Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Life] >> Finances



Message

helovesme72 -> Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (11/17/2008 12:19:44 AM)

In this atmosphere most board members will urge caution and delay “until things start getting better.” If we enter a long recession, it will be hard to launch any big new building program.
That quote is from this article: http://www.drurywriting.com/keith/recession.depression.htm

It's an article that I dug up while struggling with my reluctance to participate my church's building project during these times when people are struggling to keep food on the table!

Is it just me, or does it seem a bit frivolous for a church to launch - or forge ahead with - building a new building during these times? My thinking is that unless your church is literally crumbling and unsafe to worship in, lavish plans for new sanctuaries could and should be put on hold until economic conditions improve.

Now I know that some would argue that the church should not take its lead from the world and that God will make a way, regardless of what our circumstances look like. Well, pardon me for being too practical, but I'll say that I think these kind of times are when ministry leaders should be encouraging their members to shore up should things worsen - and they probably will! For Heaven's sake, shouldn't we be encouraging members to pay off debts and IMMEDIATELY stop charging things - unless it's an emergency. Families - and the church as a whole - should be saving what discretionary income they have so that we can help one another and those who may come into our midst seeking aid. I'm not suggesting that any of us stop tithing and honoring God with our firstfruits, but I am suggesting that asking members to "invest" huge portions of their "extra" funds into a "nonessential" new building may not be the wisest thing during a recession that might soon be a depression.

My church has had building plans in the works for at least 2 years now and shows no signs of slowing up...though I'm sure a big enough reduction in contributions may force the Board to put the project on hold. Thing is, there's nothing wrong with the building we currently worship in. It's a fairly large church, though not a megachurch - membership approx. 2,800. It's an old building, but very well maintained and remodeled from time to time. There have been no talks about any structural damage, but the reason we're building is because we've "outgrown" the building. I don't buy it. A more accurate assessment would be that our current building is underutilized.

Is it just me? Couldn't we add to a 3rd Sun. morning service to the two we already hold? Lord knows we've got morrrrrre than enough qualified ministers on staff!!! (So as not to burn out the pastor.) We could add a Sat. evening service...dear Lord, I'd love to do my worshipping on Sat. eve. and truly rest all day Sun.! (When you work in ministry, you learn than your day of worship is hardly a day of rest!) There could be a Sun. evening service as well for those who'd like to sleep in on Sun. morn. There are all kinds of options for increasing use of the building we have instead of forking out several million dollars for a new building. I should add, that the current building is not even half full on Wed. evenings for Bible study. We have a very strong music min., so we get big crowds on Sundays (not to say that the Word isn't good). I dunno, it just seems wasteful to me when I see churches build a new edifice (often to compete with Johnny New Church around the block) and the one they have is closed, vacant and unused for a better part of the week.

Would love to hear the thoughts of some other ministry leaders!?!?!



GregandJenny -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (11/17/2008 1:33:34 AM)

quote:

Is it just me, or does it seem a bit frivolous for a church to launch - or forge ahead with - building a new building during these times? My thinking is that unless your church is literally crumbling and unsafe to worship in, lavish plans for new sanctuaries could and should be put on hold until economic conditions improve.


Why should they wait? I was just telling my wife tonight that because we have been frugal in times of plenty and saved and planned we will be able to do things others won't in times of recession. If your church is ok financially and they have a plan and they have God's go ahead, then what's the problem?



10SNE1? -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (11/17/2008 5:32:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GregandJenny

quote:

Is it just me, or does it seem a bit frivolous for a church to launch - or forge ahead with - building a new building during these times? My thinking is that unless your church is literally crumbling and unsafe to worship in, lavish plans for new sanctuaries could and should be put on hold until economic conditions improve.


Why should they wait? I was just telling my wife tonight that because we have been frugal in times of plenty and saved and planned we will be able to do things others won't in times of recession. If your church is ok financially and they have a plan and they have God's go ahead, then what's the problem?


Many of us indeed will be able to do things which others won't in times of recession. The question for all Christians will be "What would God have us do with our excess?" Will it be to "take advantage of the situation" and pile up more toys, take more vacations or build bigger buildings/houses or will it be to use what God has entrusted to us to help others in need?

