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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/3/2009 5:34:57 PM
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SpongeBlog
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Bluethread
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
There is only one "rule" and/or "mindset" and that's God's.
It is written.......................................period.
Our interpretations are all over the board.
Jews and Gentiles alike.
Not just over Pesach, but regarding many things that are not spelled out directly in the Scriptures. I am glad you and others have not written these subjects off just because they don't fit into some simplistic theological scheme.
Contrary to what you think, these subjects have not been written off by the Church. Protestant, non-literal law keeping Churches are studying and enjoying the illustrations of Passover and the Feast of Leaven at this time of year, too. We just know they are no longer required to be fulfilled literally, and that God's blessings are not contingent on the performance of the OT worship requirements.
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/3/2009 7:12:54 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2927
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quote:
ORIGINAL: C.D.
Do you think that Passover is an everlasting celebration to be kept in obedience to God for all Christians?
If so why?
If not why not?
Whether it is for "christians" or not depends one how one defines that term. Let's look at what Adonai says, (Exodus 23:15)
"Celebrate the Feast of Unleavened Bread; for seven days eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you. Do this at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in that month you came out of Egypt. "No one is to appear before me empty-handed."
If one does not consider themselves as one of those who has been delivered from eygpt, does not care to be reminded of this event or does not care if one's children understand the full meaning of the Sacrifice, then I would say to that one, please do not observe Pesach. As Paul tells us, (1 Corinthians 11:27) "Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord."
However, if one does recognize that Adonai has redeemed them and set them apart to be one of His chosen people and one wishes to impart this message to one's children, there is no other event in the Scriptures that imparts this knowledge. Many have built up rabbinic practices centered around the death, burial and resurrection that explain these things in some sort of catecism or confirmation exercise. However, none of these things are required by the Scriptures and even if they were, without the knowledge imparted at Pesach, they are either too general, impersonal or conceptually complicated for a child to understand.
Pesach is designed to impart the founding principles of the Scriptures in a manner that is easily understandable to everyone. Even if one were to reject the various rabbinic Sedur and were to simply read the the account in the manner prescribed in the Scriptures, one experiences not only a recounting of the events, but also reinacts those events, making one an integral part of the story.
Admittedly this is all symbolic, but, I am pretty sure, those who reject the observation of Pesach for those reasons insist on having their children memorize the multiplication tables. If a knowledge of the particulars of multiplication are important, how much more valuable is an understanding of the basic principles of our faith.
< Message edited by Bluethread -- 4/3/2009 7:19:33 PM >
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/3/2009 8:26:06 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
quote:
ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod
For, you see, I use this time of year, every year, to meditate and ponder on Christ's sufferings for me. It brings me back to focus on Him and all He has done for us. I go through those last days with Him that He was here on earth.
All of Chrisitianity is doing that with you, Cherished, even if some call it 'Easter'. Don't you agree?
No...I don't agree. I have been focusing on Passover and the sufferings of Christ...You might want to look again at the title of the thread. I mentioned nothing of the resurrection or 'Easter'... And so, you are off topic when you bring it up...
Where is the focus on the Cross, SpongeBlog? Where is the focus on Christ's sufferings? Do you see one thread on these forums that is focusing on Christ on the Cross? I think there might be one in the first folder.
How many on these boards go to a "Good Friday" service or a Passover service? How many on these boards ponder the "Lamb slain from the foundation of the world"?
Oh, I am certain there are some....I know there are some that do and oh, how pleased the Holy Spirit is....and oh, how I love them....
_____________________________
For...Through His suffering, I am free!!!
~ The Power of the Cross ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwzt9jRUPNg
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/3/2009 9:00:26 PM
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SpongeBlog
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Well you obvously do think God's best is reserved for those who worship him according to the old covenant rules. But you have the right and privelege to believe that and openly express it in this forum. But you do know that this is a public forum where everyone can post their opinions and be respected according to the TOS.
If you aren't open to the concept of public participation and the risk of reading things you don't like you should probably carry this conversation on in a PM. I don't think you have the authority or the right to limit the participation of this thread to only that which doesn't bother you. It's only fair, Cherished. Can I shout you down to quiet your opinion about Passover that I don't like?
_____________________________
"For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." (Romans 14:17,18)
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/3/2009 9:02:59 PM
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LBolt
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How did my name come up in this? LOL!
Cherished, you have a blessed Passover and I pray you see in a small nutshell the price that was paid for our great salvation and that you continue to wax strong in your faith!
Shalom!
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/3/2009 9:10:10 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SpongeBlog
Well you obvously do think God's best is reserved for those who worship him according to the old covenant rules.
As in the past, SpongeBlog, so now, you have misinterpreted me and misrepresented me.
Nothing could be further from the truth...
