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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/4/2008 11:59:58 AM
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bolt.
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Unless they are under Church discipline (as professing believers) or causing a disruption to the functioning of the Church (as unbelievers).
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/4/2008 12:05:36 PM
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KatMack
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To sum up what I've read here and in other similar discussions...
It all comes down to HOW you define church and it's purpose. There seem to be two main schools of thoughts.
1. Church is a place for the saints. It's main purpose is for the growth and discipleship of believers.
2. Church is for reaching the lost. It's main purpose is to spread the gospel.
I, personally, fall into the first school of thought. The church, as laid out in the New Testament, is a gathering of believers tasked with building each other up and encouraging growth. Our PERSONAL commission is to reach out to the lost and spread the gospel. I don't see anywhere where that task is given to the church (if I'm wrong, please, please, please correct me... with scripture). I feel that the majority of Christians in Western culture have abdicated this responsibility to the church. We think that we spread the gospel by inviting our friends and family to church and then letting the church do the job of evangelizing them. From my studies, this is not what the Bible lays out for us. RC has done a great job of giving the scriptures that support this.
--Kat
_____________________________
<-- My sweet blessings.
"God will do what God will do. What I'm responsible for is to believe he's all he says he is and obey what he tells me to do. " -magdaleine
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/4/2008 12:15:13 PM
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rcjames
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KatMack
I feel that the majority of Christians in Western culture have abdicated this responsibility to the church. We think that we spread the gospel by inviting our friends and family to church and then letting the church do the job of evangelizing them. From my studies, this is not what the Bible lays out for us.
A most perceptive post.
Sad to say, but so many just drop a dollar in the plate and think they have fulfilled their calling.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/4/2008 12:20:49 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
Surly we make a major error when we exclude people who are in need of God's Grace, unless their being included is extremely detremental to the local church?
Well practicing pedeophiles, heretics (divisive folks), and trouble makers are certainly in need of God's Grace; so do we allow them access to the Church and the families that make up the Chruch?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/4/2008 12:23:40 PM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4173
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: KatMack
To sum up what I've read here and in other similar discussions...
It all comes down to HOW you define church and it's purpose. There seem to be two main schools of thoughts.
1. Church is a place for the saints. It's main purpose is for the growth and discipleship of believers.
2. Church is for reaching the lost. It's main purpose is to spread the gospel.
I, personally, fall into the first school of thought. The church, as laid out in the New Testament, is a gathering of believers tasked with building each other up and encouraging growth. Our PERSONAL commission is to reach out to the lost and spread the gospel. I don't see anywhere where that task is given to the church (if I'm wrong, please, please, please correct me... with scripture). I feel that the majority of Christians in Western culture have abdicated this responsibility to the church. We think that we spread the gospel by inviting our friends and family to church and then letting the church do the job of evangelizing them. From my studies, this is not what the Bible lays out for us. RC has done a great job of giving the scriptures that support this.
--Kat
These are my thoughts as well.
(Edited to add: I don't believe the lost should be turned away from the church doors unless they are being disruptive. There is room for all sorts of people to attend, but I think it needs to be made clear that there may be times that unbelievers are excluded from certain events, like business meetings. I don't believe there is ever a time it is appropriate for someone who is not a believer to become a member, because they are not like-minded and can't be held to the higher standards that Christians are held to.)
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/4/2008 12:37:14 PM
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KatMack
Posts: 602
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From: Along the Canopy Roads
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quote:
(Edited to add: I don't believe the lost should be turned away from the church doors unless they are being disruptive. There is room for all sorts of people to attend, but I think it needs to be made clear that there may be times that unbelievers are excluded from certain events, like business meetings. I don't believe there is ever a time it is appropriate for someone who is not a believer to become a member, because they are not like-minded and can't be held to the higher standards that Christians are held to.)
And I agree with you whole-heartedly there too!
--Kat
_____________________________
<-- My sweet blessings.
