Did She ASK for It?

Did She ASK for It? (Full Version)

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[Poll]

Did She ASK for It?

Yes, but the assailant is entirely responsible for his actions.

9% (2)

Yes, she should know better & the case should be dropped.

4% (1)

No, a woman should be able to dress as she pleases, regardless!

52% (11)

No, but she should know that her behavior is irresponsible

33% (7)

Total Votes : 21

(last vote on : 11/21/2008 1:33:55 PM)
(Poll ended: 11/21/2008 2:00:00 AM)

Message

DuckTalk -> Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 6:42:16 PM)
In 15 minutes, 'm outta here for the weekend (vow never to use computer on weekends) but I want to pose a very serious question before I come back on monday & see what your different feelings are on the subject. If a female (of any age) dresses provocatively and she is a victim of a sexual assualt, do you think she is subject to any blame at all for provoking or causing the assault? ***edited note: This may be considered the wrong thread for this question, but I am aiming at the Christian responsibility of proper appearance. EDITED BY MOD The OP has now added a poll, originally posted here quote: ORIGINAL: DuckTalk I have seen a lot of yes & no answers to the thread titled "Did She ASK For It" & now in an honest effort to calculate an accurate count of how many of us believe it is fair to say or not that if a female dresses provocatively and she is a victim of a sexual assualt, then she is subject to blame for provoking or causing the assault, I am posting this poll. Please answer the QUESTION as follows by options listed, not the title of the thread: I believe if a woman "intentionally" dresses provocatively in an effort to attract a man sexually, then she is partly to blame for provoking aggressive behavior from an assailant. Keep in mind that her intentions are premeditated to be sexually provocative & attractive, not just dressing stylish or fashionably. Options are as follows:

LCannon -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 6:55:51 PM)
'But one is tempted by one's own desire, being lured and enticed by it then when that desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and that sin, when it is fully grown, gives birth to death.'(Jam 1:14,15) He is responsible for his actions/imaginations regardless of her dress or even incitement. Likewise on the other side the coin. There's no excuse for letting or allowing either gender's animal instinct run amok.

Child4Jesus -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 6:56:13 PM)
No. Women who dress covering from head to toe get sexually assaulted too.

BugLady -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 7:08:09 PM)
quote: If a female (of any age) dresses provocatively and she is a victim of a sexual assualt, do you think she is subject to any blame at all for provoking or causing the assault? No. Sexual assaults are a form of violent aggression. The assault is about controlling the victim not sex.

rcjames -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 7:17:49 PM)
NO Thanks RC

Kath -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 7:18:23 PM)
Moving from GF to Morality/Ethics

Bluethread -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 7:38:12 PM)
I think it is a little inconsistant for anyone male or female to expect society to protect them, if they will take reasonable precautions. According to current law, it is illegal to leave one's keys in one's car, because this encourages theft. I believe that women should be provided with body guards, but I'm just one of those sexist, racist, homophobes who thinks men should have certain special things also.

leonfigg3 -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 7:43:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bluethread I think it is a little inconsistant for anyone male or female to expect society to protect them, if they will take reasonable precautions. According to current law, it is illegal to leave one's keys in one's car, because this encourages theft. I believe that women should be provided with body guards, but I'm just one of those sexist, racist, homophobes who thinks men should have certain special things also. Just what "certain special things" are you talking about? In answer to the thread, Of course not.

Bluethread -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 7:55:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: leonfigg3 quote: ORIGINAL: Bluethread I think it is a little inconsistant for anyone male or female to expect society to protect them, if they will take reasonable precautions. According to current law, it is illegal to leave one's keys in one's car, because this encourages theft. I believe that women should be provided with body guards, but I'm just one of those sexist, racist, homophobes who thinks men should have certain special things also. Just what "certain special things" are you talking about? In answer to the thread, Of course not. I can stay on topic. I think fathers and husbands should have the right to have some control over where the women they are responsible for can go.

TrustingGod -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 8:11:41 PM)
No one deserves to assaulted - period. Women should be aware that their dress can send signals to men that they aren't intending to send. However, this never gives a man the right to attack a woman.