But, be that as it may...if that makes you feel superior...so be it....
Your posts greatly sadden me........
_____________________________
For...Through His suffering, I am free!!!
~ The Power of the Cross ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwzt9jRUPNg
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/3/2009 9:14:51 PM
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CherishedbyGod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
How did my name come up in this? LOL!
Cherished, you have a blessed Passover and I pray you see in a small nutshell the price that was paid for our great salvation and that you continue to wax strong in your faith!
Shalom!
Bless you for that!!! The same to (((you)))
Thank you for your participation 
I have enjoyed the thread....
_____________________________
For...Through His suffering, I am free!!!
~ The Power of the Cross ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwzt9jRUPNg
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/3/2009 11:25:13 PM
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Ps103
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
Please keep this thread on the topic of the OP--which is the day the crucifixion took place.
Please take the other discussion, about who should celebrate what and how, to our annual Spring Free-for-all HERE.
Thanks!
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/5/2009 8:25:56 PM
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LBolt
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quote:
Is Thursday, Passover, Nisan 14?
It's Wednesday, April 8 at sundown.
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Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/5/2009 9:19:21 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 1622
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
quote:
Is Thursday, Passover, Nisan 14?
It's Wednesday, April 8 at sundown.
Thank you!
_____________________________
For...Through His suffering, I am free!!!
~ The Power of the Cross ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwzt9jRUPNg
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/5/2009 11:05:06 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
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Hi All
Where are the verses that shows resurrection was explicitly on the first day of the modern week?
TIA
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/5/2009 11:37:54 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bgwill3
quote:
ORIGINAL: Lapidoth
Matt. 28:1 KJV
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward
the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to
to see the sepulchre.
[NASB]
now late on the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the
first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
The "dawning of a new day" is at "twiligt as it is getting dark."
Not the first light in the morning.
The Sabbath (weekly) ended at sundown, and the two Marys came to look
at the gravesite after the Sabbath ended. Jesus had already risen.
He rose on the third day, on the Sabbath. [Abib 17]
Parallel passages give us a "very early in the morning" explanation as to when exactly the women came to the tomb.
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. (Luke 24:1)
And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:2)
I am not certain how these can be construed to fit with your timeline, which seems to indicate that the women came just after the setting of the sun (which was reckoned the first day of the week by Jews, but not by Romans/Greeks).
Hi guys
i have read that the translation of the word week from greek is wrong because in greek it meant sabbath?
Strong's Number: 4521 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
savbbaton of Hebrew origin (07676)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Sabbaton 7:1,989
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
sab'-bat-on
Is it meant to describe our modern week or it meant to refer to the sabbath?
One writer wrote this:
quote:
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (Matthew 28:1).
And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:2).
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Mark 16:9).
Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.(Luke 24:1).
The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. (John 20:1)
Should be interpreted as
quote:
In the end of the sabbaths, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the sabbaths, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (Matthew 28:1).
And very early in the morning the first of the sabbaths, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun. (Mark 16:2).
Now when Jesus was risen early the first of the sabbaths, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Mark 16:9).
Now upon the first of the sabbaths, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.(Luke 24:1).
The first of the sabbaths cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. (John 20:1)
i suppose he meant there were TWO sabbaths, the high sabbath of the Unleaven feast and the 7day sabbath.
What say you?
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Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/6/2009 1:10:18 AM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
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quote:
i suppose he meant there were TWO sabbaths, the high sabbath of the Unleaven feast and the 7day sabbath.
That's exactly what it means IMO..
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/6/2009 8:35:24 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3812
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97quote:
i suppose he meant there were TWO sabbaths, the high sabbath of the Unleaven feast and the 7day sabbath. That's exactly what it means IMO.. That there was confusion about that is certain. During that time, the Pharasees and the Saduccees differed on it as well, resulting in a discrepancy on when Yom haBikkurim (day of first fruits) was celebrated; either the 2nd day of Unleavened Bread (pharasees) or what we would call "sunday" of that week (saduccees).
The difference was how it was used in this passage, counting to the day of Shavuot/Pentecost:
Lev 23:15 'You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths.
Lev 23:16 'You shall count fifty days to the day after the seventh sabbath; then you shall present a new grain offering to the LORD.
So was it the day after the 7th Saturday sabbath or the day after 7 complete periods of 7 days? The Hebrew words for week, sabbath and 7 are all very close. That phrase could also be properly (perhaps more literally) rendered "after seven sevens."
So in the Mark text, it really could go either way.
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/6/2009 10:10:34 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2233
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
i suppose he meant there were TWO sabbaths, the high sabbath of the Unleaven feast and the 7day sabbath.
That's exactly what it means IMO..
Bob
Greetings
Try this out...
