RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (Full Version)

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iluvatar -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/19/2008 9:21:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O
Apparently the family you know is bar far the exception more than the rule.

You really do need to be almost brain dead ignorant to vote democrat.


Right, and the Republican party was targeting the high-minded intellectual crowd with "Drill Baby Drill," "Godless money," "He pals around with terrorists," and Sarah Palin. [8|]

Sheesh, the amount of self-affirmation that goes on in this forum is staggering.

-Dan.



cow451 -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/19/2008 10:14:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O
Apparently the family you know is bar far the exception more than the rule.

You really do need to be almost brain dead ignorant to vote democrat.


Right, and the Republican party was targeting the high-minded intellectual crowd with "Drill Baby Drill," "Godless money," "He pals around with terrorists," and Sarah Palin. [8|]

Sheesh, the amount of self-affirmation that goes on in this forum is staggering.

-Dan.


Affirmative!



Milliecat -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/19/2008 10:52:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jhud
it would do us all a heap of good to stop whining about how he got to be President

No- please whine, all of you righties. I can't get enough of hearing you calling out Sarah Palin's name like you're crying for your mamas.

quote:

That being said, it is clear the American electorate is as dumb as cows

Bush's re-election convinced me of that four years ago.

quote:

Obama was well within his rights to make a coalition of the unknowing; it would be up to those who want to preserve our form of government to help to make sure such a large coalition doesn't exist next time around.

Perchance "unknowing" isn't code for "non-white," is it?

Did you happen to notice who the Democratic candidates were in 2000 and 2004?

And hey, it wasn't just one race that knew very little about Obama. It was all of them. Didn't you see the video? They knew everything about Palin and nothing about their man.



ManimalX -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/19/2008 10:57:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O
Apparently the family you know is bar far the exception more than the rule.

You really do need to be almost brain dead ignorant to vote democrat.


Right, and the Republican party was targeting the high-minded intellectual crowd with "Drill Baby Drill," "Godless money," "He pals around with terrorists," and Sarah Palin. [8|]

Sheesh, the amount of self-affirmation that goes on in this forum is staggering.

-Dan.


What does that have to do with the price of burritos in Mexico? You are creating a fals dichotomy, Dan, and you know it. "Drill baby drill" has nothing to do with appealing to "high-minded intellectuals", it is just plain sense as non-fossil fuel replacements are nowhere near realization and more oil is needed while it is developed. This is called an "all-of-the-above" option, as opposed to the moronic liberal idea that oil cn be eliminated tomorrow.

Barack Obama DOES pal around with terrorists. Why is the truth anathema to you?

Dan, you try so hard to appear "reasonable" and "rational", and I have appreciated it in the past, but you have really been missing the boat this whole election cycle. Stop trying to ride the fence and join the fight on the side of good, bro!



Milliecat -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/19/2008 11:05:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

quote:

ORIGINAL: catfighter

Don't you folks know a push poll when you see one?

Show us one. This wasn't it.
http://www.zogby.com/news/wf-dfs.pdf


How to lie with statistics: Pick voters for one candidate, ask them partisan questions, then make up a conclusion that the data does not control for.

If one took McCain voters, asked them the same type questions, you would get the same type outcome, I would imagine.

Zogby was commissioned (paid for) by Ziegler. Zogby did not make up the questions, simply asked them. The conclusion is not Zogby's. It's interesting how conservatives rail against the polls until one comes along that they agree with.

The client (Ziegler) is free to draw his own conclusions about the research, as are bloggers and other members of society. But Zogby International is a neutral party in this matter. We were hired to test public opinion on a particular subject and with no ax to grind, that's exactly what we did. We don't have to agree or disagree with the questions, we simply ask them and provide the client with a fair and accurate set of data reflecting public opinion." - John Zogby

Now you may say I'm disputing Ziegler's conclusions. I'm simply saying that Ziegler is using these results to draw a conclusion that is not there. There is no controlling for variables. This poll simply selects certain items that are mostly partisan in nature. it does not address which sources these people use to get or not get this selected information.

