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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/7/2009 3:15:55 PM
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garsyt
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I have this book. Have had it for several years now. I've been able to take away a few tidbits of information that have really helped in different areas of discipline that we were struggling with.
But like any book on discipline - you take what works for you and leave the rest.
Blessings,
Garsy
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/7/2009 3:35:30 PM
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PrincessDonna
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I also have the book. I think there are methods to be gained in this book, at least there were for our family. I also happen to believe that most any method of discipline, when taken too far or used in anger rather than love, can be abuse, so yes, you need to be careful about that. I am a big fan of logical consequences as a form of discipline, and the book has lots of examples of that kind of thing.
I'm with Garsy...use what works for you and your child and toss the rest.
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/7/2009 3:38:26 PM
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momma_bee
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What are examples of abusive suggestions / attitudes?
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/7/2009 3:42:03 PM
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Sideways
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From what I've read, she recommends spraying water into the face of a toddler having a temper tantrum (are children cats?), or denying food to a child who doesn't do their chores, or saying no to a child who asks to go to the bathroom, just to test how well they obey you.
Haven't read the whole thing, though.
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Row, row, row your boat, gently down the stream. If you see a crocodile, don't forget to scream.
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/7/2009 4:55:17 PM
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manda59
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Maybe someone with the book could check whether these quotes are accurate:
p.138 “As we walk along together shopping, I will suddenly give them silly commands that they must obey without arguing, such as ‘Walk backward,’ or ‘Stop and touch your toes,’ or ‘Give me a kiss.’ Occasionally I’ll throw in a real command, like ‘Don’t touch that,’ or ‘No, you may not have an Icee.’ My favorite curve, however, is to say no to some reasonable request, like ‘May I go to the bathroom?’”
p.203 “Require the two siblings to go ‘toe to toe.’ Have each child face the other with their toes touching; they must remain that way until they’re no longer angry.” “Use a pair of toy handcuffs to join two siblings who can’t seem to get along. It’s really fun to watch them try to eat dinner like this, or read a book, or take the garbage out, tasks I’ll often assign them.” “Hugs, even forced ones, are good at breaking down barriers.” “Make each child stand at opposite ends of the yard. Then have them yell ‘I love you!’ back and forth 20 times.”
p.207 “If they are unable to cooperate with one another, they must play in the backyard, whether it’s 30 degrees or 100 degrees outside.”
p.265 Sample prayer for a child “Dear God, Thank you that my parents love me and that because they love me, they correct me when I sin. Thank you that the spankings drive out the foolishness in my heart.”
_____________________________
"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/7/2009 5:56:41 PM
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garsyt
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All the quotes above are accurate EXCEPT for the the one on page 203.
And again - as often times is done with quoting anything, you have to look at the context of things.
The one where she is talking about obedience on page 138 that all this was done as training and that she would soon follow up the no regarding using the bathroom with permission to go. Demanding obedience and expecting your children to listen and obey and training them to do so REGARDLESS, even if the request is silly like walking backwards or giving mom a kiss, is good training for when you tone of voice changes when you need them to follow a direct command - even tho it may not make sense at the time. It may well save their lives someday.
The quote said to come from page 203 is really a consolidation of several paragraphs on that page. I guess I see nothing abusive in any of the methods she has suggested here. I can see me requiring the "toe to toe" thing with my kids and it all ending up in a bunch of laughter, with all conflict soon being resolved.
page 207 - She went on to mention that after a few minutes outside on days when the temps are very cold or extremely hot that things tend to work themselves out more quickly. Being outside - properly clothed in any weather isn't going to hurt anyone.
Page 265 - the spanking issue always brings differing opinions. Whelchel mentions many times throughout the entire book that spanking doesn't work for every family. She believes that they do for her family and she uses them, but she never says that spanking must be used.
Like I said before there are some things that she suggests doing that I wouldn't use. They just don't fit my way of parenting. I thing Whelchel gets this as she says on page 133 - "As I have illustrated in describing my various friends, we all take different approaches to parenting. Just as there isn't one perfect way to parent, there also isn't one "right" method of correction."
