The victim can't participate. Someone who plans to force themselves upon their victim through the use of stupifying drugs is seeking to control.
And they are seeking to have sex! You have no way to deduce from this that control or sex was the biggest motivator.
lol I'm sorry but I giggling now. Are you serious? He uses the drug to control her so he can have sex, but that doesn't mean he needs to control her. That's a counterdiction.
quote:
quote:
How big is your sample size?
Couldn't tell you. I didn't interview rape victims to as a study. I did it in my work. The victims I dealt with weren't samples. They were victims.
All of the samples in a statistical evacuation of rape are victims; however, the number of victims to which you speak is critically important if you are trying to establish a trend. It matter.
Where is the statistical evacuation of rapists showing they use drugs to control the outcome, but are not using it as a TOOl to control the victim?
quote:
quote:
What do you consider provocative?
Let's just say, I don't consider jeans and a blouse to be particularly provocative.
Let's just say that really doesn't answer anything at all.
Why doesn't it answer it? Would it be a better answer if she said tight red dress?
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 12:58:40 PM
|
|
|
edgibson
Posts: 12
Joined: 10/3/2005
From: Then: upper NY, Now: NC
Status: offline
|
Perhaps, a different angle might be helpful.
I am going deer hunting. The deer did not ask me to hunt them. If deer had laws, hunting them would be illegal.
Regardless, I hunt.
Is what I am doing against the (hypothetical deer) law? Yes.
Does the deer want me to hunt them in any way shape or form? No
Given a choice amongst several deer, which one will I choose? The one with the biggest antlers, that also provides me a clean shot.
So, did the deer's appearance play a part in my choice of victim? Yes.
Does it make what I did any less illegal (to the deer)? No.
Is it the deers "fault". Not really, but (assuming they could choose antler size) their choice did effect mine.
That is the point I was getting at. It is never right to rape. But, all things being equal, appearance can affect the victim selection. Is it the victim's fault. NOOOOO. But it is something to consider.
_____________________________
Where are we going?
And why are we in this handbasket?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 1:00:32 PM
|
|
|
hnt
Posts: 660
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
people that rape do it because of a major character flaw ( to place it nicely), and they are going to do it if everyone around them are dressed in flour sacks.
This is true for some rapist, but not for others.
Some have such major character flaws that are so severe that no social pressure of any kind is going to prevent their deviant behavior, but others are constrained by social boundaries and when they perceive that deviant behavior is accepted by their peers, they are far more likely to engage in it. All rapists are not the same and all circumstances of rape are not the same.
benelchi: Its not SOME that have major character flaws. ALL of them do! Having a perceived notion that its acceptable by their peers doesn't show they don't have the flaw.
I don't care what the circumtances are. Rape is illegal, immoral, sinful, etc under any circumstance. They are kidding themselves if they think its more or less acceptable because of the circumstance they were placed with.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 1:02:45 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
quote:
quote:
quote:
What do you consider provocative?
Let's just say, I don't consider jeans and a blouse to be particularly provocative.
Let's just say that really doesn't answer anything at all.
Why doesn't it answer it? Would it be a better answer if she said tight red dress?
Well, lets just start with the blouse.
Was it low cut?
Was it see through?
Were there lots of buttons left undone?
Was she waring anything underneath?
The reality is that a blouse can be very modest, or it can be very provocative depending on the blouse and how it is worn.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 1:12:10 PM
|
|
|
benelchi
Posts: 4566
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
|
quote:
benelchi: Its not SOME that have major character flaws. ALL of them do! Having a perceived notion that its acceptable by their peers doesn't show they don't have the flaw.
To a point I agree with you; however, many people who are today are accepted into our society as normal have committed horrible atrocities when social pressure permitted or encouraged it. A drastic example would be the many who were caught up in the Nazi party during WWII and often engaged in rape.And then there are those like Jeffrey Dahmer who have such clear and major character flaws and demonstrate anti social behavior that it is clear that social pressure is not going to influence their behavior.
quote:
I don't care what the circumstances are. Rape is illegal, immoral, sinful, etc under any circumstance. They are kidding themselves if they think its more or less acceptable because of the circumstance they were placed with.