While it may comfort some to blame "the media" for the GOP failings, it is smoke screen to avoid addressing the policies and performance of the party and its candidates. It's merely the latest vintage of sour grapes. [sm=crystreams.gif]It will also insure the Dems remain the party in power.

If "the media" elected The Big O, it also elected George Bush I and II, Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon. 'Splain that one.

The media obviously favored Obama, therefore this survey is much more interesting.

The media didn't elect George Bush. The Democrats did by nominating Al Gore and John Kerry. The media tried but they couldn't do much to help. Please don't try to tell me that they preferred George Bush. That is just not true. The same could be said for John McCain this time but the media actually liked John McCain, at least in the past, but they liked Obama more. Ronald Reagan won because the country was tired of a weak President. And I don't kow about Nixon. I was too young to vote so I didn't pay much attention.

Let's be honest. Never in history has the media refused to ask difficult questions of a candidate or ignored and witheld information that might have changed voter's minds like they did this time. This was extreme.



Milliecat -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/19/2008 11:15:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O
Apparently the family you know is bar far the exception more than the rule.

You really do need to be almost brain dead ignorant to vote democrat.


Right, and the Republican party was targeting the high-minded intellectual crowd with "Drill Baby Drill," "Godless money," "He pals around with terrorists," and Sarah Palin. [8|]

Sheesh, the amount of self-affirmation that goes on in this forum is staggering.

-Dan.



I guess you intellectuals know better than us little people but everyone needs energy, you know.

The truth is he chooses to have friendships with terrorists, Communists and America haters,but she couldn't say that.

Sarah Palin was the most honest of all the candidates and the most morally grounded. But I know, she wasn't an "intellectual".



iluvatar -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 9:07:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ManimalX

quote:

ORIGINAL: iluvatar

quote:

ORIGINAL: John_O
Apparently the family you know is bar far the exception more than the rule.

You really do need to be almost brain dead ignorant to vote democrat.


Right, and the Republican party was targeting the high-minded intellectual crowd with "Drill Baby Drill," "Godless money," "He pals around with terrorists," and Sarah Palin. [8|]

Sheesh, the amount of self-affirmation that goes on in this forum is staggering.

-Dan.


What does that have to do with the price of burritos in Mexico?


John_O said, "You really do need to be almost brain dead ignorant to vote democrat." I was countering that with examples of Republican rhetoric aimed straight at short-sighted populism.

quote:

You are creating a fals dichotomy, Dan, and you know it. "Drill baby drill" has nothing to do with appealing to "high-minded intellectuals", it is just plain sense as non-fossil fuel replacements are nowhere near realization and more oil is needed while it is developed. This is called an "all-of-the-above" option, as opposed to the moronic liberal idea that oil cn be eliminated tomorrow.


My problem with "Drill Baby Drill" is not with the notion of increased offshore drilling (though I do worry that there are environmental concerns that, if they go wrong, could wipe out any benefit of drilling in the first place), but rather with the continued focus on drilling and fossil fuels as a solution, particularly when used as political rhetoric. Yes, the McCain campaign claimed to support alternative energy policies, but the Republican practice for quite some time has been to focus on fossil fuels and more or less eschew any concerns about the environment or sustainability. And while I believe that most Republicans do want us to be independent of foreign oil sources, drilling here won't do it. Firing up the masses to chant "Drill Baby Drill" directs the public's attention to short-term band-aids, rather than on long-term solutions. Public and political myopia is a big problem in this country and this sort of rhetoric about offshore drilling does nothing but make it worse.

quote:

Barack Obama DOES pal around with terrorists. Why is the truth anathema to you?


I believe his relationship with Bill Ayers is inconsequential, does not mean that Obama espouses any of his views, and I think that the focus placed on it is silly and ultimately, hypocritical for the Republicans. Past administrations have gotten cozy with MANY world leaders who were evil, but in some way advantageous to us.

quote:


Dan, you try so hard to appear "reasonable" and "rational", and I have appreciated it in the past, but you have really been missing the boat this whole election cycle. Stop trying to ride the fence and join the fight on the side of good, bro!