Anyway,
Blessings,
Garsy
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My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/7/2009 6:09:14 PM
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PrincessDonna
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quote:
p.138 “As we walk along together shopping, I will suddenly give them silly commands that they must obey without arguing, such as ‘Walk backward,’ or ‘Stop and touch your toes,’ or ‘Give me a kiss.’ Occasionally I’ll throw in a real command, like ‘Don’t touch that,’ or ‘No, you may not have an Icee.’ My favorite curve, however, is to say no to some reasonable request, like ‘May I go to the bathroom?’”
That quote comes from a part of the book that talks about the importance of teaching obedience, and ALSO having fun while doing it. She is talking about doing this with older children, and I can well imagine the kids getting silly with the questions of what they may do or not do. I have also told my children that they may not go to the bathroom at certain times, when I am sure it is being used as a way of getting out of the "hot seat" or to go goof off instead of doing something that needs to be done. As a parent, I can usually tell when one of mine is really needing to potty and when they are using it as a distraction.
That quote alone is way out of context. I am looking at the book right now.
quote:
p.203 “Require the two siblings to go ‘toe to toe.’ Have each child face the other with their toes touching; they must remain that way until they’re no longer angry.” “Use a pair of toy handcuffs to join two siblings who can’t seem to get along. It’s really fun to watch them try to eat dinner like this, or read a book, or take the garbage out, tasks I’ll often assign them.” “Hugs, even forced ones, are good at breaking down barriers.” “Make each child stand at opposite ends of the yard. Then have them yell ‘I love you!’ back and forth 20 times.”
I fail to see what is wrong with this. With some kids, it just might work. Mine would find many of those things silly and fun and would stop fighting.
Again, this quote is on a few pages of suggestions for dealing with sibling rivalry. Suggestions. Tools. Not right for every kid or every family, but might just help in others.
(It's page 208 in my book.)
quote:
p.207 “If they are unable to cooperate with one another, they must play in the backyard, whether it’s 30 degrees or 100 degrees outside.”
(pg 212 in my book)
The next sentence says "Of course, on those kinds of days, they seem to be able to work things out more quickly."
Also, my kids play outside and DO get along better out there, anywhere from 15 to 80 degrees. Again, I fail to see what is wrong with sending fighting kids outside to get their wiggles out and blow off some steam making a snow fort.
quote:
p.265 Sample prayer for a child “Dear God, Thank you that my parents love me and that because they love me, they correct me when I sin. Thank you that the spankings drive out the foolishness in my heart.”
I can't find this exact quote. It is probably there...I just can't find it. There is a section with suggested prayers to pray with children who are struggling in certain areas. I definitely fail to see what is wrong with this, though I can see how some parents could use this to be abusive. Those parents would be abusive without a book though, as a book is the least of their problems.
IMO, this book is more to get parents thinking. There are all kinds of ways to help kids learn the lessons we as parents need to teach them. For Brian and I, this book is helpful to get us thinking outside of the time-out/remove privilege/spanking box.
ETA...LOL...Garsy and I cross-posted.
It's been a while since I looked at this book. I think I'm going to read it again! Thanks! 
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/8/2009 9:18:20 AM
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stateofgrace
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I can understand "practicing obedience" with positive incentive, I just don't think it's a good idea to set up situations in order to "trap" young children in disobedience.
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/8/2009 6:35:57 PM
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garsyt
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quote:
I just don't think it's a good idea to set up situations in order to "trap" young children in disobedience.
I guess I don't understand how any of Welchel's suggestions are "trapping" a child in disobedience. Seriously - I'm being honest here. Help me understand.
Garsy
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My Blog: www.moredayslikethisplease.wordpress.com
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/8/2009 10:24:35 PM
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sarahwithanh
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I have this book but haven't read much of it yet. I don't expect this, or any other book, to be a step by step instruction manual, but I'm hoping to get some new ideas. My youngest is so much different than my oldest!
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/9/2009 9:21:04 AM
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momma_bee
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I have never read the book
I did teach my child not to blow spit bubbles by putting a clean cloth diaper in his mouth when he did it. When he was two, he went to daycare and at the end of the first day, they proudly showed me when he had done....If you guess 'blow a bubble' you'd be right...