Yes, it is possible that a church is being lead to build....and the construction people who get the job will be blessed by the work. However, it is also possible that God is asking this congregation to make-do for a season and use what He has entrusted to help the "least of these" who might be just down the street these days.

Respecting leadership does not mean that members blindly follow. There is nothing wrong with respectably expressing concern. And, imo, just because an Elder Board votes to go ahead with a building project it does not follow that God is leading every member to contribute.



stellaluna -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (11/17/2008 11:21:06 AM)

quote:

Is it just me, or does it seem a bit frivolous for a church to launch - or forge ahead with - building a new building during these times? My thinking is that unless your church is literally crumbling and unsafe to worship in, lavish plans for new sanctuaries could and should be put on hold until economic conditions improve.

Perhaps. If, like you say, there is nothing wrong with the building you have now, I see no reason to forge wildly ahead immediately. But if your church leadership does feel strongly led by God to continue with construction plans, I don't know that there is anything you could do about it.

This does remind me of a post I saw on another board, though. A member of a church in my city--don't know which one--was bragging that his church is building all over the place, even though they are $7 million in debt. In that case, I not only believe that such a church should take a good look at the economy and its own finances, but that such a church is not a good example for stewardship. There are a lot of big churches building like crazy here and I do wonder when I drive by them if it's a good idea.



APZR -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (11/17/2008 12:36:42 PM)

If they are financially strong and able.... NOW IS the best time to build. Supplies are cheaper than ever, labor is plentiful, and it could be a great time for churches to expand their out reach.



CarlaJames -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (11/17/2008 5:13:58 PM)

I agree...my church has just started a capital campaign for a 16 million dollar edition. We have 3 services (adding 2 more in Jan) and are overflowing.

This is a great time to build. During a recession and hard times people who are not churched are looking for a place to gain peace, strengh, and understanding. If you've noticed (i.e. 911) during hard times people flock to churches. This is the perfect time to build bigger! Plus when people see this church growing in numbers and space in such hard times they will know God must have His hand in it. It will glorify Him!

I don't know about you, but....my God is bigger than the dollar bill.



PinkCarnations -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (11/20/2008 1:00:13 PM)

One of the churches that I've attended in the area is a great church. They have one Saturday night service and three Sunday morning services. They are building a new church for $15 million. If they were just doing this to accomodate seating for everyone, I'd be OK with it. They are adding a gym, "concession-stand" type of restaurant with seating and a coffee bar with Starbucks coffee. I guess it'll be nice to spend $20 a person on junk food and caffeine before services and then head to the gym after services. [sm=icon_smile_faint.gif]

There are an awful lot of other needs that aren't being met in the area.



creationtalk -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (11/29/2008 3:08:47 PM)

My church is building...or remodeling a newly purchased building...or rebuilding from Katrina in another place...however you want to define it. Anyway, we are doing it debt free with the help of volunteers and church members and relief organizations. The goal of the church is to provide a "sanctuary" in the neighborhood where people can come and hang out. I think this is a good time for us to build. For one thing, it gives us a a congregation something to look forward to, and its a strong testimony for our small congregation to be building the church in this way--there have been NO special offerings or anything for the purchase of building materials. It is all coming out of the normal church operating budget.



his_chosen -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (11/29/2008 5:44:01 PM)

We got burned when our church built a new auditorium. It was designed with all the gee-wizz techno stuff. Leather couches in the lobby. We pledged a certain amount that made sense at the time. Then, we had some unexpected expenses. We tried to keep with what we pledged. I ended up doing the old "let's see, I paid the electric bill last month but not the gas bill, so I better pay the gas bill this month and the electric will have to wait". So we backed off on the pledge payment and the church hounded us until we got caught up. We ended up using a line of credit to get out of that mess. We were not the only ones in the church that ended up in a financial mess due to the church's building project.

Although we haven't been hit too hard during this financial crisis, there is no way we could afford to cut back to contribute to another building project.

Everyone seems to be hit pretty hard right now. Why would a church consider building in such uncertain times?



