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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/8/2009 4:01:22 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97 quote:
Nisan (or Nissan) (Hebrew: נִיסָן, Standard Nisan Tiberian Nîsān) is the seventh month (eighth, in leap year) of the civil year and the first month of the ecclesiastical year on the Hebrew calendar. The name of the month is Babylonian; in the Torah it is called the month of the Aviv, referring to a stage in the ripening of barley which occurs during the month. It is a spring month of 30 days. Nisan usually falls in March–April on the Gregorian calendar. In the Book of Esther in the Tanakh it is referred to as Nisan. From the Wikipedia. Hi CherishedbyGod, The word Nisan describes the Jewish month that corresponds with our time period of late March early April. It is the seventh month of the Jewish calendar and the 14 of Nisan is the day of preparation for the feast of Passover that we associate with Easter. The 14th of Nisan was the day that Christ was crucified. Bob Thank you, so much!
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For...Through His suffering, I am free!!! ~ The Power of the Cross ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwzt9jRUPNg
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/8/2009 4:17:47 PM
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navyblueret
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Bob, Shalom. Actually, Nissan (aka: Ab) is Month #-1 (Lev 23:5). The Fall Feasts are in the Seventh (Lunar) month. In Messiah His Shalom, and Timex. Arley
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In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh. Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman. (Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/8/2009 7:23:44 PM
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bob97
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Arley...wouldn't it depend upon the calendar one is using? As stated seventh month for the civil calendar and 1st month for the ecclesiastical year? Bob
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/8/2009 7:53:19 PM
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navyblueret
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Bob, Shalom. You would be right, perhaps, if you all were discussing a dinner engagement. Here, however, you are discussing Feasts of God, and He only directed them one way, and that is with Ab (Nissan) being month number one. Shucks, I don't get a chance to correct you, hardly ever. I had to jump on this one, heh heh heh, tag your it. In Messiah, His Shalom, and (tick/tock/tick/tock). Arley
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In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh. Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman. (Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/8/2009 8:12:47 PM
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bob97
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OK Arley...I give up. Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me! The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 7:33:10 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy IMHO What seems to missing is the phase that the moon was in to determine what year Jesus was crucified in.... Absolutely it is not missing. The moon was full. As Passover is on the 15th day after the new (dark of ) moon it ALWAYS happens on full moon. In fact 2 of the 3 pilgrim feasts occur on full moons. Shavuot/Pentecost may or may not fall near a full moon depending on how you count the omer. Sukkot/Tabernacles always is on the 15th of the month as well - another full moon. Since it ALWAYS happens on a full moon, that would not determine the year.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 7:39:43 AM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy Moses made no mention of the moon as being established when the Passover was established …. 1 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, 2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you. Instead of our word "month" substitute "cycle of the moon." Originally moon cycle and month were synonamous but with the Roman calendar (solar based) that got left behind.
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Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ==================================== Our CD is now available here: http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 3:36:51 PM
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prayn4u
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I've enjoyed looking through these posts. quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth POST #27 Last Supper = Tuesday evening [Abib 13, 4029] Preparation Day (we call it passover) = Wednesday [Abib 14] Laid in the grave as the high sabbath was beginning High Sabbath = Thursday [Abib 15] first day of Unleavened Bread The women couldn't work on thursday because it was a "feast sabbath" They got spices and prepared them (not an easy task) = Friday [Abib 16] Couldn't work = Saturday the weekly Sabbath (or sabbath according to the law) [Abib 17] The Lord of the Sabbath was in the grave Wednesday night, Thursday day, Thursday night, Friday day, Friday night, Saturday day [3 nights & 3 days] He was in the grave 3 nights and 3 days. He rose on the third day late on the weekly Sabbath [Abib 17] The women came during the night after Sabbath and early the first day Sunday. The tomb was "empty." These everyone already knows or can look up: Luke 23:50 ------ John 19:38-20:31 Mark 15:42-16:14 Matt. 27:57-28:15 What do you think of this table? danielstimeline.com Here is the main article: crucifixtionweek
