Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (Full Version)

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mariadreamer -> Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/8/2008 3:10:03 PM)

I am interested in reading about your experience of going to a Bible school or seminary to study the Bible/theology. I heard many complain about it and warn that it can ruin one's faith. I know that most quit. This is my second year studying theology in a formal setting and my husband attends seminary, and I would like to see other ministry leaders' perspectives on this. How has this affected your faith, your understanding of God and your specific beliefs?



floydette -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/8/2008 3:39:26 PM)

Hi Maria,

I am just beginning my fourth year of seminary. (second career) I understand your concern. I can only speak as one experience, at one seminary.

People go to seminary for various reasons. Some go with an open mind and some attend to have their pre-seminary theology rubber stamped by someone. Sometimes people go to seminaries that fit where they are theologically and some go to sems where they find theologies that are different. Some go at a young age, some as a second career. Each of these scenarios can offer something completely different for each student.

Personally, I have had my world rocked on numerous occasions over the last three years. I had my theo-world rocked on many occasions before sem, but during sem it was at a much deeper level. My hope is that each student experiences this - because while it is tough, it is ultimately a good thing. Some professors understand how to hold the student's questions, and honor the process. Some do not. No doubt this can be said about entire institutions as well. I have been fortunate. I have many professors who understand the process and are there to walk with me as I discover where I land on certain things. (whether I ultimately believe the same as they do is not dependant on the assistance received)

This has been a great experience, albeit it tough.

It concerns me that you have found that most people quit. To me, as an educator, that says more about the institution than it does the person.

I look forward to hearing other stories.



gcsmithjr -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/8/2008 4:56:54 PM)

quote:

I heard many complain about it and warn that it can ruin one's faith. I know that most quit.


In my experience it certainly didn't ruin my faith, and through the course of my seminary training only a very small number of students quit (but both of the seminaries I went to were interdenominational and were pretty expensive, so people had to really want to be there in the first place).

quote:

How has this affected your faith, your understanding of God and your specific beliefs?


Overall my faith and knowledge were both strengthened by seminary. Lots of my beliefs were challenged, in a good way. It wasn't enough for me to say I believed something, I had to be able to back it up with a consistent defense from scripture. I had to learn to read the OT and NT in the original language and really understand the context of the culture, and I had to really think about Theology.

In addition to being a great opportunity to learn, it really broadened my horizons. They were both interdenominational seminaries, so we studied under professors from several denominations with students from other denominations. In some cases my position on certain theological issues changed through that interaction, in some cases I realized that there were multiple equally valid views and stuck with what I believed, but my overall respect for people with different viewpoints and the thinking behind them grew.

The academic work was incredibly difficult at times but the experience was incredible.



mariadreamer -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/8/2008 11:49:44 PM)

Thank you so much for such insightful replies. The reason I raised this is because when people heard I was enrolling to study theology, they tried to discourage me by saying that it will ruin my faith and that most will quit. Actually the quitting I find to be true, not just in our school but in many schools. (I am at St. Stephen's course. Good point about the cost, in our program the cost is extremely low and it's nearly all distance-learning so I guess most people do not have to have a lot of motivation.) Our own experience has been wonderful. It challenged a lot of things for me that I hadn't thought of before but had to face, but the challenge was to my benefit. I see what a sinner I am and how there is no hope apart from Christ. I see that what I think I know I really don't know and it's a very serious thing to try to learn about God Who "dwells in unapproachable light". I must admit the temptation is always there to study with the mind and not with the heart, but I need to constantly strive to put prayer first. I have had so many Aha moments especially when seeing how the Old Testament speaks of Christ on every page and how He fulfills everything. But the best experience is probably when the students came together to worship twice a day; I had many moments during the Vespers when I felt like the whole Church was there - heaven and earth - with one voice.



RJR_fan -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/13/2008 9:55:39 AM)

quote:

The reason I raised this is because when people heard I was enrolling to study theology, they tried to discourage me by saying that it will ruin my faith and that most will quit.


American pietism has an ugly anti-intellectual underside. Billy Sunday, for example, bragged of his ignorance: "I don't know any more about theology than a jackrabbit knows about ping-pong." He also led the fool's errand of compelling his neighbor by force of law to be holier than Jesus. Nearly a century later, our public credibility still hasn't recovered from that triumph of ignorant zeal.

C. S. Lewis wrote in The Abolition of Man about "Men without chests." (If their heads look oversized, it's only because their chests have atrophied.)

