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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/10/2009 2:27:45 PM
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bob97
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It is never easy is it Lap?
Bob
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The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/10/2009 3:46:43 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5591
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
It is never easy is it Lap?
Bob
Never, never, never..........LOL
You weed through everything, then you comb through it,
then you get a finer comb and go over it again, and then
you get a sieve and go over it again....................
No end, but an interesting journey.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/12/2009 2:55:10 PM
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Lapidoth
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Here's a non-biased link
LINK
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/14/2009 11:05:02 AM
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raoooul
Posts: 168
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Here's a non-biased link
LINK
He does not seem very well biblically based:
quote:
In Exodus God gave his people three holidays to celebrate, the first sewing, the first harvest and the Passover. In Isaiah 1 it talks about God’s dismay about his people celebrating their own festivals. I just found this quite challenging.
Let me point out the Festivals given by G-d:
1, (Lev 23:5 BBE) In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at nightfall, is the Lord's Passover;
2, (Lev 23:6 BBE) And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread; for seven days let your food be unleavened bread.
3, (Lev 23:16 BBE) Let fifty days be numbered, to the day after the seventh Sabbath; then you are to give a new meal offering to the Lord....
(Lev 23:21 BBE) And on the same day, let it be given out that there will be a holy meeting for you: you may do no field-work on that day: it is a rule for ever through all your generations wherever you are living.
4, (Lev 23:24 BBE) Say to the children of Israel, In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, let there be a special day of rest for you, a day of memory, marked by the blowing of horns, a meeting for worship.
5, (Lev 23:27 BBE) The tenth day of this seventh month is the day for the taking away of sin; let it be a holy day of worship; you are to keep from pleasure, and give to the Lord an offering made by fire.
(Lev 23:28 BBE) And on that day you may do no sort of work, for it is a day of taking away sin, to make you clean before the Lord your God.
6, (Lev 23:34 BBE) Say to the children of Israel, On the fifteenth day of this seventh month let the feast of tents be kept to the Lord for seven days.
(Lev 23:35 BBE) On the first day there will be a holy meeting: do no field-work.
7, (Lev 23:39 JPS) Howbeit on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruits of the land, ye shall keep the feast of the LORD seven days; on the first day shall be a solemn rest, and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest.
This last is always missed, but as the Festival of Booths was only 7 days long, the eight day is a separate Festival:
(Lev 23:39 JPS) ... and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest.
8, Then of course do not forget the Shabbat.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/19/2009 12:27:25 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5591
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raoooul
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Here's a non-biased link
LINK
He does not seem very well biblically based:
quote:
In Exodus God gave his people three holidays to celebrate, the first sewing, the first harvest and the Passover. In Isaiah 1 it talks about God’s dismay about his people celebrating their own festivals. I just found this quite challenging.
Let me point out the Festivals given by G-d:
1, (Lev 23:5 BBE) In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at nightfall, is the Lord's Passover;
2, (Lev 23:6 BBE) And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread; for seven days let your food be unleavened bread.
3, (Lev 23:16 BBE) Let fifty days be numbered, to the day after the seventh Sabbath; then you are to give a new meal offering to the Lord....
(Lev 23:21 BBE) And on the same day, let it be given out that there will be a holy meeting for you: you may do no field-work on that day: it is a rule for ever through all your generations wherever you are living.
4, (Lev 23:24 BBE) Say to the children of Israel, In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, let there be a special day of rest for you, a day of memory, marked by the blowing of horns, a meeting for worship.
5, (Lev 23:27 BBE) The tenth day of this seventh month is the day for the taking away of sin; let it be a holy day of worship; you are to keep from pleasure, and give to the Lord an offering made by fire.
(Lev 23:28 BBE) And on that day you may do no sort of work, for it is a day of taking away sin, to make you clean before the Lord your God.
6, (Lev 23:34 BBE) Say to the children of Israel, On the fifteenth day of this seventh month let the feast of tents be kept to the Lord for seven days.
(Lev 23:35 BBE) On the first day there will be a holy meeting: do no field-work.
7, (Lev 23:39 JPS) Howbeit on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruits of the land, ye shall keep the feast of the LORD seven days; on the first day shall be a solemn rest, and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest.
This last is always missed, but as the Festival of Booths was only 7 days long, the eight day is a separate Festival:
(Lev 23:39 JPS) ... and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest.
8, Then of course do not forget the Shabbat.
LOL............preaching to the professor?
8th day of Sukkot = "last great day"
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/19/2009 3:20:51 PM
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bgwill3
Posts: 24
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Matt. 28:1 KJV
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward
the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to
to see the sepulchre.