Ps103 -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 8:36:09 PM)
I know I am going to get flack for this, but I am of two minds about it. If it is a complete stranger, then no. She is immodest and tasteless, but not guilty of "asking for it." If a woman dresses provocatively and goes to a party or a club, flirts outrageously (and I don't mean just winking) with some drunken guy and she herself is drunk and they have sex, I am not entirely sure she was not equally at fault for what happened. I used to see that happen a lot at college, and the next day the girls were wailing and the guys didn't even remember what happened. I didn't have much sympathy for either party in those cases.

zamdad -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 8:42:35 PM)
No. quote: I think fathers and husbands should have the right to have some control over where the women they are responsible for can go. Interesting. Please explain.

figmentPez -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 8:53:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DuckTalk If a female (of any age) dresses provocatively and she is a victim of a sexual assualt, do you think she is subject to any blame at all for provoking or causing the assault? This is a very general question. I think it's akin to asking if someone is intentionally rude and insulting, do you think that they're at all to blame for provoking or causing a punch in the nose? In general, no, simply being rude is not enough for someone to be blamed for provoking someone else to punch them in the nose. However, that doesn't mean it's impossible for rudeness and insult to be to blame for inciting physical assault. Lets say a man, for whatever reasons, decides to taunt some thugs with as much verbal abuse as he possibly can. He heads out to a known gang hang-out, and picks out the largest gangster he can find, preferrably one with a poorly-concealed weapon. The fool in question proceeds to insult Joe Thug's intelligence, his appearance, his parentage, his manhood, his courage and everything else he can think of. Joe Thug responds in predictable manner, by beating our fool unconscious. Certainly, Joe Thug is guilty of assault & battery, and probably some other crimes as well. However, just taking a beating doesn't absolve our hypothetical fool of wrongdoing. Even though Joe Thug was wrong to assault the fool, that does not change that the fool was wrong (and sinning) to be so rude. Any person in their right mind would realize that such rudeness would likely provoke violence. Does Mr. Fool actually deserve blame for causing the attack, though? Many of the thoughts expressed about a young woman's dress could be applied to a fool's big mouth. "No, people who are always polite and conscientious to a fault are assaulted, too." "No, physical assaults are a form of violent aggression. The assault is about punishing the victim, not about responding to rudeness." "No one deserves to be assaulted - period." I'm not sure such considerations can ever be fairly addressed. It's hard for me to accept, emotionally, that someone can be at fault, but at the same time not deserve what happened to them. I wish it were possible to address the horrible things that young women (and young men, for that matter) are doing to themselves by exploiting their own sexuality, without having to deal with all the confusion over if a victim of a crime might be guilty of something.

Qtman -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 9:34:59 PM)
To answer the OP basically the answer is no. Just the same as it is still considered rape at anytime the woman says no before the sexual act and you continue. No women is subject to an assualt either sexual or physical just because of the way they dress. On the other hand I agree with Ps103. If she goes out to a bar and openly flirts with some drunk and is herself drunk and they have consentual sex then they both got what they deserved. But in this case I would not consider it an assault.

Mrs.X -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/14/2008 11:22:22 PM)
I agree with FigmentPez. I think you put it very well.....same goes for nasty, violent, nagging wives who get beat by their husbands, johns who get robbed by hookers, etc.

Prairiehiker -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/15/2008 12:05:09 AM)
Taking your question at face value, and making no other assumption about the action of the girl, the answer is No, she's not asking for it. What is provocative to one man might not be to another. If one can prove that majority of the men she comes across would assault her because of the way she's dressed, then, you can infer that dressing in the manner that she's dressed is "asking for it". If dressing provocatively means asking to be assaulted, then every teen ager in the mall or women in any bars on a Friday night is asking for it because most of them are dressed in a provocative manner.

BugLady -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/15/2008 2:23:54 AM)
quote: If a woman dresses provocatively and goes to a party or a club, flirts outrageously (and I don't mean just winking) with some drunken guy and she herself is drunk and they have sex, I am not entirely sure she was not equally at fault for what happened. ...this doesn't sound like an "assault".

Sideways -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/15/2008 7:37:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mrs.X I agree with FigmentPez. I think you put it very well.....same goes for nasty, violent, nagging wives who get beat by their husbands, johns who get robbed by hookers, etc. I understand what you're saying, and to a point I agree with you, but it can be a slippery slide down to a road where if a women ever gets frustrated with her husband, if she ever raises her voice, if she ever is not submissive enough... you see where I'm going with this? It starts to get real easy to blame the women because the man was placed in a less then ideal marriage. As far as the women drunk at the bar and ends up sleeping with a man she wouldn't have sober, that's not assault, so it doesn't really factor into this question. It was stupid on the both people's parts, but does not qualify as assault. Now, if a man slipped a date rape drug into the woman's drink, that's assault. But going to a party dressed sexy or just walking down the street? No, absolutely she was not "asking for it".