Tinkerbell_ -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (12/3/2008 8:29:44 AM)

Our church goes into all building situations debt free. We paid off our original loan AND raised money for the newest addition. When that was 'paid for' we started building. Once we started building we started raising for the next phase and when that is 'paid for' we'll start on the next one and so forth and so forth.

This way we have it paid for before we even start AND if the recession does catch up with us we aren't left in a hard financial crunch.



APZR -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (12/3/2008 10:27:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: his_chosen

We got burned when our church built a new auditorium. It was designed with all the gee-wizz techno stuff. Leather couches in the lobby. We pledged a certain amount that made sense at the time. Then, we had some unexpected expenses. We tried to keep with what we pledged. I ended up doing the old "let's see, I paid the electric bill last month but not the gas bill, so I better pay the gas bill this month and the electric will have to wait". So we backed off on the pledge payment and the church hounded us until we got caught up. We ended up using a line of credit to get out of that mess. We were not the only ones in the church that ended up in a financial mess due to the church's building project.

If you can't keep up with a pledge, let the Church know that your income has just dropped and the original estimate will not be met. Using credit lines to keep up with a pledge is poor stewardship IMHO.



3tulips -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (12/3/2008 2:10:31 PM)

I agree APZR.

I just watched the old movie "The Bishop's Wife" with Cary Grant and Loretta Young. They were discussing this subject. Not building a new church but instead helping out the poor in their community during the lean times.



helovesme72 -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (12/5/2008 4:43:16 AM)

quote:

Many of us indeed will be able to do things which others won't in times of recession. The question for all Christians will be "What would God have us do with our excess?" Will it be to "take advantage of the situation" and pile up more toys, take more vacations or build bigger buildings/houses or will it be to use what God has entrusted to us to help others in need?


MY POINT EXACTLY!!!!!! Just because there is excess doesn't mean that's an automatic cue to build a new building. Too many churches focus on building brick and mortar buildings and neglect to build God's TRUE BUILDING - his people!

Yes, I agree, if the finances are looking good, then it should be ok to consider building, even during a recession. But as another poster suggested, this should be WITHOUT the need to institute all kinds of pledges, drive and other haggling to get members involved. If it's not in the operating budget to build, maybe we need to wait.

Now I didn't wanna throw race into this, but for the sake of my argument, I'm gonna do so. We're an AfrAm church. In a very AA city (ATL). With lots of societal ills in the AA community. And waaaaay too much "spiritual competition" (competitive jealousy, as one preacher puts it) among AA preachers. So I'm appalled at how lavish sanctuaries have taken precedence over true ministry. The millions of dollars sunk into buildings could be used to help curb problems in crime, illiteracy, education, poverty, homelessness, unemployment/underemployment, AIDS/diabetes/cancer/hypertension and some of the other diseases. May we stop overspiritualizing things and understand that the Lord is concerned with ALL of that which concerns us.

But now, I will give my pastor credit. He is NOT one of the money-monger preachers. We lean heavy towards local missions and outreach as well as making significant investments on the youth and education. He has even said that if we had to take from our outreach funds to build, we won't be building. That's what I like to hear.

But I'm still not feeling led to contribute excessively to a building. I like the poster who suggested that God may not be leading EVERY member in the church to help build the building. If we're all giving where God is leading us to give/serve, then all of our contributions should work together for the good. I'm fortifying my home and income to take in foster children. Shucks, I'd like to put a collection plate at my front door...



coolfamily6 -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (12/10/2008 9:13:08 AM)

We were in the midst of building a fitness center when things turned around. I believe that about 70-80% of it was done with cash and we are near the full amount being given. DH and I pledged and gave our amount. Now, God has blessed us and we have been careful with what He has given, we will give more because I know that not everyone can give the original pledges. Some due to selfish "me" spending, others due to job loss etc. which doesn't matter it only matters that we do what God is calling us to do.