[NASB]
now late on the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the
first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
The "dawning of a new day" is at "twiligt as it is getting dark."
Not the first light in the morning.
The Sabbath (weekly) ended at sundown, and the two Marys came to look
at the gravesite after the Sabbath ended. Jesus had already risen.
He rose on the third day, on the Sabbath. [Abib 17]
Parallel passages give us a "very early in the morning" explanation as to when exactly the women came to the tomb.
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. (Luke 24:1)
And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:2)
I am not certain how these can be construed to fit with your timeline, which seems to indicate that the women came just after the setting of the sun (which was reckoned the first day of the week by Jews, but not by Romans/Greeks).
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/19/2009 3:56:46 PM
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gillian79
Posts: 55
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Sabbath what day? got to be the most complaiced study!
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/19/2009 7:48:27 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2958
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bgwill3
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. (Luke 24:1)
And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:2)
I am not certain how these can be construed to fit with your timeline, which seems to indicate that the women came just after the setting of the sun (which was reckoned the first day of the week by Jews, but not by Romans/Greeks).
The phrase is better translated as toward dawn. Dawn can also mean the beginning, it need not mean sunrise. Though I might argue this point as a nuance, I would be willing to give up that point in exchange for an admission that this is the women coming to the tomb and not an account of the actual ressurrection event.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/20/2009 4:06:10 PM
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raoooul
Posts: 168
Joined: 3/7/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: raoooul
7, (Lev 23:39 JPS) Howbeit on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruits of the land, ye shall keep the feast of the LORD seven days; on the first day shall be a solemn rest, and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest.
This last is always missed, but as the Festival of Booths was only 7 days long, the eight day is a separate Festival:
(Lev 23:39 JPS) ... and on the eighth day shall be a solemn rest.
LOL............preaching to the professor?
8th day of Sukkot = "last great day"
Hmmm, but the 8th day celebrated outside of Israel is due to the length of time it took to inform the Jews living in Bavel and other communities. But in Israel, they have always only celebrated 7 days of the Festival of Sukkot [Booths]. They only keep up the 8th day today because of tradition, as there is now a set calendar, since Hillel II.
There is no biblical based purpose for the 8th day. Look as Pesach [Passover].
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/20/2009 4:13:38 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2958
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raoooul
There is no biblical based purpose for the 8th day. Look as Pesach [Passover].[/color]
There is another interesting twist on history here. If one believes Yeshua was born on the first day of Sukkot, as I do, the eighth day would commemorate Yeshua's brit melah.
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"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/20/2009 5:02:41 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
There is another interesting twist on history here. If one believes Yeshua was born on the first day of Sukkot, as I do, the eighth day would commemorate Yeshua's brit melah.
Would you be so kind to explain the emboldened to the OP'er 
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/20/2009 8:07:09 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 1636
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
There is another interesting twist on history here. If one believes Yeshua was born on the first day of Sukkot, as I do, the eighth day would commemorate Yeshua's brit melah.
Would you be so kind to explain the emboldened to the OP'er
Sukkot -The Feast of Tabernacles. It is seven day feast in autumn during which we are to live in temporary dwellings. An eighth day is mentioned for a convocation at the end of the feast.
brit melah - ritual circumcision. The Scriptures say it is to be performed on the eighth day of a boys life. Thus, if Yeshua was born on the first day of Sukkot His brit melah would be on the eighth day, which is commanded, but not explained in the Scriptures.
Thank you!
_____________________________
For...Through His suffering, I am free!!!
~ The Power of the Cross ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwzt9jRUPNg
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/23/2009 8:29:16 AM
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raoooul
Posts: 168
Joined: 3/7/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Sukkot -The Feast of Tabernacles. It is seven day feast in autumn during which we are to live in temporary dwellings. An eighth day is mentioned for a convocation at the end of the feast.
brit melah - ritual circumcision. The Scriptures say it is to be performed on the eighth day of a boys life. Thus, if Yeshua was born on the first day of Sukkot His brit melah would be on the eighth day, which is commanded, but not explained in the Scriptures.
Hmmm, then are you of the opinion the the book of Luke is correct and Iesus was born in Jerusalem ? As all men were commanded to be in Jerusalem during the Festivals.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/23/2009 7:43:51 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2958
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raoooul
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Sukkot -The Feast of Tabernacles. It is seven day feast in autumn during which we are to live in temporary dwellings. An eighth day is mentioned for a convocation at the end of the feast.
brit melah - ritual circumcision. The Scriptures say it is to be performed on the eighth day of a boys life. Thus, if Yeshua was born on the first day of Sukkot His brit melah would be on the eighth day, which is commanded, but not explained in the Scriptures.