Sideways -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/15/2008 7:40:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bluethread quote: ORIGINAL: leonfigg3 quote: ORIGINAL: Bluethread I think it is a little inconsistant for anyone male or female to expect society to protect them, if they will take reasonable precautions. According to current law, it is illegal to leave one's keys in one's car, because this encourages theft. I believe that women should be provided with body guards, but I'm just one of those sexist, racist, homophobes who thinks men should have certain special things also. Just what "certain special things" are you talking about? In answer to the thread, Of course not. I can stay on topic. I think fathers and husbands should have the right to have some control over where the women they are responsible for can go. Mmm, so women not allowed to go anywhere alone, and not allowed to travel without a husband or father's permission. Sounds a lot like Saudi Arabia. I think I'd rather take a self defense course and take my chances being raped then be that "safe". You know what they say "whoever sacrifices liberty for safety deserves neither".

3cappuccinosmom -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/15/2008 8:32:05 AM)
Taking the OP at face value, my answer is no. quote: quote: If a woman dresses provocatively and goes to a party or a club, flirts outrageously (and I don't mean just winking) with some drunken guy and she herself is drunk and they have sex, I am not entirely sure she was not equally at fault for what happened. ...this doesn't sound like an "assault". Yet is is often called assault/rape.

StephK -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/15/2008 9:47:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DuckTalk In 15 minutes, 'm outta here for the weekend (vow never to use computer on weekends) but I want to pose a very serious question before I come back on monday & see what your different feelings are on the subject. If a female (of any age) dresses provocatively and she is a victim of a sexual assualt, do you think she is subject to any blame at all for provoking or causing the assault? ***edited note: This may be considered the wrong thread for this question, but I am aiming at the Christian responsibility of proper appearance. No. Men should have the ability to control themselves and stop blaming women for their lack of self control. No means no. Consent can be rescinded at any point even if both parties are completely undressed. Now I don't think women should parade themselves in next to nothing but the way they are dressed does not give anyone the right to sexually assault them.

Sideways -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/15/2008 9:50:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom Taking the OP at face value, my answer is no. quote: quote: If a woman dresses provocatively and goes to a party or a club, flirts outrageously (and I don't mean just winking) with some drunken guy and she herself is drunk and they have sex, I am not entirely sure she was not equally at fault for what happened. ...this doesn't sound like an "assault". Yet is is often called assault/rape. I think that this may be a case of cognitive bias. We remember the cases where the women cried rape, the man said consent, and it turned out that drugs and alcohol were involved. We never hear about the thousands of drunken nights that never make the news. Yet, people remember the few news stories they hear, and so it feeds the idea that if a woman had a glass of beer, she has no business claiming rape.

Sideways -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/15/2008 9:53:57 AM)
This reminds me of a fictional TV show I watched where a woman's friends wanted her to accuse a man of rape, and she said she would not. She owned up to the fact that she was highly intoxicated, and while she never said yes, she didn't exactly say no either. It was a good program and gutsy in my opinion.

Prairiehiker -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/15/2008 10:23:56 AM)
quote: If a female (of any age) dresses provocatively and she is a victim of a sexual assault, do you think she is subject to any blame at all for provoking or causing the assault? Let's make something clear here. The OP states that the woman is dressed provocatively. Nothing was mentioned if the woman in question was drunked, or in a bar, or flirting, or picking up men. She was just dressed provocatively, which I really have no idea what that means. For some men, wearing tight jeans is provocative (seriously, just look at the he says forum ). We might as well accept the rules of the Taliban and wear a burka and cover women from head to toe, because for some men, every inch of skin makes them view women sexually. Is she asking for it because the men think with their other brain?

huangshan -> RE: Did She ASK for It? (11/15/2008 10:30:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BugLady quote: If a female (of any age) dresses provocatively and she is a victim of a sexual assualt, do you think she is subject to any blame at all for provoking or causing the assault? No. Sexual assaults are a form of violent aggression. The assault is about controlling the victim not sex. How do you figure?

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