"God will do what God will do. What I'm responsible for is to believe he's all he says he is and obey what he tells me to do. " -magdaleine
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/4/2008 1:02:40 PM
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zoebob
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Excellent post Kat. That's a pretty good summery of how people believe. I agree with you on how scripture teaches it too.
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L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/4/2008 3:45:34 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4941
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quote:
I don't believe the lost should be turned away from the church doors unless they are being disruptive.
I guess I'd want to know why they were there. I think if a person was attending church regularly but was unsaved, I would want to have a talk with them and find out their reason for attending. Unbelievers just don't attend church on a regular basis for no reason. Then I'd go from there.
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/4/2008 3:55:52 PM
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stellaluna
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That's true, too.
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 8:24:47 AM
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TheTartanTammy
Posts: 817
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From: North Britain!!!!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Consecrated2God
quote:
I don't believe the lost should be turned away from the church doors unless they are being disruptive.
I guess I'd want to know why they were there. I think if a person was attending church regularly but was unsaved, I would want to have a talk with them and find out their reason for attending. Unbelievers just don't attend church on a regular basis for no reason. Then I'd go from there.
_____________________________
TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 8:26:28 AM
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TheTartanTammy
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But if someone is attending church on a regular basis over a long period, could it be that they are under conviction, and that God is dealing with them in His own time?
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TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 8:31:41 AM
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Consecrated2God
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It could be. I think a conversation would reveal that. The pastor could sit down with them and say, "I'm curious--I know you haven't made a commitment to Jesus Christ...could you tell me why are here?" If that was the answer--that they felt drawn, that God was doing something in their lives but they just weren't quite ready to make the commitment, I would think it was an acceptable answer if it rang true.
Here's one for you all: Would you let someone stay who was only there to make themselves look good? If you asked them, "Why are you here" and their honest answer was, "I'm a politician and I think it's good for my chances of being re-elected if I go to church", would you let them stay?
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 8:55:48 AM
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Tinkerbell_
Posts: 8033
Joined: 1/25/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
But if someone is attending church on a regular basis over a long period, could it be that they are under conviction, and that God is dealing with them in His own time?
We had a guy attending our church for YEARS and was a wonderful man, his wife was an outstanding woman who was strong in the Lord and one day he went to the altar and was saved. NO ONE had a CLUE he wasn't.
I honestly don't think the church was in denial because even my family was surprised so even if people behave as if they're saved, that doesn't mean they are.
_____________________________
When I've shown you that I just don't care
When I'm throwing punches in the air
When I'm broken down and I can't stand
Will you be strong enough to be my man?
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 10:09:19 AM
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stellaluna
Posts: 4173
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
But if someone is attending church on a regular basis over a long period, could it be that they are under conviction, and that God is dealing with them in His own time?
Of course. And I'm sure it happens all the time. When I look out over the 500 or so members of the congregation during one of our services, I can't tell by looking which are saved and which aren't. God knows and probably the ministry staff has some idea about some people.
You're new and probably missed my explanation earlier that my thread title was not the best choice of words. The point of this thread is whether the church (defined here as a regular gathering, probably in a church building) should be used to feed the flock or reach the lost. If you look up at KatMack's last post, that is the best way to sum things up.
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 10:10:18 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4941
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quote:
The point of this thread is whether the church (defined here as a regular gathering, probably in a church building) should be used to feed the flock or reach the lost.
Feed the flock, absolutely.
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 10:14:40 AM
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stellaluna
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For the record, I grew up with what you might call the "traditional" altar call during every church service. My current church doesn't do that. Individual prayer is offered at the end of the service and there is a room off the sanctuary that is open after services for new people and visitors to meet the pastor, but there is no mention of "making a decision for Christ" or whatever verbage.
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 10:40:26 AM
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kernsfamily
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
For the record, I grew up with what you might call the "traditional" altar call during every church service. My current church doesn't do that. Individual prayer is offered at the end of the service and there is a room off the sanctuary that is open after services for new people and visitors to meet the pastor, but there is no mention of "making a decision for Christ" or whatever verbage.