I'm not riding the fence. I'm calling BS on many of the things those on my side of the fence are shouting about. I hate lies, fear-mongering, and half-truths coming from anywhere, but especially when they're coming from groups that I associate with.

-Dan.



cow451 -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 9:59:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milliecat

The media didn't elect George Bush. The Democrats did by nominating Al Gore and John Kerry. The media tried but they couldn't do much to help. Please don't try to tell me that they preferred George Bush. That is just not true. The same could be said for John McCain this time but the media actually liked John McCain, at least in the past, but they liked Obama more. Ronald Reagan won because the country was tired of a weak President. And I don't kow about Nixon. I was too young to vote so I didn't pay much attention.

Let's be honest. Never in history has the media refused to ask difficult questions of a candidate or ignored and witheld information that might have changed voter's minds like they did this time. This was extreme.


You can't have it both ways. If 'the media" is so powerful, then they should be getting their way consistently. The bias you refer to (and there is real data to support that) has existed at least back to the Nixon era.

The major networks and newspapers have less influence now. Newspaper readership has plummeted, the major networks have a smaller percentage of viewership thanks to cable/satellite TV. Conservative media has grown, with FOXNews now one of the major networks. Talk radio is heavily dominated by the conservatives. The internet allows every viewpoint imaginable to be aired.

All the candidates play "the media" (or try to). It's hard to ask the candidates tough questions because it is so much easier to avoid the tough interview. And the debates (which are joint ventures of the two major parties) are mostly rotating stump speeches.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 10:33:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milliecat
Did you happen to notice who the Democratic candidates were in 2000 and 2004?

What does this have to do with anything?

quote:

And hey, it wasn't just one race that knew very little about Obama. It was all of them.

Who are "all of them?"



stamper_ben -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 11:28:47 AM)

quote:

Who are "all of them?"
I know it might be hard to think in these terms, but try black, brown, white, Asian and native American. You could add Pacific Islanders in there too.



Lapidoth -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 11:38:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stamper_ben

quote:

Who are "all of them?"
I know it might be hard to think in these terms, but try black, brown, white, Asian and native American. You could add Pacific Islanders in there too.


LOL.............

This is one time it means what it means...........

"ALL" of them. ALL. Name any group that knows anything about Obama.
Now the media admits they know nothing about Obama. But he was their candidate.

This is just too too. LOL.



Milliecat -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 12:12:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milliecat
Did you happen to notice who the Democratic candidates were in 2000 and 2004?

What does this have to do with anything?

quote:

And hey, it wasn't just one race that knew very little about Obama. It was all of them.

Who are "all of them?"


You stated something about being convinced of how dumb the electorate was in '04. Did you think anyone really wanted John Kerry to be President?

All of them are white, black, green, purple, all of them. They were all dumb about Obama. But they sure knew how to put down Palin.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 12:16:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Milliecat
You stated something about being convinced of how dumb the electorate was in '04. Did you think anyone really wanted John Kerry to be President?

Yes: about 50% of the country did.

quote:

All of them are white, black, green, purple, all of them. They were all dumb about Obama.

I wasn't. Of course, I am not any of the above-mentioned colors, either.

quote:

But they sure knew how to put down Palin.

Who doesn't?



P31W -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 12:16:50 PM)

One of our Pro Obama college professors here wanted to have his students do a debate.

He asked the class how many voted for McCain. Only two voted for him and the rest for Obama.

The professor was extremely upset because none of the Obama supporters could give the class "any reason" why they voted for him.

The McCain voters ended up being debated by the "professor" because the rest of the class didn't know anything to even "ask" the McCain voters.



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 12:19:58 PM)

. . . oooooooh!
This one time, at band camp, these kids all wanted Bush to win, and they all said it was because their daddies were voting for him. But they didn't actually know what they were talking about beyond that . . .

So what?



Lapidoth -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 12:21:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W

One of our Pro Obama college professors here wanted to have his students do a debate.

He asked the class how many voted for McCain. Only two voted for him and the rest for Obama.

The professor was extremely upset because none of the Obama supporters could give the class "any reason" why they voted for him.

