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Salary? - 11/17/2008 5:37:35 PM
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rolling
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A quick look at 1Co.12 shows every 'body part' functioning, ministering one to another. There are about 58 'one to another' verses in the N.T. If all are ministering, then who gets the salary, that that coveted position promises?
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RE: Salary? - 11/18/2008 8:20:07 PM
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bolt.
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When a group of people recognize "Hey, there's a person that is gifted and well trained in their area of calling. We think we would all benefit if they didn't have to work a regular job and could dedicate all their time to this sort of thing."
Then all those people get together and manage their donations in such a way as to replace that person's potential secular salary so that they might spend their wage-earning hours in ministry. Depending on the financial capacity of that gathering of people, they may choose to do this for lots of ministers or only one, or for a variety of partial-pay half-regular-job kind of situations.
On the side: Nobody should covet a ministry position. It's nice to earn one's bread in this way, but it is not critical to the Church in any case. Plus, coveting is a sin, and anybody who is in that space is nowhere near ready to be a full time servant on behalf of a group of others.
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RE: Salary? - 11/19/2008 5:45:38 PM
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rolling
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In acts 20, Paul enjoins the elders to work jobs so they could support the poor in their midst. This is in the gathering of the believers to the edification of one another.
Apostles, our closest equivalent today is the missionary, are entitled to financial support. But even Paul refused this so as not to hinder the gospel. I have never heard this preached by the way. So to try to find in the N.T. the single salaried pastor will prove futile. it's not there. The muzzle the ox scripture is dealing with the 'honoring of those that labor in the word.' And they should be.
Even if you could squeeze out of that verse some ground for the sanctioning of salaries, Acts 20 concerning the elders blows it out of the water. Also the fact that every member ministered in turn, a song, a word, a teaching, a prophecy, a tongue, and interpretation of tongues, etc.etc.
Not much left to do to warrant a one man show with parsonage, salary and retirement account.
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RE: Salary? - 11/19/2008 6:14:59 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1398
Joined: 9/2/2005
From: Where We Shake, Rattle & Roll!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rolling
In acts 20, Paul enjoins the elders to work jobs so they could support the poor in their midst. This is in the gathering of the believers to the edification of one another.
Apostles, our closest equivalent today is the missionary, are entitled to financial support. But even Paul refused this so as not to hinder the gospel. I have never heard this preached by the way. So to try to find in the N.T. the single salaried pastor will prove futile. it's not there. The muzzle the ox scripture is dealing with the 'honoring of those that labor in the word.' And they should be.
Even if you could squeeze out of that verse some ground for the sanctioning of salaries, Acts 20 concerning the elders blows it out of the water. Also the fact that every member ministered in turn, a song, a word, a teaching, a prophecy, a tongue, and interpretation of tongues, etc.etc.
Not much left to do to warrant a one man show with parsonage, salary and retirement account.
Well, it doesn't bother me if you don't believe we should be paid. I will still gratefully accept my paycheck from the church I work for and thank God for it!
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Salary? - 11/19/2008 6:35:38 PM
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earthless
Posts: 5282
Joined: 4/11/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
When a group of people recognize "Hey, there's a person that is gifted and well trained in their area of calling. We think we would all benefit if they didn't have to work a regular job and could dedicate all their time to this sort of thing."
Then all those people get together and manage their donations in such a way as to replace that person's potential secular salary so that they might spend their wage-earning hours in ministry. Depending on the financial capacity of that gathering of people, they may choose to do this for lots of ministers or only one, or for a variety of partial-pay half-regular-job kind of situations.
On the side: Nobody should covet a ministry position. It's nice to earn one's bread in this way, but it is not critical to the Church in any case. Plus, coveting is a sin, and anybody who is in that space is nowhere near ready to be a full time servant on behalf of a group of others.
Amen! Great post and insight for those that covet the $$$$.