I don't like the idea of forbidding a child to go to the bathroom but I think that is because I would tell my child that they have to wait, rather than they aren't 'allowed'.
Spray them with water? That is tempting, even when they are 14 and hormonal, but I think that would benefit me much more than them. And, DeeDee would see it as a reward.
And I have added NOTHING to the conversation.
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/9/2009 9:39:31 AM
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HenriettasCat
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Blowing spit bubbles is part of speech and language development - that's probably why they were so proud!
Now my deal is when I paint with my 3 year old he always has to paint his hands because they do hand and feet painting at preschool - it may be fun there but I really don't want to blink and find little green footprints all along the hall carpet 
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/9/2009 9:43:46 AM
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Consecrated2God
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I haven't read the book either, but I don't classify the examples given as child abuse. Maybe not something I would do, but they aren't abusive.
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/9/2009 10:01:41 AM
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manda59
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I'm also not happy at all with the Tabasco sauce on the tongue punishment.
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"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/9/2009 10:11:51 AM
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PrincessDonna
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So don't use it. Pretty simple, eh?
Not every tool is for every family, or even every kid in every family.
That is the beauty of this book, IMO. It's got 360+ pages of IDEAS. Things to get you thinking. Obviously what might work for one child will be disasterous for another, which is why we need to use wisdom when using any discipline method for our children.
To pick one or ten things out of the book and say "I don't like those" is ridiculous, IMO. So don't use those things you don't like! No one says you have to...isn't that wonderful? 
Manda, I bet you would find a lot in the book you do like, and also chuckle a bit at how she describes her children's antics in an obviously loving way. Have you read the book?
< Message edited by PrincessDonna -- 1/9/2009 10:20:16 AM >
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/9/2009 10:18:54 AM
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manda59
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrincessDonna
So don't use it. Pretty simple, eh?
Not every tool is for every family, or even every kid in every family.[/color]
I think using tabasco or soap in a child's mouth to stop them saying nasty things or "bad" words is likely to have a repressive effect, and inhibit them from telling you about any negative emotions they have.
That's if you can get them to open their mouths to start with. If they won't, what do people do - force them?
_____________________________
"Manda.....you said what I tried to say, just much better"
sharonjef, October 2009
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/9/2009 10:20:56 AM
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PrincessDonna
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Sorry, Manda, I added to my post...
AND I never said whether I agreed with the tabasco on the tongue thing either. I have personally not used that method. That's not the point. That's also not the point of the book.
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/9/2009 10:33:08 AM
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Consecrated2God
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My mom used soap in my mouth when I was a kid. <shrug> It didn't kill me.
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"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/9/2009 10:58:57 AM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
From what I've read, she recommends spraying water into the face of a toddler having a temper tantrum (are children cats?), or denying food to a child who doesn't do their chores, or saying no to a child who asks to go to the bathroom, just to test how well they obey you.
I thought that would make an interesting discussion all by itself, so I started another thread HERE about it.
_____________________________
"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Creative Correction by Lisa Welchel. Opinions - 1/9/2009 11:09:06 AM
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Room2Grow
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I have read most of it, and I don't think anything she advocates is abuse. I had a glass of cold water ready to throw on my tantruming 2 year old last week- nothing else was working to get her to calm down, so the next move was some water to "shock" her out of it- to me, it isn't the *best* option, but when you have tried other things and need something more creative, it can work. I have also used the hot sauce for language problems with our oldest and it works very well- in the three years that we have done it, I have only had to use this method about 5 times- spankings and time outs were simply not working, but the sauce usually takes one refresher on how much she doesn't like it and that motivates her to change. A couple drops of hot sauce v. repeated other punishments seems a lot more practical and less cruel. For the most part, if I set the bottle on the counter, she reigns herself in pretty quickly.
I do recall something about catching kids in trouble- I think it was an overall thought of making sure that they disobeyed while you could catch them and train them, not that you were constantly setting traps for them to "trip them up." (though personally, if a child had a certain problem, ie. stealing, I would not be opposed to a sting operation to deal with that)
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Jennifer
Jesus knows me, this I love.
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