Agreed! it is always wrong no matter what peers or society says. That really is my point! In the same way immodest dress for women is always wrong no matter what peers or society says. Our standard comes from God's word and not from peers or society.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 2:48:59 PM
|
|
|
cow451
Posts: 3747
Joined: 5/6/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: leonfigg3
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
I think it is a little inconsistant for anyone male or female to expect society to protect them, if they will take reasonable precautions. According to current law, it is illegal to leave one's keys in one's car, because this encourages theft. I believe that women should be provided with body guards, but I'm just one of those sexist, racist, homophobes who thinks men should have certain special things also.
Just what "certain special things" are you talking about?
In answer to the thread, Of course not.
I can stay on topic. I think fathers and husbands should have the right to have some control over where the women they are responsible for can go.
Following this logic, The husbands and fathers should be punished if their daughters or wives are assaulted.
_____________________________
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border." Sarah Palin
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 3:13:35 PM
|
|
|
phosadaud
Posts: 10572
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
|
I think the problem with discussions like this is that rape is such a horrid, ugly, destructive and devastating thing, that we really need to step back and have a little grace and understanding when it comes to where folks are coming from. I hear what you are saying benelchi and while I agree with some of it, I disagree with some, but here is what I hope you hear:
As a woman, my view of things is going to be different than yours because from the time I was a little girl, my life has revolved around avoiding being a victim. Everything I do - from where I park, to the types of jobs I take, to how I dress, to where I live - centers around how to avoid being the latest victim. Everything. And yet, it will never be enough. The fact is, when we hear a woman has been raped, the first thing folks do is start asking "what was she wearing?", "was she drunk?", "was she alone at night?", "how well did she know the guy?", etc. No other crime is this argued so vehemently. Some very dear family friends were murdered in their home a few years back. There was no question regarding did they "open the door when they "shouldn't have". There was no question regarding did they "taunt the murderer". No. They were victims, the crime was done and now the perpetrator needed to pay. So, why is rape different?
Are there things that we as women can do to help decrease our risk of being assaulted? Absolutely! To me that is an entirely separate issue and I will not even HINT that someone even remotely played a part in them being victimized in this way because it serves no purpose. What's done is done. And to be honest, it seems downright bizarre to me that society wants to talk more about how the woman could have prevented it than it wants to talk about what reprobate mind could destroy another life in such an evil way.
I have never been raped, but I have been touched in ways that would make your skin crawl. I am a very modest woman - and was very modest even as a teenager. I have never been drunk in my life. I am always very alert and aware - and keep my doors locked. And yet, I can still give examples of random guys running their hands up my legs for no other reason than I was a girl and they were passing me on a stairwell or grabbing my rear because I was standing in front of them in line. I know what it is to be cornered in a room while simply trying to do my job in a nursing home - and I was wearing identical scrubs as the men. I know what it is to be grabbed and had a male patient try to pull me into bed with him simply because I was a woman and I was within reach.
And yet, if I get raped tomorrow, the first thing that folks will start asking is "what was I wearing", "how can I live alone or run alone", "I was wearing makeup so I'm obviously trying to entice men", "I was nice to that guy and it made him lose control", etc. So, not only will I be victimized by the rapist, but I was have to deal with society rubbing salt in those huge festering wounds and spend my time judging what I should or shouldn't have done rather than simply loving me and comforting me in my time of grief and anguish.
Again, I ask why? What purpose does it serve? I guarantee that almost all rape victims will go over and over in their minds what they wished they would have done or didn't do. No one needs to do that for them. No one.
So, let's teach all women skills to defend themselves and ways to make wise decisions and how to honor themselves and their bodies by how they dress, but let's leave the game of what percentage is the victim responsibility for sicko rapists actions out of the equation.