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 4:21:19 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raoooul quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret Bob, Shalom. Actually, Nissan (aka: Ab) is Month #-1 (Lev 23:5). The Fall Feasts are in the Seventh (Lunar) month. In Messiah His Shalom, and Timex. Arley As i mentioned in an earlier post, there are four new years in the Jewish calendar. This creates confusion for those not familiar with the Jewish calendar. Rosh HaShana 'The New Year" is the new year for men. In other words G-d will decide who lives and dies in that year at the end of the Festival season, by the end of Tisray. And Nisan is the New year for the counting of the months. So Nisan is the first month, while Tishray is the seventh month. Just so people are up to speed. Since we are being particular here. The "jewish" calander is not the biblical calendar either. Judaism adopted the babilonian names during the captivity and the idea of new year is a curruption of a concept. The names Nisan, Tisray, et al are babilonian names, the Scriptures merely number the months. This is like calling the first month April. It usually includes part of what we call April, but it is not the same. Since we do not use the babilonian calendar, few people realize the difference. However, there is a difference. It confuses the right understanding Scriptures as the gregorian calendar does today. In the Scriptures there is one new year, 14 days before Pesach. Sukkot is the turning of the year as in the far turn in a race track. Yom Kippur is not a new year, but assures us that we will live for another year. A secular equivalent would be April 15, our debt has been paid for the year. Sukkot is the turning of the year as in the far turn in a race track.It is the time when we shift our focus from remembering Sinai and the wilderness to the realization of the promise. There is a fourth day, not an appointed time, that some rabbis have designated as the agricultural year for determining when a tree is three years old and elegible for fruit harvest. For most these are not a concern. However, if one wishes to understand the appointed times they are significant.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 4:22:13 PM
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navyblueret
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prayin4u, Shalom. That is one of the minor errors made in www.danielstimeline.com video. Look at your calculation, and you will find that Jesus ends up in the grave the nights of Wed. Thurs. Fri. and Sat. He can only be in the tomb for 'three.' The High Sabbath consists, as you say, from Thursday sunset to Saturday sunset (two-full-days and nights). As I understand the counting of time and days, in Hebrew, 'a part of a day counts as a day.' The 'Paschal lamb' is taken to the Temple the morning of Nissan (Av) 10, which in this particular year was on what we call Sunday morning. It must be kept, and watched, by the High Priest, for four days (Su/M, M/Tu, Tu/W, W/Th), at which-time, at sunrise on day four (Thursday), the High Priest declares: 'I find no fault in him.' Then, at morning 'Even,' the lamb is tied to the Alter, until the (afternoon) 'Even' (apx. 3PM) when the High Priest would stat: 'I thirst,' then, the Paschal Lamb, as the last sacrifice of the day, is sacrificed, and the High Priest closes with the declaration: 'It is finished.' (Please think about the statements, and the times made, by Pilot, and Jesus) Prophecy, and the Holy Convocations, rehearsed for fourteen hundred years, are carried out, to the letter, that day of glory, for our souls, and redemption. Oh yes, and the nights counted Thurs. Fri. Sat. to account for the 3-nights. Jesus ate the Pasach preparation meal with the Disciples, on what we would call Wednesday evening, after sunset, the beginning of the fifth Hebrew day. He was crucified what we call Thursday (daylight) (H,day-5), died and placed in the tomb, before sunset,...........and then the count finalizes during the nighttime, before sunrise on what we call Sunday, which is the day after Shabbat, and is the Feast of Wave Offering, for the Barley (which, by the way, is what determines when Month One (Av/Nissan) is to start, with the sighting of the new (sliver) moon). I hope this helps with the understanding of the counting, plus, to some degree, how Prophecy was being fulfilled. In Messiah, His Shalom, and clarity. Arley
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In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh. Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman. (Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 4:23:52 PM
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Lapidoth
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Exodus 12:2 = beginning of months Deuteronomy 16:1 = month of Abib The first month is Abib --- later called Nisan in Babylon. Abib is an agricultural term. God's way of setting the Adar Bet (Adar 2) or Leap Month. God's in control of His Time. We aren't. We may ignore His method of time, but He still operates according to it. Tradition may give 4 new years, but the Bible only acknowledges one.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it? http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 4:31:22 PM
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navyblueret
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Bluethread, Shalom. Thank you for the information. I alluded, just a tad, about the name differences, but didn't go into that in any depth, as I didn't feel it was necessary to the OP, and to be honest, I am not that well versed. I didn't know the Rabbinical viewpoint that well, either, so I learned something new. Thanks. I celebrate the month changes according to the sightings of the new sliver in the moon, as reported by Karaite Korner.com. The, mechanical, Hebrew calendar, right now, is two days off, but who's counting? Ha. In Messiah, His Shalom, and teaching. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh. Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman. (Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 4:40:15 PM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: navyblueret Bluethread, Shalom. Thank you for the information. I alluded, just a tad, about the name differences, but didn't go into that in any depth, as I didn't feel it was necessary to the OP, and to be honest, I am not that well versed. I didn't know the Rabbinical viewpoint that well, either, so I learned something new. Thanks. I celebrate the month changes according to the sightings of the new sliver in the moon, as reported by Karaite Korner.com. The, mechanical, Hebrew calendar, right now, is two days off, but who's counting? Ha. In Messiah, His Shalom, and teaching. Arley These things are not obvious as one reads the Scriptures, they only become clear as one discusses them with others and confusion ensues. This is why such things as new moons are important, though not a deal breaker. They are important for the purpose of avoiding confusion. If, some do not mind being confused, that is fine. However, I don't like being confused, myself.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 4:43:16 PM