_____________________________
Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Salary? - 11/19/2008 6:49:41 PM
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DuckTalk
Posts: 102
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From: A Duck Hole in Tennessee
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quote:
ORIGINAL: pbaribeault
When a group of people recognize "Hey, there's a person that is gifted and well trained in their area of calling. We think we would all benefit if they didn't have to work a regular job and could dedicate all their time to this sort of thing."
Then all those people get together and manage their donations in such a way as to replace that person's potential secular salary so that they might spend their wage-earning hours in ministry. Depending on the financial capacity of that gathering of people, they may choose to do this for lots of ministers or only one, or for a variety of partial-pay half-regular-job kind of situations.
On the side: Nobody should covet a ministry position. It's nice to earn one's bread in this way, but it is not critical to the Church in any case. Plus, coveting is a sin, and anybody who is in that space is nowhere near ready to be a full time servant on behalf of a group of others.
Truly, TRULY a God-inspired, bullseye-on-target, answer!!
_____________________________
Sufferin' sassafrass. The nerve of some people, profitting from other people's miseries.
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RE: Salary? - 11/20/2008 11:13:16 AM
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rolling
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Duck Tail said: Truly, TRULY a God-inspired, bullseye-on-target, answer!!
I question the 'God inspired' part of this line. Elders are not to be covetous, true but in all seriousness here, I have never met an elder who has turned down a paycheck offer or an offer to be positioned above others. The flesh is way to weak here.
Again I submit the question, where in the N.T. can the single pastor concept with a salary be found? Someone said that I can believe what I want but.....
I thought we all wanted to believe what the word says and kick out what it does not say. This is not about preference belief systems, it is about whether or not we are following the clear warnings and dictates of the N.T.. I say we have strayed away from clear teachings on this issue about 1700 years ago and have never recovered from the fall.
Greco/Roman impurities seeped into the mindset of the brethren early on, even as Paul warned in my paraphrase 'I fear this whole deal is going to fall apart before the last shovelfull of dirt hits my face'. Well he was right.The apostles all died and by the start of the second century one named Ignatius of Antioch started promoting himself above the rest of the flock in the meeting he was part of re-visiting the sin John denounced in 3rd.John concerning Diotrephes 'desiring the preeminance', or 2 class system with him as the chief pastor/elder. The deeds of the Nicolaitans that Christ hated was the 2 class enigma that generates the 'mediator by man' construct that we have today. Martin Luther broke from the Roman system only to carry this construct with him into the reformation.
Please reread 1Cor.12 and you'll find no 2 class system of single elder construct. Paul always wrote his letters to the 'body' as a whole and one time to the elders, a plurality of shepherds. Elders, bishops, episcopals, teachers, pastors all being synonymous.
Another thought is the command to all of us and our ministries is this. 'Freely you have recieved, freely give.' I've never heard this one preached or taught on either.
In these last days God wants to restore what is near and dear to His heart....a body with All it's parts functioning as He directs...in the gathering. He wants to be Head of His ekklesia once again. Right now, He cannot with all of our pre packaged religious services and programs. I speak the truth hear and those who have ears will bear witness in their spirit. In compassion for His people, God wants to bless. devon and kathy
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RE: Salary? - 11/20/2008 11:22:03 AM
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zoebob
Posts: 7962
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quote:
Elders are not to be covetous, true but in all seriousness here, I have never met an elder who has turned down a paycheck offer or an offer to be positioned above others. The flesh is way to weak here.
I think in my church the elders do not seek to be positioned over others. In fact, one of our is taking a year break from serving as an elder and we instituted a policy where after a certain amount of time the elders are encouraged to take a year off from their duties. They are not required but allowed. Being an elder is a difficult "job" and requires study and interviews to become one.
I do not see anything in scripture that prohibits a group of people from coming together and deciding they want to pay a person or group of people to dedicate their time to serving them full time. In fact, I would say that Paul's preference that leaders not have families to distract them from service would be an indicator that full time service to the church (thus requiring outside support) is an acceptable thing.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Salary? - 11/20/2008 11:25:12 AM
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Conundrum
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Please provide scriptures that explicitly say that no one in ministry should be paid. Please show us those "clear warnings" about paying clergy.