The fact is, the Bible is clear - I have no one to blame for my sins other than myself. It doesn't matter if I am starving and someone hangs my all-time favorite food in front of my face and tells me to eat even if I would be stealing. I have a choice and no matter what kind of pressures are exerted on me, I have no one to blame but myself if I make the wrong choice. Period. End of story.
And I will never, ever, EVER let a rapist think even for a moment that him raping the scantily clad, drunk, prostitute who climbed into his car at 2am is somehow less of a crime or not as "bad" as raping the teenager girl covered from head to toe, stone cold sober and getting off her schoolbus. Rape is rape. Being a stupid victim is nothing more than being a stupid victim. No more, no less. It doesn't make one any less of a victim of a horribly brutal crime.
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Did you ever notice there are no recipes for leftover chocolate?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 3:37:17 PM
|
|
|
hnt
Posts: 660
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
benelchi: Its not SOME that have major character flaws. ALL of them do! Having a perceived notion that its acceptable by their peers doesn't show they don't have the flaw.
To a point I agree with you; however, many people who are today are accepted into our society as normal have committed horrible atrocities when social pressure permitted or encouraged it. A drastic example would be the many who were caught up in the Nazi party during WWII and often engaged in rape.And then there are those like Jeffrey Dahmer who have such clear and major character flaws and demonstrate anti social behavior that it is clear that social pressure is not going to influence their behavior.
quote:
I don't care what the circumstances are. Rape is illegal, immoral, sinful, etc under any circumstance. They are kidding themselves if they think its more or less acceptable because of the circumstance they were placed with.
Agreed! it is always wrong no matter what peers or society says. That really is my point! In the same way immodest dress for women is always wrong no matter what peers or society says. Our standard comes from God's word and not from peers or society.
Not all the German's drank Hitler's koolaid benelchi! I would hope the ones that did truly repent for the fact they did! There are also alot of honorable people that died because they wouldn't put up with social pressures. Who do you feel God looks at as more honorable in the face of soceity's pressures? The ones that went along, or the ones that died because they wouldn't?
You are very right that our standard comes from God's word, and not from peers or soceity. Its soceity that tells us that dressing a certain way makes the perverts of this world go for it! The fact of the matter is if every woman dressed properly it would still happen, because of the brokeness within the rapist. Their brokeness is what makes them do it.
I have been placed in situations where I wasn't at the wrong places, wearing the wrong outfits, acting wrong - nothing. I have been whistled at, queered at, stared at, etc. If God forbid I would been raped - what I question is why soceity would question FIRST how modest I was before being concerned about the pervert in the neighborhood? There is something wrong with that! To me they are looking for excuses to blame the victim, because they don't want to face the more ugly prospect that someone lacks self control!
Why do we never speak about self control like we do modesty? I remember one time in church the pastor was speaking of the blouses, etc as you did. The lady next to me was a very attractive women, and she was dressed very modestly. There was nothing improper about her at all, and yet as we were exiting church - you could feel the men's eyes upon her. I wasn't HER and I felt it! lol and I was next to her!
No one wants to speak as loudly about that part. lol I always wondered WHY! When you have counterdictions like that - that as well is very present - it could also play a part in this discussion. Its generally shoved off to the side with the excuse that men are visual. When we do that it makes the issue lopsided. I guess you could still bring the modesty issue in, but the way its presented alot of time makes it sound like men have no control whatsoever! I know that is completely FALSE! You don't see to many men jumping in to correct that tho!  There are alot of men in this world that use modesty as an excuse for their wandering eyes. I have to wonder how much of this would be stomped out if the wandering eyes wasn't acceptable. If it were pushed as much as the rest?
I don't believe for one minute if a person that was dressed to nines, and in the wrong place at the wrong time got raped - and was fighting off the attacker - that it wasn't his brokeness that place her in that position. Brokeness is what causes rape. Not clothes. Not places. She be acting like she asked for it as some people say, but a broken person is the one that does it anyway. People hand the broken person excuses when they bring up some of this stuff. I don't understand that part either.