Hmmm, then are you of the opinion the the book of Luke is correct and Iesus was born in Jerusalem ? As all men were commanded to be in Jerusalem during the Festivals.
HaTorah makes an exception for those who are on a journey. Since all were to go to their ancestral home by the Roman government. That would provide just such an exception. Also, I am not sure all had to tabernacle in Jerusalem. All are to attempt to be at the convocation in Jerusalem. Joseph could have went there the next morning. His Brit Milah may very well have been at the Temple on the 8th day convocation.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/24/2009 8:02:39 AM
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raoooul
Posts: 168
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: raoooul
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
Sukkot -The Feast of Tabernacles. It is seven day feast in autumn during which we are to live in temporary dwellings. An eighth day is mentioned for a convocation at the end of the feast.
brit melah - ritual circumcision. The Scriptures say it is to be performed on the eighth day of a boys life. Thus, if Yeshua was born on the first day of Sukkot His brit melah would be on the eighth day, which is commanded, but not explained in the Scriptures.
Hmmm, then are you of the opinion the the book of Luke is correct and Iesus was born in Jerusalem ? As all men were commanded to be in Jerusalem during the Festivals.
HaTorah makes an exception for those who are on a journey. Since all were to go to their ancestral home by the Roman government. That would provide just such an exception. Also, I am not sure all had to tabernacle in Jerusalem. All are to attempt to be at the convocation in Jerusalem. Joseph could have went there the next morning. His Brit Milah may very well have been at the Temple on the 8th day convocation.
And yet, this only concerned Pesach and no other Festival.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/24/2009 11:00:09 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2279
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bgwill3
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Matt. 28:1 KJV
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward
the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to
to see the sepulchre.
[NASB]
now late on the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the
first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
The "dawning of a new day" is at "twiligt as it is getting dark."
Not the first light in the morning.
The Sabbath (weekly) ended at sundown, and the two Marys came to look
at the gravesite after the Sabbath ended. Jesus had already risen.
He rose on the third day, on the Sabbath. [Abib 17]
Parallel passages give us a "very early in the morning" explanation as to when exactly the women came to the tomb.
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. (Luke 24:1)
And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:2)
I am not certain how these can be construed to fit with your timeline, which seems to indicate that the women came just after the setting of the sun (which was reckoned the first day of the week by Jews, but not by Romans/Greeks).
Greetings
The Jewish day began at sundown to sunrise
therefore "the evening" ..12 hours
and "the morning" sunrise to sundown ...
12 hours is 1 day
now late on the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, is telling us that late on the Sabbath is coming in the last hour of the morning ...therefore "to dawn toward" the first day of the week.... means it is coming close to sundown ..."the evening" 12 Hours
quote:
I am not certain how these can be construed to fit with your timeline, which seems to indicate that the women came just after the setting of the sun (which was reckoned the first day of the week by Jews, but not by Romans/Greeks).
the women came just after the setting of the sun
That’s not what the scripture is showing us….as it “began” to dawn toward the first day of the week is not after the setting of the sun… it was before.
BUT here it would be
John 20:19-25
19 Then, the same "day" at evening , being the first day of the week,
The indication there “at evening” … is the beginning of the next day or the first day of the week
all that occurred between the time “before” the first day of the week when Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to to see the sepulcher…. and at evening the same "day" at evening , being the first day of the week…. when Jesus came and stood in the midst, of them,….was only a matter of hours
LG
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/24/2009 12:03:40 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5591
Joined: 4/13/2005
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Which puts the resurrection on the sabbath
and the visitation on first day................
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Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/24/2009 12:41:45 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2279
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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I’m sorry but all of these verses would lead me to understand that it was just before dawn that the two Mary’s came to the tomb.
John 20:1 ( YLT ) 1And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene doth come early (there being yet darkness) to the tomb, and she seeth the stone having been taken away out of the tomb, .
Luke 24:12 ( YLT ) 12And Peter having risen, did run to the tomb, and having stooped down he seeth the linen clothes lying alone, and he went away to his own home, wondering at that which was come to pass.
Mark 16:12-13 ( YLT ) 12And after these things, to two of them, as they are going into a field, walking, he was manifested in another form, 13and they having gone, told to the rest; not even them did they believe.