Do I think we should have built this center? I voted no but I know that this is where God has called us to worship and I will support the ministery. Yes, there are a lot of bells and whistles in the center: a cafe', showers, a media/computer center etc. It will also be used as a place for the homeless to shower and hopefully in the future get a meal. We have "adopted" the middle school near by and will do after school tutoring in the media room, pickup basketball games and other activities for the teens and we are going to help repaint and repair the school itself because of local budget cuts. This ministry is a direct result of the fitness ctr.



lynnmoon -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (12/12/2008 3:46:21 PM)

helovesme72, your post here is all the answer to your original question that any of us need to follow really, IMO.

quote:

But I'm still not feeling led to contribute excessively to a building. I like the poster who suggested that God may not be leading EVERY member in the church to help build the building. If we're all giving where God is leading us to give/serve, then all of our contributions should work together for the good.


God calls each of us to be responsible and good stewards of what He has given to us. Despite good spiritual talk, NOBODY knows what God wants you to do with your money other than you and HE. I don't kick in money to support the building of stuff that I don't know that God wants me to support...and don't think that anyone should feel badly about it. If God want's it done, HE'LL MAKE A WAY so I don't stress about that.

Maybe this new building venture is indeed God's will for your congregation, maybe it's not. But either way, it may not be God's will for YOUR MONEY at this point and that's just fine. You pray and offer your financial support to the ventures that you believe that God is directing you toward.

Now, if you really feel like your congregation needs a nudge of some sort about spending in a wrong direction, the only thing that I think might be appropriate (since all the voting and such has been done and passed) would be a well written letter discussing the ministry directions that you feel God is nuding you about. If you've got some specific ideas for ministry to the community that your church should be providing, speak up for sure!!!! They might have the money to do the building AND the other ministry. It's just that nobody has stepped up or has felt called to provide that ministry service. KWIM?

That's my 25 cents! But I do have a somewhat different philosophy about a lot of ministries than some other people. Guilt need never be used to force people to participate. If God is in a thing (whatever the thing), then He is certainly big enough to convict the hearts of enough people to make it so. I hate it when people beg for money to build a larger sanctuary or a gym. Or are constantly pleading for folks to join the "ABC ministry". I think that's bad bsuiness and we do run the risk of encouraging bad stewardship...because we are forcing people or guilting people into things that God hasn't moved them toward in His own time.

Don't beg, just ask your congregation to pray. If not enough people are in support enough to cover the cost THEN that is a good sign that you need to chill out TILL God provides the funds. Like many who posted, my church generally operates debt free. If we don't have money for it now, we don't do it now.

So, when people start harping on the building funds and such, I don't get stressed. If God gives me no urging to be involved, I DON'T and don't stress the failure of the project. God's plan will succeed in God's time.



kernsfamily -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (12/12/2008 3:51:57 PM)

quote:

Do I think we should have built this center? I voted no but I know that this is where God has called us to worship and I will support the ministery. Yes, there are a lot of bells and whistles in the center: a cafe', showers, a media/computer center etc.


Our church has a very similar type of facility, which we completed in about 2004 or so....a sports & fitness center....youth sports leagues....and, a cafe....and many other amenities...

you may be a bit "skeptical" now...but, you will be VERY pleased with the results, once your center has been "up and running".....it's been a terrific outreach "tool", as well as opportunity for fellowship. It has blessed our church, and the entire community, tremendously.



Eutychus -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (12/12/2008 4:13:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kernsfamily

quote:

Do I think we should have built this center? I voted no but I know that this is where God has called us to worship and I will support the ministery. Yes, there are a lot of bells and whistles in the center: a cafe', showers, a media/computer center etc.


Our church has a very similar type of facility, which we completed in about 2004 or so....a sports & fitness center....youth sports leagues....and, a cafe....and many other amenities...

you may be a bit "skeptical" now...but, you will be VERY pleased with the results, once your center has been "up and running".....it's been a terrific outreach "tool", as well as opportunity for fellowship. It has blessed our church, and the entire community, tremendously.