Please explain how accepting a salary equates to coveting, with Scripture.
quote:
The deeds of the Nicolaitans that Christ hated was the 2 class enigma that generates the 'mediator by man' construct that we have today.
I do not see any "mediator by man" construct in the Protestant church. Please provide examples/proof.
quote:
Right now, He cannot with all of our pre packaged religious services and programs.
Are you saying God is not all-powerful and sovereign? He cannot use programs??
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RE: Salary? - 11/20/2008 11:27:31 AM
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zoebob
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Just thinking about this a little more you could compare it to how this community is run. Much of the work keeping things safe and running smoothly is done by volunteers (ie. elders so to speak). We don't do it to lord it over the others or to grow our own egos. We do it because we enjoy serving others that use this board and enjoy keeping this community a good place. We have commited to serve this community. However, we are not available 24-7.
Other's, like Fritz, are paid (ie our "pastor" for this analogy). We need someone who is dedicated to this and that's all they do. Even so he's not online 24-7 but is able to dedicate a much larger portion of his time to keeping things running smoothly. "We" choose to pay him to be able to dedicate his time here as opposed to being an all volunteer run community. Even so, there are occasionally people who think he's not available enough.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Salary? - 11/20/2008 12:51:22 PM
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kernsfamily
Posts: 797
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quote:
Just thinking about this a little more you could compare it to how this community is run. Much of the work keeping things safe and running smoothly is done by volunteers (ie. elders so to speak). We don't do it to lord it over the others or to grow our own egos. We do it because we enjoy serving others that use this board and enjoy keeping this community a good place. We have commited to serve this community. However, we are not available 24-7.
The same thing can be said about "community servants" such as Police Officers, Firemen and other such positions. Those people spend so much time serving the community, that it does become their "full time" job....and, a grateful community pays them what it can to perform those necessary tasks. Some communities are so small, that they can get by with a volunteer force....others, like mine here in an urban area, relies on a paid, professional crew.
Our church has well over 200 paid "staff" positions....from Sr. Pastor, other Pastors....on down to the army of "ministers" (Minister of Women, children's/nursery ministry, music/worship minister and staff, etc..etc...). And, then to positions such as librarian, communications department (design/creation of all communications materials & website, for instance)....those whose job it is to work in Church Facilities and Maintenance....and, more....
Beyond those....we do have an army of "Deacons", which serve the church body as "volunteers".....as well as countless other volunteers (parents helping in children's choir for this weekend's "Church Christmas Tree Lighting Program", to volunteers teaching and assisting in the nursery and preschool ministry, greeters and ushers, etc..etc...
I see nothing wrong with paying appropriately.....as long as staff salary does NOT hinder the overall ministry and outreach of the church....
_____________________________
Proud dad of 3 great girls....Blessed to have all of them in a "totally awesome" public elementary school!
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RE: Salary? - 11/20/2008 1:01:30 PM
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Kat_D
Posts: 1398
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quote:
He wants to be Head of His ekklesia once again. Right now, He cannot with all of our pre packaged religious services and programs.
Please provide scriptural support for your view that God is somehow limited by what mere mortals do or don't do.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Salary? - 11/20/2008 4:06:56 PM
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rolling
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'Quench not the spirit' is one and enough to let us know that we can tie His hands by our own forms and traditions.
It's not by burden to prove any of this. It is yours to prove that a single pastor with salary can be validated by scripture. I'm saying it is not in there. Not trying to be mean. Just trying to follow the pattern outlined a little closer. As the Bereans 'searched the scriptures to see if these things be so.'
I remember an evangelist years ago saying 'isn't God blessing here tonight. What would it be like if we ever got this thing straight.'
His hands are tied. We seem to think we have to call the shots and set everything in order.
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RE: Salary? - 11/20/2008 4:47:03 PM
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Kat_D
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rolling
'Quench not the spirit' is one and enough to let us know that we can tie His hands by our own forms and traditions.