The McCain voters ended up being debated by the "professor" because the rest of the class didn't know anything to even "ask" the McCain voters.


Case rested..........................LOL



P31W -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 12:22:20 PM)

We are not talking about children who cannot vote.

These are college folks who "did" vote.

quote:

. . oooooooh!
This one time, at band camp, these kids all wanted Bush to win, and they all said it was because their daddies were voting for him. But they didn't actually know what they were talking about beyond that . . .

So what?



Lapidoth -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 12:22:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

. . . oooooooh!
This one time, at band camp, these kids all wanted Bush to win, and they all said it was because their daddies were voting for him. But they didn't actually know what they were talking about beyond that . . .

So what?


again, case rest.................kids are uninformed.

I voted for Nixon in school. haha.
I didn't have a clue then either.



Lapidoth -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 12:24:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W

We are not talking about children who cannot vote.

These are college folks who "did" vote.


If a man can't run for office until he is 30 years old,
perhaps no one should be able to vote until they are 30 years old.

But, in fact, there is no constitutional "right" to vote for President.
I often wonder why all the hoopla and especially millions spent on
an election that isn't constitutional. Who started that?



1dblthnk02 -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 12:31:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: P31W
We are not talking about children who cannot vote.
These are college folks who "did" vote.

My anecdote wasn't even true. My point, which you obviously missed, was that anecdotes are completely irrelevant.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
again, case rest.................kids are uninformed.

As are you. Case in point:

quote:

there is no constitutional "right" to vote for President.

Yes there is: Amendment 26.

quote:

I often wonder why all the hoopla and especially millions spent on
an election that isn't constitutional.

Uh, Amendment 12 anyone?



Soxfan -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 12:49:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

If a man can't run for office until he is 30 years old,
perhaps no one should be able to vote until they are 30 years old.


Actually people should have to answer a few Civics questions before they can vote.

I was talking to a co-worker just before the election. I asked her to name her 2 US Senators and her Congressman. She knew none of them. But when I asked her the name of Paris Hilton's dog, she knew it instantly!

Unfortunately being a uninformed and apathetic does not disqualify you from voting....Hence Prez-elect Obama



stamper_ben -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 12:55:22 PM)

Paris Hilton has a dog?[&:]

Where've I been?

Even my 7 year old grand daughter knew the reasons to vote for McCain. Bet she could've debated the professor.



cow451 -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 1:29:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

. . . oooooooh!
This one time, at band camp, these kids all wanted Bush to win, and they all said it was because their daddies were voting for him. But they didn't actually know what they were talking about beyond that . . .

So what?


LOL. I have many God-fearing, and some not-so-God-fearing, fellow McCain voting acquaintences that voted for McCain because they didn't want to "vote for a Muslim and Obama is a Muslim no matter what anybody says." They, too, could not give one coherent policy reason for their choice.

Most people vote on emotion, period.



stamper_ben -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 2:24:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cow451

quote:

ORIGINAL: 1dblthnk02

. . . oooooooh!
This one time, at band camp, these kids all wanted Bush to win, and they all said it was because their daddies were voting for him. But they didn't actually know what they were talking about beyond that . . .

So what?


LOL. I have many God-fearing, and some not-so-God-fearing, fellow McCain voting acquaintences that voted for McCain because they didn't want to "vote for a Muslim and Obama is a Muslim no matter what anybody says." They, too, could not give one coherent policy reason for their choice.

Most people vote on emotion, period.

I'm trying to raise a generation that will vote on reason instead. That will be my hope for the future of this country.



LabGuy -> RE: Media Malpractice: How Obama Got Elected (11/20/2008 2:51:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soxfan

Actually people should have to answer a few Civics questions before they can vote.


That would be wonderful, but the potential for abuse is too great. (Similar things have been used in the past to unfairly disenfranchise select groups of people.) But if it could be fairly applied...

Other good ideas: raise the voting age to 21 except for military service personnel. (I work with college students on a daily basis - most of them haven't got a clue about life; I certainly didn't at that age.) Or limit voting to taxpayers (no representation without taxation? - you don't contribute, you don't get to say how it's spent).

-Robb



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