_____________________________
h
Emotional abuse and Faith
Reaching for IT!!!!!!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 4:04:34 PM
|
|
|
Sideways
Posts: 3366
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: hnt
I have been placed in situations where I wasn't at the wrong places, wearing the wrong outfits, acting wrong - nothing. I have been whistled at, queered at, stared at, etc. If God forbid I would been raped - what I question is why soceity would question FIRST how modest I was before being concerned about the pervert in the neighborhood? There is something wrong with that! To me they are looking for excuses to blame the victim, because they don't want to face the more ugly prospect that someone lacks self control!
Why do we never speak about self control like we do modesty? I remember one time in church the pastor was speaking of the blouses, etc as you did. The lady next to me was a very attractive women, and she was dressed very modestly. There was nothing improper about her at all, and yet as we were exiting church - you could feel the men's eyes upon her. I wasn't HER and I felt it! lol and I was next to her!
Because men would rather look for some fault in the women then look for any fault in themselves.
And male pastors (especially the more conservative ones in my experience) would rather lecture women on what type of shirt and skirt to wear then lecture men on self control. Because of the age-old excuse that men are visual creatures and therefore it's the females responsibility to keep them from sinning.
*sigh* And we are called the weaker vessels. Physically they're right, but sometimes when I hear stories like yours, I gotta wonder.
_____________________________
Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. If you see a crocodile, don't forget to scream.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 4:36:40 PM
|
|
|
phosadaud
Posts: 10572
Joined: 9/19/2005
From: Washington State
Status: offline
|
Well, remember what Adam did when confronted by God in the Garden? "It was Eve's fault". 
And I do get tired of hearing how men are visual so it's somehow ok for them to lust if women dress wrong. Here's a shocker - I had to repent in church this morning when I caught myself eyeing a married guy's bum. I could say it's because of what he wore and the fact that he obviously worked out, but the fact is: I looked, I dwelled, I pondered = my fault, my responsibility, my sin.
So, just as Scripture doesn't say - men love your wives and do not be harsh with them unless of course, they nag you and say mean things, it also doesn't say do not lust unless of course the woman is wearing a low-cut top and a short skirt.
I find it interesting that when Paul speaks of women dressed modestly and of lust, he doesn't intrinsically link the two. They are separate passages and separate discussions. I think there is a reason for that. When you link the two, you are giving people an excuse - consciously or subconsciously. It doesn't matter if men are visual and struggle with lust - women should dress modestly --> regardless! And it doesn't matter if women wear a burka or a bikini - men shouldn't lust --> regardless!
By the way - I do feel the need to address the idea that rape is all about sex and not control. There are many ways men can get sex without raping a woman (ever hear about the world's oldest profession? anyone?). So why force a woman? There is more to it than sex folks - WAYYYYYYY more. One thing to note is that most child molesters are married men. Not the single guy not "getting any".
_____________________________
~Kristin~
Did you ever notice there are no recipes for leftover chocolate?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Did She ASK for It? - 11/16/2008 4:48:50 PM
|
|
|
Qtman
Posts: 6323
Joined: 3/21/2006
From: Crimson Tide Country
Status: offline
|
I know this is not enough for a scientific study but I have only asked one man this question. I usually am more focused on, as you heard on Dragnet, Just the facts maam just the facts. I did ask on guy, Why did you rape her. I was astounded by his answer. He looked straight at me and answered "Because she was there". I repeat with the exception of maybe date rape and even those most of the time it is a crime of opportunity. Someone else pointed out they look for weakness and ease more than dress. That is another reason drugs and other chemicals are used. It is to simply reduce resistance.
If I was prone to commit rape I certainly would not pick a woman I knew to be a fourth degree Black Belt martial artist. I am not out to get my backside kicked. I would avoid her if she was stark naked and that is about as provocative as you can get.
However, I do agree with Benelchi in that dress can be a factor, actions can can be a factor, location can be a factor but, opportunity is always a factor.
_____________________________
At one time Jesus was my co-pilot. Things are much better now that He and I have changed seats.
<Me & my happyplate at Lobster Hut
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