It's not by burden to prove any of this. It is yours to prove that a single pastor with salary can be validated by scripture. I'm saying it is not in there. Not trying to be mean. Just trying to follow the pattern outlined a little closer. As the Bereans 'searched the scriptures to see if these things be so.'
I remember an evangelist years ago saying 'isn't God blessing here tonight. What would it be like if we ever got this thing straight.'
His hands are tied. We seem to think we have to call the shots and set everything in order.
Um, you need to do a little further study on "quench not the holy Spirit" Scripture because you're way off on that one.
Either God is Omnipotent or He's not.
It is your burden to prove that we in the ministry shouldn't make a salary...you made the point in your OP. Oh, and btw, you haven't proven it yet, but don't let that stop you from digging a little deeper.
_____________________________
~Kat
"...And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes...no more death, sorrow, nor crying."
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RE: Salary? - 11/20/2008 4:47:48 PM
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zoebob
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THere are lots of things we do that are not expressly ordered in scripture. I think a more accurate way of doing things is to see if the principle is prohibited or encouraged.
_____________________________
L-R: DD1, Ellies DS2, DD2, Ellies DS1
L-R: Ellies DD1, Ellies DD2, DS, Ellies DS3
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RE: Salary? - 11/20/2008 5:05:05 PM
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rcjames
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From: Oklahoma
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rolling
His hands are tied. We seem to think we have to call the shots and set everything in order.
Speak for yourself rolling, you seem to be the one trying to set things in order at least in the way you see it.
Do you recognize Elders, Bishops, Deacons as leadership in the Curch?
Do you consider Elders worthy of double honor? as in;
(1Ti 5:17) Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
(1Ti 5:18) For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
Do you not see the admonition for reward for the leadership?
So you think we should be obedient to those who have the rule over us? as in
(Heb 13:7) Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
It seems to me that your idea of we are all on the same level as far as Church leadership etc. is just not Scrip;tural. Jesus appoints and gives as gifts to the Church;
(Eph 4:10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
(Eph 4:11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
(Eph 4:12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
(Eph 4:13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
The idea of taking care of the leadership of the Church goes back to the very beginnings of the Church in Acts;
(Act 6:2) Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
(Act 6:3) Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
The leadership was not to serve tables, but to study the Word; that has not changed.
Rolling, you do make a good p;oint about theri being more than one elder in a local Church, and most of the ones I have had any dealings with over the past 45 years I have been in the ministry always have a number of folks in leadership.
I will give you that there are a few lone ranger groups out there, but they are the rariety and not a common occurance. For that I am greatly thankful.
Thsnks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Salary? - 11/20/2008 11:43:09 PM
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bolt.
Posts: 1759
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From: Canada
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quote:
Duck Tail said: Truly, TRULY a God-inspired, bullseye-on-target, answer!! I question the 'God inspired' part of this line. First, let me admit up front that I do not consider anything I post to be 'inspired' -- maybe prompted in some cases, but not 'inspired'.
quote:
Elders are not to be covetous, true but in all seriousness here, I have never met an elder who has turned down a paycheck offer or an offer to be positioned above others. The flesh is way to weak here. Nobody who really thinks that the Church would benefit from them spending less time working and more time ministering should turn down pay for that purpose.
On the other hand, anybody who wants money for “ministry” because they think it is less work than their other possible income is an idiot, and the Church community that offered that person any such thing should have their judgement seriously overhauled. And the Church that thinks a “minister” is a position above others really needs some basic NT education.
If this is really the way things are at your Church, then I agree with your assessment – the flesh is in charge and that 'gathering' is going down.
quote:
Again I submit the question, where in the N.T. can the single pastor concept with a salary be found? It can’t, but I don’t think it matters that it can’t.
quote:
I thought we all wanted to believe what the word says and kick out what it does not say. Count me out of your “all” – my life and my Church contains many things that are “not said” in the Word. I just hope it doesn’t contain anything forbidden.
quote:
whether or not we are following the clear warnings and dictates of the N.T.. I say we have strayed away from clear teachings on this issue about 1700 years ago and have never recovered from the fall. Who warned against compensating pastors? Where is it dictated that the NT model should be followed for all time? I only see it described as a workable model for that time. It may well be a workable model for our time too, but there is no indication that other models are forbidden.
quote:
as Paul warned in my paraphrase 'I fear this whole deal is going to fall apart before the last shovelfull of dirt hits my face'. Which verse(s) are you paraphrasing here?