To answer your question, though, I did have a few formal classes in theology, the most important of which was New Testament Greek. However, Reformations rarely start with established universities. The "early adopters" tend to be autodidacts, who read everything they can get their hands on by the pioneers of the new perspective, then work on forging ahead in their own fields, applying the new insights. I encountered "Calvinism on steroids" in 1980, and am only now seeking to integrate this worldview into a dissertation. My "beloved mentors" were writers, especially Rousas John Rushdoony, the ArmEnian Calvinist, son of a pulpit dynasty stretching back to the 5th century AD, and Gary North, his pugnacious son-in-law.



-Justyna- -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/19/2008 2:09:35 PM)

Well I dont know if I qualify to answer this question or not, but here goes nothing. I am a current student of business that WANTS to switch to THEOLOGY. I dont actually attend THEOLOGY COURSES JUST YET. I have been busy researching schools, doing some comparisons and making a lot of calls. I will say that I feel led to do this by God but He did give me a warning. Just a few days ago as I was doing some more research He told me not to go about this alone because I WAS GOING TO LEARN THE RIGHT THINGS THE WRONG WAY. I thought that was strange but I think I understand what He is saying. I am to go to THEOLOGY SCHOOL WITH HIM, and have Him as the TEACHER. If we go about this any other way, its wrong and we can ruin our faith and other things as well.

I do have a friend that went to seminary school and she was telling me that this happened to her. I dont understand because this was a gal that walked closely with the Lord but yet for whatever reason she wished she never went. She said she began to doubt a lot of things and that her relationship with Christ suffered. I am really starting to take His warning to me seriously because this was a woman of GOd who had a personal relationship with God. I dont want to end up like this. I dont know if I added anything to this dicussion of value...but I sure tried =)



floydette -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/19/2008 2:19:22 PM)

all.consuming,

Part of taking classes, whether they are theology or the classes that go along with theo as balance, requires one to take a look at one's own belief systems. If you want the relationship you have now, and are not willing for the relationship with God, and what you believe about God to change, then don't go. If God is inviting you to more, and you are willing to give up what you have (which may be good), then go. I don't know what happened to your friend. I do know that many of my friends have been concerned about my faith over the last years. However, it has ended up that they are actually concerned about their faith, because when we talk, they realize that my faith has changed - which calls theirs in question (this is how they feel).

While you are looking for a school, I would suggest that you look for one that gives you tools to negociate the waters of your own faith (vs one that will tell you how to believe). I would also suggest that you take a look at schools that offer balance (inc. formation classes). Balance will help you immensely. Finally, I would offer a suggestion to look at school where the professors can hold your questions in an honorable and respectful manner. That has been tremendously important in my own sem journey. blessings,
f



jn1010lf -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/19/2008 2:45:09 PM)

Hello mariadreamer

I think it depends on what kind of seminary one attends. Some are white washed liberals while others teach real faith. Credentials are useful but the anointing of God on a person is of utmost importance. Knowledge without anointing produces a walking encyclopedia but deadness. Anointing without knowledge can be dangerous and lead to orbital spirituality that can lead to cultism.

So, the best idea is to have a balance between the two.



TMeeks -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/22/2008 11:49:44 PM)

One of the good things about Bible College or Seminary is that it can weed out those that THINK they have a calling when, in fact, it is just an emotional, short-term want. Nothing, not even a bad experience, can really ruin one's faith if that faith is soundly rooted in the first place.

When I was in Bible College, it was during the height of the Vietnam War and a lot of students seemed to be there for that nice 4-D draft classification that a Bible College education provided. Others were the type that were all charged up all the time in the 'Fighting Fundy' mode. So, the range of reasons and responses was pretty wide among the student body. Most on the fringe at either extreme made it through to graduation.

But, we recently had our 40th reunion and to a person it was obvious that those years in Bible College were HUGE in terms of the totality of our lives, whether we were in full time ministry or not. It gave us the foundation of how to study the Scriptures for ourselves that played out differently in every life. It was amazing to hear from each graduate how God had used their Bible College experience in their lives over and over again. In times of instability, the discipline that the Bible College brought to the study of the Word of God, brought stability.