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raoooul
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth Last Supper = Tuesday evening [Abib 13, 4029] First of all, i doubt that this was Tuesday by any streach of the imagination. But i'm not going to contest that as i was not there. And i can tell you though that the year 4029 is way off, as this year is 5769 [Jewish] in 2009 [secular]. Second, Might i point out that the biblical day starts out at sunset: (Gen 1:5 BBE) Naming the light, Day, and the dark, Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day. And we know that this last supper was not the Pesach Seder, for it is stated: (Mat 26:17 BBE) Now on the first day of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, Where are we to make ready for you to take the Passover meal? Now, on the other hand, if Matthew made a mistake and it is actually the 14th of Ab, then the last supper would be the Pesach Seder. If it is the first day of the Feast of UnLeavened Bread, then the Passover/Pesach is over and finished. So the actual date at this point is obviously the 15th of Ab. quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth Preparation Day (we call it passover) = Wednesday [Abib 14] Laid in the grave as the high sabbath was beginning High Sabbath = Thursday [Abib 15] first day of Unleavened Bread As for the 'high Shabbat' this would be the regualar Shabbat during the Feast of UnLeavened Bread, according to the Jewish calendar. quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth The women couldn't work on thursday because it was a "feast sabbath" This appears to be an extra day for some reason, not found in the bible. quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth They got spices and prepared them (not an easy task) = Friday [Abib 16] Couldn't work = Saturday the weekly Sabbath (or sabbath according to the law) [Abib 17] The Lord of the Sabbath was in the grave Wednesday night, Thursday day, Thursday night, Friday day, Friday night, Saturday day [3 nights & 3 days] He was in the grave 3 nights and 3 days. He rose on the third day late on the weekly Sabbath [Abib 17] The women came during the night after Sabbath and early the first day Sunday. The tomb was "empty." These everyone already knows or can look up: Luke 23:50 ------ John 19:38-20:31 Mark 15:42-16:14 Matt. 27:57-28:15 I find this last part totally concoted, as there is nowhere in the bible that discusses such extra days. The way i read it: There was the 'last supper' on the night of the 15th of Ab. Then Iesus went to the garden near morning. He was hauled into the Temple just before day break on the 15th of Ab. Then he was tortured and crucified during the 15th of Ab. And finally he was buried just before sunset of the 15th/16th of Ab. Problems with the whole story are, that the Sadducee Sanhedrion conviened and held a trial during a Feast. The next thing that bothers me is the use of spices, as this is forbidden by Jewish law.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 4:51:32 PM
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navyblueret
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Raoooul, Shalom. Mat 26:17 is, IMO, a minor error in the Greek, and should have been transcribed as being: 'On the first day of the week of unleavened bread...." The day reference is not to d-1 of the U/B Feast, and has truly been a confusion for 'chrono' types like myself. Just a thought. Im Messiah, His Shalom, and counting. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh. Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman. (Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 4:59:23 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
I find this last part totally concoted, as there is nowhere in the bible that discusses such extra days. The way i read it: There was the 'last supper' on the night of the 15th of Ab. Then Iesus went to the garden near morning. He was hauled into the Temple just before day break on the 15th of Ab. Then he was tortured and crucified during the 15th of Ab. And finally he was buried just before sunset of the 15th/16th of Ab. You're right.............this is the "way you read it." Abib 15 was a sabbath day. The 15th and the 21st are both sabbath days. The weekly sabbath was in the middle of the feast week. Preparation day is Abib 14, so Jesus was not crucified on the Abib 15. Abib 14 was when they were dragging Him around before Pilate, etc. The would not enter Pilate's domain because they could not keep Unleavened Bread if they had. You need to find a person knowledgeable about these things. Lev. 23:7 [first day high sabbath] in the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no serivle work therein. Lev. 23:8 [seventh day high sabbath] But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servie work therein. The first day and the last day is a sabbath = no work. The sabbath according to the Law = Saturday (Ex. 20)
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 3/9/2009 5:06:40 PM >
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it? http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 7:13:17 PM
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bob97