Continuing, regarding Ignatius et.al.
I wonder if you can see the arrogance in your post, presuming to know what any person 1900 years dead ‘desired’ or what their personal sins were. I agree that leaders have often sought or been caught in this structure of pre-eminence, but many pastors, teachers and elders avoid it. There is no reason that a 1-pastor position structure can not be done well, just because at other times it has gone poorly. There is also no reason that a plurality of leadership model is not workable – in fact I think of it as a better model… but an accusation of sin for all those in paid key teaching positions… that’s absurd.
quote:
Another thought is the command to all of us and our ministries is this. 'Freely you have recieved, freely give.' I've never heard this one preached or taught on either. Really?
Really. You must be in a problem Church. This is a pretty common NT passage and pastors should be teaching on it. Especially as you appear to misunderstand it. This is about spreading the Gospel of God’s grace freely and without restraint or demands from those receiving the Word. It does not at all imply that a group of Christians may not freely choose to give of their own income so that a gifted and called person can spend more of their time doing those things of their calling.
Continuing regarding what God wants "in these last days"
Again with the arrogance. How is it that you know what God wants if He has not put it in His word that he wants it? I know this model is described in the Word, you’d think it would be easy enough for Him to say, “And you should all do things exactly like this forever” if that was what He meant.
Your implication that God is not currently the head of his Church is completely contrary to Scripture (which says that He is, not that he wants to be, and certainly not that he can not) I just don't know what to say except... that’s downright offensive. For somebody who knows so little of the solid written revelation of God, I’m not inclined to believe that you have the kind of extra revelation that you are claiming. (Which means you might be a false prophet? It might be safer for you to watch what you claim in His name.)
(Disclaimer: I don't mean to imply the OP is not a Christian, only that he is misguided.)
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RE: Salary? - 11/21/2008 11:35:27 AM
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rolling
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I see i am not getting anywhere. Pay the professional, sit and be entertained. I have pointed out the scriptures contrary to this. I have done my part. But for those who feel a need for further study, check out Frank Viola's books 'Rethinking the Wineskin,' 'Pagan Christianity', and Reimagining Church'.
He was an assemblies of God pastor. He was flying over Montana with the state overseer looking for a town and church to pastor. God spoke to him to land at a particular town.
He went to the nearest church and walked in on a service. God spoke to him 'I'm going to show you what real ministry is'. The Holy Ghost fell and everyone began to minister one to another.' What a novel idea. The head pastor disappeared in the mish mash. This went on for one month, night after night. What we all call a revival.
Then God spoke to Frank again, 'Now watch what happens'.
The pastor took his position behind the pulpit and began 'This has all been very well and good, [here it comes]...BUT, now it's time to get things back in order.' It is so human to get our 'buts' in the way every time.
Bam!! It was all over . The Holy Spirit unction departed and folks began to weep, ' He's gone, He's gone...it's all over.'
This is exactly what brought the Jesus movement to an end. Kids were getting saved right and left and they were meeting in homes, turning their litlle worlds upside down for Christ.
Then came the 'pastors'. They stepped in and quenched it by telling all these new converts that they needed to start going to a 'real church' and submit themselves to the pastors. The revival came to an end.
When we will ever learn? God is more than able to Head His 'church' without our engineering and interferrence.
God wants an alive organism not an organization. He wants to operate through His people.