None of us would trade that for the world.


quote:

ORIGINAL: mariadreamer

I am interested in reading about your experience of going to a Bible school or seminary to study the Bible/theology. I heard many complain about it and warn that it can ruin one's faith. I know that most quit. This is my second year studying theology in a formal setting and my husband attends seminary, and I would like to see other ministry leaders' perspectives on this. How has this affected your faith, your understanding of God and your specific beliefs?



greatdivide46 -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/23/2008 8:03:05 AM)

I'm one of those who quit Bible College training in my 20's. I didn't quit because my faith was ruined, but simply because it didn't feel right at the time for me to be there. When I reached by 40's I returned to Bible College (albeit a different one), and finished my undergraduate studies in theology. The college I quit was one associated with the churches that I attended at the time, whereas the one I finished at was an interdenominational Bible college. And while I didn't agree with some of the things taught at the college I received my degree from, it didn't ruin my faith. Of couse, I guess, by my forties I was pretty well set in my theological thinking.



floydette -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/23/2008 8:25:59 AM)

Great,

So, being in your forties, and being set in your theo-thinking, did you experience a change in the way you thought about things during your undergrad? In other words, it sounds like your faith didn't change while you were in school. Did I read that correctly?



RJR_fan -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/24/2008 1:38:27 AM)

When my decade of intense self-education began, I was 30. Transforming an adult personality is like turning an aircraft carrier -- it can happen, but it takes time. The Copernican revolution in my thinking began with a new eschatology -- actually, new to me, but as old as Abraham. One's doctrine of God's goals for "life, the universe, and everything" is central to one's self-concept, one's understanding of vocation, one's expectations of self and God.

By the end of that decade, I had an MS in a "secular" subject area -- but my thesis expressed my new theological perspective, and made a real contribution to God's move at that time, a quiet reformation that is, under the radar, completely changing the rules of the game.



randy36 -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (12/30/2008 12:25:03 PM)

HEllo

I guess I should chide in... most believe that in order to go to Seminary that you have a 4 year Bible college degree (like me) but that is not the case... you can have a Bachelors in Under Water Basket Weaving and go to a Seminary some where... that is what the confusion is... I know of people that have business degrees and then go to seminary for 13 classes and then BAM!!! they are a seminary grad and are looked at higher than a Bible School Grad,,,LOL... the ignorance of man is astounding... (look at what has been elected...lol)... it has taken a very long time for me to finish my Bachelors and I am near completion (2 classes) of my first Masters. (Theology) Then I will transfer into Liberty for a few more degrees... but I can say in all honesty that I have the "credentials" that I need to serve where I need and that a Seminary Degree is simply a bonus... My Bible education is in its 19th year... (Pastor for working on 17) but I will never quit School more than likely, it gives the LORD more "bullets for my Gun..." Love in Jesus... Randy



OldJoe -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (1/9/2009 12:23:51 PM)

The Bible covers this element the best at Isaiah 2 vs 22

"Stop trusting in man, who has but a breath in his nostrils . . .". Trust in God.

The Holy Spirit is the best teacher and will teach you through prayer and the word of God. One Professor commented that he will be shocked if there are theologians in Heaven.

He used an example from a conference where a believer quoted the Bible on a subject at hand. The moderator told the believer, (and I am not quoting direct,) "You are not a master of the Greek or Hebrew, you are not a theologian, you therefore have no right to tell us what the Bible says." Then then went ahead and accepted a change which was totally contrary to Christian beliefs.

My best learning came from God when dealing with situations; my daughter lost her walk with God and has become a Christian who believes all is okay when you look past the "stuff". She refuses to use the word sin to describe elements. She now believes that followers of Islam will probably be in heaven although they have rejected Jesus; she believes profanity and pornography are acceptable if done for entertainment as it is then artistic freedom. This she learned at Bible college.

This is already wordy but I want to add one element of the Holy Spirit teaching: Witnessing to a Buddhist, I gave him the Gospel of John to read. He gave it back a few days later and said he never had felt so much evil in his life. (As Christians we recognize the evil as being that of the great deceiver and that the evil was not the word of God). He was 46 and healthy. He died two days after returning the booklet to me. The Holy Spirit taught me how far the Devil will go to keep people from turning to Jesus. You will not learn this in a theology class.


God bless you in your endeavors

Old Joe - - - long retired



rcjames -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (1/9/2009 12:33:56 PM)

As a younger man I attended and recieved a degree from a well know reformed seminary; it was the worst experience of my life. The school was filled with crusty old professors setting in cobwebbed filled offices; who would not recognize the Spirit of God if He came into thier offices and sat down across the desk from them.

A few years later in life, I pursued and recieved an advanced degree from a wonderful Seminary that was vibrant and taught the Scriptures in very applicaple ways. That experience was a great benefit to me in my life's ministry.

So I guess the "Experience" really depends on the School, and where we, as individuals, are at in our Christian growth.