Matthew 28:1 ( YLT ) 1And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,
Bob
_____________________________
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The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/24/2009 3:58:08 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2958
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raoooul
And yet, this only concerned Pesach and no other Festival.
Yes, in looking at it, the jouirney exception is for Pesach only. However, as I pointed out Bethlehem, and most of Israel for that matter, is close enough to make it possible for Joseph to have attended the Sukkot High Day convocation.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/25/2009 8:47:38 AM
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raoooul
Posts: 168
Joined: 3/7/2009
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: raoooul
And yet, this only concerned Pesach and no other Festival.
Yes, in looking at it, the jouirney exception is for Pesach only. However, as I pointed out Bethlehem, and most of Israel for that matter, is close enough to make it possible for Joseph to have attended the Sukkot High Day convocation.
Not really:
quote:
(Act 1:12 KJV) Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
They could not travel any farther distance on any Festival.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/25/2009 12:56:45 PM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5591
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quote:
ORIGINAL: raoooul
quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: raoooul
And yet, this only concerned Pesach and no other Festival.
Yes, in looking at it, the jouirney exception is for Pesach only. However, as I pointed out Bethlehem, and most of Israel for that matter, is close enough to make it possible for Joseph to have attended the Sukkot High Day convocation.
Not really:
quote:
(Act 1:12 KJV) Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
They could not travel any farther distance on any Festival.
a sabbath's day journey is not biblical, it's rabbinic.
They waited until Sukkot to register as they had all year to register.
Mary went into labor at Bethlehem which caused the fulfillment of
Scripture. They had booths to stay in. There was no hotels then.
Mary had seven days of purification and Jesus was circumcised the
8th day. The facts add up, but our traditions don't.
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/25/2009 3:48:19 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2958
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
a sabbath's day journey is not biblical, it's rabbinic.
Thanks. I doubt that the Sanhedrian inforced that interpretation during Sukkot. To require the entire nation to be in Jerusalem from sundown Erev Sukkot Alef to sundown Erev Sukkot Bet would be an extreme burden on the Sanhedrian itself. Since, they tended to interpret things to their advantage, as politicians do today, I would think they would have made an exception for the sake of the pilgrimage feasts.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/26/2009 10:08:28 AM
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raoooul
Posts: 168
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
quote:
ORIGINAL: raoooul
quote:
(Act 1:12 KJV) Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey.
They could not travel any farther distance on any Festival.
a sabbath's day journey is not biblical, it's rabbinic.
And yet you can see the quote from the book of Acts that i posted. The very fact that this was written of by a non-Jewish Christian shows just how much the Apostles abided by and revered the teachings of the Rabbis. Just as Iesus abided by and revered the teachings of the Rabbis.
quote:
(Joh 10:22 KJV) And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
They waited until Sukkot to register as they had all year to register.
Mary went into labor at Bethlehem which caused the fulfillment of
Scripture. They had booths to stay in. There was no hotels then.
Mary had seven days of purification and Jesus was circumcised the
8th day. The facts add up, but our traditions don't.
And yet where was Iesus born ? The city of David is the city of Jerusalem according to the bible of Iesus.
quote:
(Luk 2:11 KJV) For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 3/26/2009 11:54:31 AM
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Lapidoth
Posts: 5591
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: OKLAHOMA
Status: offline
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Jesus was born in Bethlehem.
Which was "one" of the called city of David.
matthew 2:1
Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod
the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem.
THE PROPHECY TO BE FULFILLED
Micah 5:2
But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among
the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth
unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have
been from of old, from everlasting.
You can look at any map and see Bethlehem isn't very far from Jerusalem.
The entire nation isn't any wider than an hours drive from here to the
nearest big town. It's a given it may take longer on the back of a donkey. lol.
Matthew 5
5:21 "you heard that it was said" rabbinical
5:26 "truly I say to you" Torah
5:27 "you heard that it was said" rabbinical
5:28 "but I am saying" Torah
5:31 "and it was said" rabbinical
5:32 "but I am saying to you" Torah
5:33 "again you heard that it was said" rabbinical
5:34 "but I say to you" Torah
5:17 "I did not come to annul but to properly teach,
for the Torah to be obeyed as it should be"
All of us can pull verses to prove our own pet doctrines.
But we have to find out what the Scriptures actually say.
eisegesis vs. exegesis
< Message edited by Lapidoth -- 3/26/2009 12:27:53 PM >
_____________________________
Why does He keep quoting Torah? Doesn't He know He's about to abolish it?
http://www.tedpearce.com/Videos/TheForgottenpeople.html
BARUCH HABA BASHEM YAHUAH
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