I can understand if you never have experience what I'm describing because of all the control and best laid plans for religious services. I have experience the spontaniety of the Spirit. What I am saying is real and it is God's heart concerning His 'body'. I can say no more. For those who have not turned a deaf ear toward me, check out those books. Also, further study of His word on this subject can be found at www.truthforfree.com I like that. It's FREE of CHARGE. devon and kathy and family
< Message edited by rolling -- 11/21/2008 11:42:08 AM >
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RE: Salary? - 11/21/2008 12:09:34 PM
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rolling
Posts: 158
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Whoops!! There it is. I suspected it to be so before I even registered. I knew many christians on this sight have vested interests with a non teachable spirit. By the way. I knew of these issues for about 33 years before I ever heard of Frank Viola.
My suggestion is this. If you do not want to enter in, quit preventing others from doing so. I know. I know. Banishment is next.
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RE: Salary? - 11/21/2008 12:26:47 PM
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bolt.
Posts: 1759
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Canada
Status: online
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rolling,
For someone who claims to think that a plurality of leaders is right and Biblical... you are certainly willing to ignore the wisdom of the variety of leaders here... it seems more like you are wanting to only follow this single teacher... and he does seem to be the kind of teacher that wants to be different and better than others he meets... and he publishes books about his own excellency and impact... and I suppose he has not a lot of time to work at a secular job... I wonder how his bills get paid... I wonder if I can order his publications for free.
I'm also unclear how Kat or anyone would prevent anybody who wanted to 'enter in' to this model of doing Church. Surely it is right for all Christians to speak freely and for each to choose their own adherence or distance from new teachings.
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RE: Salary? - 11/21/2008 1:05:23 PM
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rcjames
Posts: 6728
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rolling
...check out Frank Viola's books 'Rethinking the Wineskin,' 'Pagan Christianity', and Reimagining Church'.
Wow, so Frank Viola gives his books away, I mean if he is promoting that no leader should recieve a salary; how could he charge for writings that he claims God gave him.
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Salary? - 11/21/2008 1:13:20 PM
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rawr.ben
Posts: 2729
Joined: 5/16/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rolling
I see i am not getting anywhere. Pay the professional, sit and be entertained.
This is so silly. Do you think you can do the job of a full time pastor? Surely some of it, yes, but as I once heard from a pastor "I don't get paid for the 90% of the work that other people can do. I get paid for the 10% that only I can do."
And I am sorry you feel like one who sits, handles finances, budgets, insurance, building codes, counsels, performs funerals, marriages, hospital visits, etc does not deserve to get paid for their 60 hours a week they probably put into it so you can sit your butt down on a Sunday morning and listen to a sermon.
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I have pointed out the scriptures contrary to this. I have done my part.
A few prooftexts won't get you far on these forums.
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But for those who feel a need for further study, check out Frank Viola's books 'Rethinking the Wineskin,' 'Pagan Christianity', and Reimagining Church'.
Please. . . I can't afford his book.
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He went to the nearest church and walked in on a service. God spoke to him 'I'm going to show you what real ministry is'.
Thank God he came along to enlighten us out of the fake ministry we have had for 2000 years. Glad to know God delves out these new revelations like this . . .
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Bam!! It was all over . The Holy Spirit unction departed and folks began to weep, ' He's gone, He's gone...it's all over.'
Sounds like something the Holy Spirit would do *rolls eyes*
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When we will ever learn? God is more than able to Head His 'church' without our engineering and interferrence.
God Himself designed the structure. Look at what RC said.
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I can understand if you never have experience what I'm describing because of all the control and best laid plans for religious services. I have experience the spontaniety of the Spirit. What I am saying is real and it is God's heart concerning His 'body'
It would be in error to assume none of us have experienced a move of the Spirit.
That being said, this has nothing to do with salary anymore.
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Also, further study of His word on this subject can be found at www.truthforfree.com I like that. It's FREE of CHARGE. devon and kathy and family
It's funny, though. Those people are still earning a salary. Look at all the advertising taking place on the site.
According to you, they shouldn't be getting paid at all.
. . . or do you just mean, you shouldn't have to pay them?
_____________________________
rawr.ben
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