Our current church ALWAYS has an "altar call" towards the end of the church service. As our pastor "wraps up" his sermon, he "transitions" the message that was just given nicely into the need to "make a decision for christ"....and, it's also a time to come forward to join the church....or, to "re-dedicate" your life to Christ....
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 10:45:20 AM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 803
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From: Dallas (originally Detroit)
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quote:
You're new and probably missed my explanation earlier that my thread title was not the best choice of words. The point of this thread is whether the church (defined here as a regular gathering, probably in a church building) should be used to feed the flock or reach the lost. If you look up at KatMack's last post, that is the best way to sum things up.
Our church does both....(though, when it comes to reaching the "lost", while the church does a phenomenal job with "facilitating" ways to reach the lost, it is always the members of the congregation that follow through and carry out the "mission")...
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 12:25:24 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4941
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
ORIGINAL: kernsfamily
quote:
ORIGINAL: stellaluna
For the record, I grew up with what you might call the "traditional" altar call during every church service. My current church doesn't do that. Individual prayer is offered at the end of the service and there is a room off the sanctuary that is open after services for new people and visitors to meet the pastor, but there is no mention of "making a decision for Christ" or whatever verbage.
Our current church ALWAYS has an "altar call" towards the end of the church service. As our pastor "wraps up" his sermon, he "transitions" the message that was just given nicely into the need to "make a decision for christ"....and, it's also a time to come forward to join the church....or, to "re-dedicate" your life to Christ....
I think that's fine, especially for larger churches. Our church doesn't do that, because we have hardly anyone there. I think in the "olden days"  preaching was much more evangelistic in nature, and if you didn't preach the gospel each and every time you were together, you weren't really preaching.
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 4:26:02 PM
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TheTartanTammy
Posts: 817
Joined: 12/2/2008
From: North Britain!!!!
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I am born again in a Scottish context (once known as the land of the book!). I do not from my 11 years experience as a Christian, and my 18 months experience as a Pastor think it is an either or situation. I believe that the 'Church' exists for boththe saved and the lost. Jesus says that He has sheep who are yet to respond to His voice!
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TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 4:36:24 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
I am born again in a Scottish context (once known as the land of the book!). I do not from my 11 years experience as a Christian, and my 18 months experience as a Pastor think it is an either or situation. I believe that the 'Church' exists for boththe saved and the lost. Jesus says that He has sheep who are yet to respond to His voice!
(Act 2:47) Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
Please note that those such as were saved were added to the Church. (Not the lost).
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 6:08:30 PM
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TheTartanTammy
Posts: 817
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True, but maybe we are talking at cross purposes. The true church is made up of living stones, yet when we think of 'church' we tend to think of church buildings where people (unregenerate) come to hear the word and coming under conviction end up joining the true church thru salvation.
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TheTartanTammy
Isa 40: 11
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 6:41:21 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6747
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TheTartanTammy
True, but maybe we are talking at cross purposes. The true church is made up of living stones, yet when we think of 'church' we tend to think of church buildings where people (unregenerate) come to hear the word and coming under conviction end up joining the true church thru salvation.
Maybe that is what you think a (local Church) is, but I feel that it is a gathering of the Saints and that they are gathered for the Scripture given purpose of;
(Eph 4:11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
(Eph 4:12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
(Eph 4:13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Church is for the edifying and growth of the Saints unto the stature of the fullness of Christ.
Church is for Christians!
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Who should be allowed to attend church? - 12/5/2008 6:51:35 PM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4941
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
From HERE:
quote:
(For the purposes of this thread, "church" refers to a regular gathering of believers.)
The OP has defined the word "church" for this thread. If you want to debate the meaning of the word, please start another discussion. Let's stay on topic, and discuss who should be allowed to attend the regular gathering of believers.
Sincerely,
Lisa Luper
Moderator
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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