In addition, God is not limited in times of recession or economic chaos. If He leads to build, then He can and will provide.



mckystade -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (1/9/2009 10:58:17 AM)

Well, people will have to say "look what the Lord has done" to have a big and successful building project during these times. Maybe that's the point. While we have questions about things such as this, we shouldn't question a man of God who has heard from God about moving forward with things like this. If you don't have confidence in your leadership's ability to hear from God, then find another church. I'm sure yours won't be sad to see you go if you are going against a move of God or questioning their leadership abilities. I'm sure that they are hearing it from every way and greatly need encouragement.



FreeEagle -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (1/10/2009 7:44:43 PM)

quote:

Is it just me, or does it seem a bit frivolous for a church to launch - or forge ahead with - building a new building during these times?


First I must say that your perception of building a church is all wrong...... In Mathew 28:19, Jesus words before his ascension to heaven were for us to "Go and make disciples of all nations", then in Acts, we see the full development of the first churches. And we are taught through Acts, and the letters of Paul EXACTLY how to build the church. No where in the new testament is the church a BUILDING. The church is the body of Christ, and the body is made of the PEOPLE who believe in Jesus. We are to go out and multiply the number of people added to the body of believers. The idea of a building being the church is a worldly view, and is marketed like a business, saying LOOK what we (man) did - and not LOOK at the grace of God. Read Romans 12:1-6, and Colossians chapters 2 & 3.



StephK -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (1/13/2009 8:05:21 AM)

I think it would be better to use the hard earned tithes of the members to do more meeting of physical needs of the community during tough economic times than to build a building that will require more and more resources to maintain. Not all of those churches are able to meet their mortgages according to the NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/business/27church.html?_r=3&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all



PinkCarnations -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (1/13/2009 12:21:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

I think it would be better to use the hard earned tithes of the members to do more meeting of physical needs of the community during tough economic times than to build a building that will require more and more resources to maintain. Not all of those churches are able to meet their mortgages according to the NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/business/27church.html?_r=3&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all



I agree StephK. There is a church in our area that is expanding. Yes, they do need a larger sanctuary since the pastor is preaching 4 or 5 sermons over the weekend just so they can accomodate everyone. But I fail to see how the expensive coffee bar is going to help anyone, especially since if you don't have transportation, you can't even get to the church. [8|]



creationtalk -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (1/16/2009 10:34:12 PM)

If we were to not build, our congregation would be faced with the choice of either continuing to take advantage of the good natures of the congregation that is graciously sharing their building with us (going on 3 years now...since not too long after Hur. Katrina) OR our congregation would be forced to disband.

We see this building project (in which many of us are participating--by actually going to the building, pounding nails, or what ever needs done) as a training ground for missions trips to other areas of the country and world that have experienced what we have. Our building project took a piece of property that was considered a "snake and rat haven" by residents around and is turning it into a place that people are proud to have in their neighborhood.

I've seen building projects in churches that I thought were poorly planned and executed, that borrowed significant amounts of money then had difficulty repaying. However, not every building project, no matter HOW large is necessarily "frivolous" I was in one church where a congregation of 30 bought an old courthouse that many had been empty for years and was in horrible shape inside. 10 years later, the congregation had grown to 700 adults, we had paid off the original loan and paid cash for the land and a bus. The new complex cost 2.5 million (15 years ago) and was paid off within 5 years--and last I talked to some of the people there they were saying that they maybe should have made the building larger since they were packed for both services. The youth center had activities several nights a week, the children's minister was being invited into schools to speak. Our original building was given to another congregation in the community that did not have a building of their own. Oh, by the way, the other congregation was NOT the same denomination.



StephK -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (1/19/2009 8:59:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roberta_

quote:

ORIGINAL: StephK

I think it would be better to use the hard earned tithes of the members to do more meeting of physical needs of the community during tough economic times than to build a building that will require more and more resources to maintain. Not all of those churches are able to meet their mortgages according to the NYT.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/27/business/27church.html?_r=3&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all



I agree StephK. There is a church in our area that is expanding. Yes, they do need a larger sanctuary since the pastor is preaching 4 or 5 sermons over the weekend just so they can accomodate everyone. But I fail to see how the expensive coffee bar is going to help anyone, especially since if you don't have transportation, you can't even get to the church. [8|]


There is no "NEED" for the fru fru. It's one thing to build to accommodate more people but to put a burden on the congregation that may be going through some tough economic times in order to pay for the wood, hay and stubble is kind of dumb. IMO



StephK -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (1/19/2009 9:06:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: creationtalk

If we were to not build, our congregation would be faced with the choice of either continuing to take advantage of the good natures of the congregation that is graciously sharing their building with us (going on 3 years now...since not too long after Hur. Katrina) OR our congregation would be forced to disband.

