RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (Full Version)

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-Justyna- -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (12/19/2008 3:17:00 PM)

I agree with Cloak that we first need to let God love us unconditionally. When this happens, we have something to work with. He gives us love unconditionally and we inturn love ourselves and love others. Its all from Him...the love that is. Its all interrelated too.



Irreparable -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (12/20/2008 1:54:37 AM)

Sure we're told we are loved by God and to love God, others then ourselves. But to a child/adult who isnt loved non judgmentally, really believing in your secret heart of hearts, feeling that you are loved by God, deserve that love, have the right to exist and take up space, have something to give others is incredibly painful.
There are days when Im pretty sure that Im not good enough to be loved by man and days when the fear that Im not good enough for God either breaks my heart.

PS: delete123 there are some who hate their bodies...



stratt -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (12/20/2008 8:18:28 PM)

Personally, I don't think anyone hates there own body.

Here are my thoughts....

#1 It states in the bible....

For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: Ephesians 5:29

I am not super interested in finding flaws in Gods word.... so i look for proof instead of dismissal.

#2

I can see where.... if i smoke.... i smoke because i love my bodily cravings more than i love stopping... so i love my body more than God and more than quitting. But if i stop smoking its good for my health... so i could also quite smoking out of love for my body. Does that make sense in a sick a twisted sin drenched man sort of way? Weather i smoke or not.... its out of love for my body. But i could see where an outsider would see smoking as hating my body and quitting as loving my body... but its not REALLY true... its just an idea i would attribute to Oprah ( I know i will get flak for that statement... but its not the point.)

Also if i Overeat and get fat.... i have done it out of love for my body. But if i Workout and get in shape i have done that for love of my body as well...

So maybe there is a senario out there where you hate you own body... but i cant think of one. Even people who cut themselves.... often do it for attention which would really be out of love for your body.

But none the less... even if there is some abstract way that we could hate our own body... God is the cure!

Also... just a note... i am not a biblical scholar or anything.... but i do realize that the verse i quoted says "flesh" and not "body" usually flesh.... to me ... seems to mean a sinful area of ourselves... however in the context of God loving us as we love our own "flesh" i dont think you could really put in "sin nature" ..... well maybe ... I dont know to much. I am just thinking out loud here.

I would really like to hear your thoughts! So maybe examples of hating your selves that could not be rashonalized away? or Maybe the difference between "body" and "flesh" if there is one?



stratt -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (12/20/2008 8:23:14 PM)

Oh! I just thought of another one! I wear a toque all the time because i love the way i look as opposed to how i look without the toque.... but now i am going bald and i hate the way my baldness makes me look.... but it was out of love for self.... that i wore the toque which made me bald! Ok... maybe that one is a stretch....



evryknee -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (12/22/2008 1:39:54 PM)

I was reading Jn 13 and the washing of the Disciples Feet and saw a few things. "Jesus knew that the time had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he now showed them the full extent of his love.[a]
2The evening meal was being served, and the devil had already prompted Judas Iscariot, son of Simon, to betray Jesus. 3Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that he had come from God and was returning to God; 4so he...." washed his disciples feet.

Jesus knew he had come from God, was returning to God, and have been given power from God. Isn't this the awareness that we are talking about? It isn't self-love, but knowledge and understanding that our self-worth, identity, and purpose is found in God/Christ alone. Jesus was aware of who he was, where he was going, and his power given by God, so he "showed them the fll extent of his love." The love of God for us, accepting and understanding God's love for us, and knowing that we will go to God and answer to Him (fear of the Lord) is then the basis for love. It is the Christ-like humility to accept God's grace and love that spurs on the love for others (the solid foundation), not the love of self (sinking sand).



DaveW -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (12/22/2008 3:30:00 PM)

There is an OT command (according to Yeshua the 2nd greatest) to love your neighbor as yourself. (Matt 22.39, Mk 12.31 quoting Lev 19.18)

However, HE later superseded that with "Love one another as I have loved you." (Joh 13:34)

Do you really want to be loved "...as yourself" by someone who is suicidal?



lynnmoon -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (12/29/2008 10:15:56 AM)

quote:

Do you really want to be loved "...as yourself" by someone who is suicidal?


EXCELLENT POINT!!!!

As hard as it may be for a rational emotionally healthy thinking person to imagine, there are many people who really do hate themselves for various reasons. Sure, it's all due to the sin of someone and the fallenness of man...but it's certainly so.

There are people who sufffer abuse in this world that we can never even fathom, much less discuss with true insight on this forum. Those people are often taught TO hate themselves by those who abuse and misuse them.

Imagine someone whose mother tried to murder them before they were 1 month old, then that same person to suffer sexual abuse from thier father through thier entire childhood, all the while wondering exactly what postive purpose God could possibly have for placing them on this rock.

There are MULTIPLE people that go through such and worse walking around looking pretty normal everyday...but inside they've got no concept of worth or value at all. They don't even understand how God could possibly love them because they've never experienced any kind of love to get the concept at all. Yes, that person needs to learn to accept God's love, but the issue is far too deep to shrug off as them needing to love God. How, if you know nothing of love? It's like telling someone to draw a blue sky if they have NO CLUE what you mean by saying blue and then telling them they are wrong for drawing it yellow.