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Story of two Sabbaths: • The day after was Friday, an ordinary day and the women collected the spices to embalm His body, a regular task for women to do : "And when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint Him." (Mar 16:1) "And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment." (Luk 23:56) We can see here after the Sabbath was past (the High day) that the woman bought the Spices (on Friday) and when they had prepared them, they rested the following Sabbath (Saturday), Three days and nights in the tomb: • Wednesday 6 pm to Thursday 6 am = one night (high Sabbath) • Thursday 6 am to Thursday 6 pm = one day (24 hours) (high Sabbath) • Thursday 6 pm to Friday 6 am another night = 2 nights so far (ordinary Day) • Friday 6 am to Friday 6 pm another day = 2 days so far (48 hours) (ordinary Day) • Friday 6 pm to Saturday 6 am another night = 3 nights so far (Saturday Sabbath) • Saturday 6 am to Saturday 6 pm another day = 3 days (72 hours) (Saturday Sabbath) • No other combination gives 3 nights and 3 days, i. e. 72 hours. • Jesus resurrected during Saturday 6 pm to Sunday 6 am, or the night preceding Sunday, precise time unknown, but most likely it was Saturday at sunset (Mar 16:9). Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me! The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/9/2009 7:50:49 PM
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navyblueret
Posts: 1971
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One thing, Bob. If you are hired to work in the vineyard, Thursday, with only one hour of daylight remaining, and you are paid for one 'whole' Thursday's work, does it not make sense that if one dies during the daylight hours of any given day time, that 'day time' counts as a day? One more example: As I understand Hebrew chronology, when a person is born, from that moment for a year, they are 'one year old.' That is because they do not count like we Gentiles count. We say 1-year-old, at the end of the year, and they count 1-year-old throughout the whole first year. Jesus (Yaeshuah Ha Meshiach) was executed on what we call the daytime hours of 'Thursday' (any portion equating to a whole daytime). I wonder why God has asked me to make the counting, and Prophecy, clear to everyone when even you will not step back and take a hard look at your error. I surrender. I have tried, an no one seems to give a hoot about truth of the crucifixion. Sadly, without knowledge of that truth, He will come as a thief in the night, as you will be snoozing, while the fire in the Alter goes out. I divorce myself from this thread. My frustration runs deep. In Messiah, His forgiveness, as no one will hear. Arley
_____________________________
In the name of 'THE' Mashiach, Man the wall, set the watch, sound the Shofar. Our redemption draws nigh. Messiah, my Captain, and Helmsman. (Joh 14:6 KJV) ... I am the way, the truth, and the life: ...
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/10/2009 12:17:42 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
I wonder why God has asked me to make the counting, and Prophecy, clear to everyone when even you will not step back and take a hard look at your error. I surrender. I have tried, an no one seems to give a hoot about truth of the crucifixion. Sadly, without knowledge of that truth, He will come as a thief in the night, as you will be snoozing, while the fire in the Alter goes out. I divorce myself from this thread. My frustration runs deep. Hi Arley. We can understand your frustration. But, it's over minimal things. You believe God means "part of a day" as a day. Me and Bob believe that in this case, 3 days = 3 days. Not 2 1/2 days, etc. Jesus said there are 12 hours in a day. That leaves 12 hours in a night. It's important we connect the dots. But the trouble is, we don't all connect the dots the same. I have an illustration in this area I use with five dots on paper or board. I use man-made doctrines using the five dots and they all come out as a five-pointed star. They sound good, and they do make a picture. Then I take the same five dots. Connect them as we might assume Scripture does, and it will come out with the figure of a "house." LOL...........You'd just have to see it. And God asked you to make the counting, etc.? It's in the Scripture. But it's in the Hebrew way as shown by God. We try to align it in our Greek/Gentile minds............LOL You've heard the expression. We still have the same base (I Cor. 3:10). Next month/year you may think just like us, or vice-versa.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it? http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/10/2009 1:29:20 PM
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bob97
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Arley I’m sorry if I have offended you in any way. That was not my intent. All I intended was to give my analysis of the event of the crucifixion and the time line surrounding it. I feel strongly that the time line presented is correct based on analysis of scripture. This is something that was studied by the group last year and you can read the history at this address; http://forums.crosswalk.com/m_2981064/mpage_13/tm.htm Does this mean it is correct…no it does not and we cannot be sure in this life but I do feel in my heart it is truthful base on the description contained in the gosples. Once again…sorry if we have offended you. Bob
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The LORD clears the road for me! The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/10/2009 2:12:01 PM
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Lapidoth
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Hey Bob............. I went back to last years forum on this subject. I noticed we had the same ping-pong discussions..........lol And the last post was to the bottomless all-things pit.........LOL. Hopefully we can stay on track this year.
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it? http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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