Thanks
RC



floydette -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (1/9/2009 1:59:55 PM)

Very good point RC.



bishop36274 -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (1/10/2009 10:53:32 AM)

My experience has been wonderful and I now oversee a minsitry which has it's own Bible College and Seminary. www.gbcs.us



Prophetictime -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (1/11/2009 7:56:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mariadreamer

I am interested in reading about your experience of going to a Bible school or seminary to study the Bible/theology. I heard many complain about it and warn that it can ruin one's faith. I know that most quit. This is my second year studying theology in a formal setting and my husband attends seminary, and I would like to see other ministry leaders' perspectives on this. How has this affected your faith, your understanding of God and your specific beliefs?


Doing both I still found it rather dry. I learned so much about history, Jesus' genealogy and early Church Fathers but I noticed I had begun to become out of touch with the reality of today. I learned a great deal in all manner of things until the Holy Spirit of Jesus asked me something very simple while looking at a master's degree program at a particular Bible school. These were my choices below when this event occurred.

Master of Divinity
Master of Ministry
Master of Religious Education
Master of Theology

The questions that was impressed upon me were as such.

Who is the Master? Who is the teacher? Who is my source?

Then it came to mind call no man master and you will have no need for any man to teach you, for the Holy Spirit will teach you.

Now on the surface that may seem very simple but it is not, if your not walking in the fullness of the tangible Holy Spirit you will always lean towards men to teach you or your own understanding. This is not a bad thing always and in many cases you will gain a great foundation. But you will never go unto maturity without being refined by the Holy Spirit.



RJR_fan -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (1/12/2009 4:33:57 AM)

quote:

Then it came to mind call no man master and you will have no need for any man to teach you, for the Holy Spirit will teach you.


Yet, if you believe in the Trinity, you have already profited from the labors of others. And if you do not believe in the Trinity, you are a cultist, stranded in a universe of your own, howling deranged madness, trying to re-invent God. There are reasons why people embrace heresies. As that old journalist G. K. Chesterton wrote,

quote:

In former days the heretic was proud of not being a heretic. It was the kingdoms of the world and the police and the judges who were heretics. He was orthodox. He had no pride in having rebelled against them; they had rebelled against him. The armies with their cruel security, the kings with their cold faces, the decorous processes of State, the reasonable processes of law—all these like sheep had gone astray. The man was proud of being orthodox, was proud of being right. If he stood alone in a howling wilderness he was more than a man; he was a church. He was the centre of the universe; it was round him that the stars swung. All the tortures torn out of forgotten hells could not make him admit that he was heretical.


America has an independent spirit, and a knack for manufacturing cults. Most of which begin with folks who decide to let "the Holy Spirit" teach them -- but end up jerry-rigging odds and ends out of their own imaginations into new idols.



greatdivide46 -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (1/12/2009 7:40:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: floydette

Great,

So, being in your forties, and being set in your theo-thinking, did you experience a change in the way you thought about things during your undergrad? In other words, it sounds like your faith didn't change while you were in school. Did I read that correctly?

Yes, you read that correctly.

Sorry for the long delay in responding to your post.



floydette -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (1/12/2009 9:35:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: greatdivide46

quote:

ORIGINAL: floydette

Great,

So, being in your forties, and being set in your theo-thinking, did you experience a change in the way you thought about things during your undergrad? In other words, it sounds like your faith didn't change while you were in school. Did I read that correctly?

Yes, you read that correctly.

Sorry for the long delay in responding to your post.

I certainly understand being busy. No problem. That is probably one reason subscriptions work so well!

Thanks for clarifying. My next question - if that is ok - how do you view the fact that your faith didn't change? I guess, first it would be important to know what you consider "your faith", and secondly, was that a negative experience (now looking back) or one you consider positive? And, why. :)

Thanks!



greatdivide46 -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (1/12/2009 9:59:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: floydette

Thanks for clarifying. My next question - if that is ok - how do you view the fact that your faith didn't change? I guess, first it would be important to know what you consider "your faith", and secondly, was that a negative experience (now looking back) or one you consider positive? And, why. :)

Maybe instead of faith, I should have said doctrinal beliefs. The college I graduated from didn't teach some of the doctrines that I believe. I don't necessarily see that as a negative experience. Learning from those who don't necessarily agree with what I think only strengthened my beliefs. Overall I consider my college experience a positive one and I'm still in good standing with the school.

However, the church that I was ordained in often looked askance at me because I didn't graduate from one of our own Bible Colleges. But I've never had a problem with it really.



floydette -> RE: Your experience in formal study of the Bible/theology (1/12/2009 11:08:15 AM)

Thanks for clarifying. I appreciate it.



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