Likewise, I do know a little about cutting and thus far, I've never run into or learned about people that cut themselves for attention. I can't say that they don't exist, because out of 6 billion people a little some of everything exisits but usually, there are far less painful ways to get attention that "appear" as destructive without being so. People cut themselves sometimes out of hate, but I've found it is more about the fact that that kind of pain distracts them from a worse pain and is comforting because they have some sort of percieved control over it.

BUT AGAIN....all that is way deep and probably far beyond the scope of this thread. But I do know that some people have lived harder lives than we can imagine and some people really do die because they hate themselves and have bought the lie that thier life is worth nothing.



csl7037 -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (12/29/2008 10:37:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lynnmoon

quote:

Do you really want to be loved "...as yourself" by someone who is suicidal?


EXCELLENT POINT!!!!

As hard as it may be for a rational emotionally healthy thinking person to imagine, there are many people who really do hate themselves for various reasons. Sure, it's all due to the sin of someone and the fallenness of man...but it's certainly so.


So I think it boils down to a philosophical/theological question...why do people "hate themselves"? IMO, as a person who has struggled with severe depression and what the world would call self-esteem issues and what deliverance-ministry types would call self-hate, is that it's still rooted in pride. It's the key to the fall of Lucifer, it's what's in our human nature, it's key to the fall of Adam...PRIDE. Loving ourselves is not the cure for pride and the offshoot sins resulting from our sinful/prideful natures...love of God is the cure - it's the exact opposite, it's humility that we need, not self-love, to be able to put our perspective of ourselves in check and to then be able to extend love to others.

I happen to believe very strongly that this worldy notion of self-esteem is just a distraction from the selfless surrender God needs to bring us to before He can work in us and through us. We've got it all backwards.



Elena1030 -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (1/13/2009 12:56:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037

quote:

ORIGINAL: evryknee

OK. Some of these Scriptures assume that we already love ourselves, but does not command that we must love ourselves.


I think you're right.

This is a bit of a pet peeve with me. Frankly, the Bible talks a LOT more about humility than even the vaguest, reaching allusions you can make to loving ourselves or self esteem. Sure, we're to know who we are in Christ but, if we boast, we're to boast in Him.

IMO, to walk around all down on ourselves or with "low self esteem" is all too often nothing more than distorted pride.


{strikeout and bolding, mine}


quote:

ORIGINAL: csl7037
So I think it boils down to a philosophical/theological question...why do people "hate themselves"? IMO, as a person who has struggled with severe depression and what the world would call self-esteem issues and what deliverance-ministry types would call self-hate, is that [b]it's still rooted in pride. It's the key to the fall of Lucifer, it's what's in our human nature, it's key to the fall of Adam...PRIDE. Loving ourselves is not the cure for pride and the offshoot sins resulting from our sinful/prideful natures...l

Love of God is the cure - it's the exact opposite: it's humility that we need, not self-love, to be able to put our perspective of ourselves in check and to then be able to extend love to others.

I happen to believe very strongly that this worldy notion of self-esteem is just a distraction from the selfless surrender God needs to bring us to before He can work in us and through us. We've got it all backwards.


Amen, amen, amen.

Loving others is not first loving ourselves. Loving others first comes by regeneration, then faith, then responding to God in love. Pastor John Piper, of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota, talks about this.

And here are transcripts of two John Piper sermons on the thread’s topic:
Love Your Neighbor as Yourself, Part 1
Love Your Neighbor as Yourself, Part 2


And the very view you describe, csl7037 --- which is TRUTH with a big ol' T! --- is further explicated and explained in Edward T. Welch's book When People Are Big and God Is Small: Overcoming Peer Pressure, Codependency, and the Fear of Man, which I highly recommend... and think that every Christian should read.

(Mr. Welch also has published books on depression, self-injury, dealing with spousal abuse, addiction, motives, desires, ADD, homosexuality, and more. I imagine these also would be good resources, since he has such a strong biblical worldview.)



stellafernandis -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (1/15/2009 12:42:16 AM)

Hi,

I am Stella and I think you are right that first we have to love ourself, because then only we can understand the emotions and then we are able to love someone else. I know god love us unconditionally, but we are human beings and we believe in getting something in exchange.

Ste

Adult Dating



csl7037 -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (1/15/2009 6:41:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: stellafernandis

Hi,

I am Stella and I think you are right that first we have to love ourself, because then only we can understand the emotions and then we are able to love someone else. I know god love us unconditionally, but we are human beings and we believe in getting something in exchange.


Isn't that the exact opposite of what God calls love?



abc06 -> RE: Do you have to love yourself before you can love others? (1/17/2009 4:32:48 PM)

For me the bible says love your neighbour as yourself and that settles it, if you don't love yourself, you can't know how to love others. I think the prayer should be for an understanding of what loving ourself really is. It is not being selfish, it is about accepting yourself as you are, but loving yourself enough not to remain as you are but grow in the Lord. We project what we believe about ourselves to others.

A person who feels dirty will find it difficult treating people with respect in several ways and a person who feels they are not accepted will project this to others. I am experiencing these in two separate relationships and I realised that where I have not dealt with my relationships wisely, it is sometime down to fact that I am critical of myself in those ways.

God bless



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