We see this building project (in which many of us are participating--by actually going to the building, pounding nails, or what ever needs done) as a training ground for missions trips to other areas of the country and world that have experienced what we have. Our building project took a piece of property that was considered a "snake and rat haven" by residents around and is turning it into a place that people are proud to have in their neighborhood.

I've seen building projects in churches that I thought were poorly planned and executed, that borrowed significant amounts of money then had difficulty repaying. However, not every building project, no matter HOW large is necessarily "frivolous" I was in one church where a congregation of 30 bought an old courthouse that many had been empty for years and was in horrible shape inside. 10 years later, the congregation had grown to 700 adults, we had paid off the original loan and paid cash for the land and a bus. The new complex cost 2.5 million (15 years ago) and was paid off within 5 years--and last I talked to some of the people there they were saying that they maybe should have made the building larger since they were packed for both services. The youth center had activities several nights a week, the children's minister was being invited into schools to speak. Our original building was given to another congregation in the community that did not have a building of their own. Oh, by the way, the other congregation was NOT the same denomination.


There is nothing wrong with building a new facility if that is truly a need of the congregation. I was a member of a church that had a paid for complex that was more than sufficient for the needs of the church and community. However, the neighborhood was in decline so the church purchased some very high dollar real estate then went into debt (and hounded the members to suck it up and give more) to build a $10+ million dollar sanctuary that got severely damaged in Hurricane Rita. This church did not house any of the Katrina people like every other church did in the area. The ironic part was that the old sanctuary and campus was used for FEMA as a distribution point because it received zero damage.



P31W -> RE: Building New Churches in Times of Recession? (1/19/2009 9:35:58 AM)

quote:

MY POINT EXACTLY!!!!!! Just because there is excess doesn't mean that's an automatic cue to build a new building. Too many churches focus on building brick and mortar buildings and neglect to build God's TRUE BUILDING - his people!


To begin with -- those of us who take handling God's resources serious NEVER spend money on things we don't believe God is directing us to do. We just don't. It's His money and He directs us. So having excess resources anytime is not a reason to do this or that.

Do you realize that when you build something it employees hundreds of people? Had you rather they be unemployed and you give them a "hand out" and "nothing" of value is produced?

God may well have in store for a church to build a very large building. The call is not up to "me" and there is no reason for "me" to judge another congregation in this matter. There is not scripture that tells us we are not to build during a recession or a depression. (the church I grew up in was build during the great depression and it's still standing today and hundreds of people go there to worship God today.)

Doing what God directs them to do is what they should do regularless to what others may say or think. May didn't like the rebuilding of the temple or the walls. They lived in much harder times than we do.

quote:

But as another poster suggested, this should be WITHOUT the need to institute all kinds of pledges, drive and other haggling to get members involved. If it's not in the operating budget to build, maybe we need to wait.


Again the recession or even a depression aside this should never have to happen. Tell you what I did at a business meeting we had a few months ago. A group wanted the church to purchase something new through donations. (above the budget and it was a free will gift) Right before it came time to vote I let the congregation know that I would "abstain" from the vote not because I disagreeded with the purchase but because I "knew" I would not be contributing to it's purchase and didn't want people to think would through to yes vote or was against others doing this through a no vote. I simply emplained that for "our family" we are focused on the basic needs of our family, church, employees and business so we had no extra funds to give to things we believed were not necessities at "this time". Nor did we believe God was calling us to contribute to this cause.

By making these "non judgmental comments" it allowed others to say they would abstain from the vote for the same reason. This gave the group who wanted the new items and idea about who "would" help them or not help them make the purchase.

The vote ended up being postponed until another time.



Page: [1] 2   next >   >>



Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.5 ANSI