We have
The prep for the Passover 10th to the 14th
Then
The First day of UB on the 15th
In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.
6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
We have
The prep for the Passover 10th to the 14th
Then
The First day of UB on the 15th
Then
The 7th day Sabbath 16th
= 3 Sabbaths within 1 week = 4 days remaining
Let me stretch you mind for a moment and answer this question..
First you do know the meaning and the requirements of the feast of unleavened bread.. correct?
Which is simply to put away leaven (sin) out of our house(s)
Since Jesus had to fulfill that prophetic ceremonial requirements of the Passover lamb and unleavened bread according to Gods instructions given to Moses.....
At what point did He give ..."the disciples"... unleavened bread...
In the evening before the crucifixion?
.....Or the evening “After” the crucifixion on the first day of unleavened bread?
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 4/6/2009 10:40:27 AM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/6/2009 12:47:26 PM
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LBolt
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Hey, LG and Bob97
Based upon the Quick Phase Pro softare, this is taking into account that I changed the longitude and latitude location degrees and the time zone differential to that of Temple Mount, Jerusalem. If our calender were to be in used then, on Wednesday, March 8 the year 30 was a full moon.
On April 6, the year 30 the full moon would have occured on a Thursday according to our naming of the days of the week.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/6/2009 12:56:58 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2233
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LBolt
Hey, LG and Bob97
Based upon the Quick Phase Pro software, this is taking into account that I changed the longitude and latitude location degrees and the time zone differential to that of Temple Mount, Jerusalem. If our calendar were to be in used then, on Wednesday, March 8 the year 30 was a full moon.
On April 6, the year 30 the full moon would have occurred on a Thursday according to our naming of the days of the week.
Does the software offer in how many years or intervals ... that pattern would repeat itself again?
Like for example.. Every 3 , 4, 20 30 years...
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/6/2009 2:28:10 PM
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LBolt
Posts: 797
Joined: 11/30/2007
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As far as every April 6... here's a full moon on a Wednesday? No.
But on April 6... Here's a list of 10 dates starting with the year 25
1. Apr 6 26 03:23 (Sat)
2. Apr 6 45 00:13 (Tue)
3. Apr 6 110 22:59 (Sat)
4. Apr 6 129 11:15 (Tue)
5. Apr 6 148 07:25 (Fri)
6. Apr 6 205 23:47 (Sat)
7. Apr 6 224 08:56 (Tue)
8. Apr 6 243 16:34 (Thu)
9. Apr 6 262 06:35 (Sun)
10. Apr 6 281 04:06 (Wed
I don't see the intervals, that would be neat to know. We are going to have to study His word and trust the leading of Yah to have where He we should be, when we should be there.
Now, if the crucifixition year is more toward the March-April of 33, then March 4 is plausible, which is a Wednesday and a full moon.
_____________________________
Wisdom is the principle thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding...she shall give to thine head an ornament of grace..---Proverbs 4:7
www.tatepublishing.com/bookstore/book.php?w=978-1-60604-743-9
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/6/2009 3:34:53 PM
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bob97
Posts: 2252
Joined: 6/24/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
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quote:
Now, if the crucifixition year is more toward the March-April of 33, then March 4 is plausible, which is a Wednesday and a full moon.
LBolt...your calendar shows a Nisan 14 on Wednesday? That's good because 33 would be perfect for the decree to rebuild to have been given in 444BC.
The only date I can get to work on my calender is 30 for a Nisan 14 to occur on a Wednesday.
Bob
_____________________________
The LORD clears the road for me!
The LORD is my high ridge, my stronghold, my deliverer!
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/6/2009 4:26:37 PM
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Bluethread
Posts: 2927
Joined: 11/8/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bob97
quote:
Now, if the crucifixition year is more toward the March-April of 33, then March 4 is plausible, which is a Wednesday and a full moon.
LBolt...your calendar shows a Nisan 14 on Wednesday? That's good because 33 would be perfect for the decree to rebuild to have been given in 444BC.
The only date I can get to work on my calender is 30 for a Nisan 14 to occur on a Wednesday.
Bob
This throws us back into the Gregorian calculation error and the one yr/three yr ministry controversies.
_____________________________
"Show me wherein I have errored and I will hold my tongue." Iyov(Job)
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/6/2009 7:36:43 PM
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CherishedbyGod
Posts: 1622
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
The prep for the Passover 10th to the 14th
And the lamb was kept for those four days to make certain it had no blemish, right? It was under scrutiny during that time?
And Jesus, the Lamb of God was under hostile scrutiny while here...And then Pilate said "I find no fault in Him".
_____________________________
For...Through His suffering, I am free!!!
~ The Power of the Cross ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nwzt9jRUPNg
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RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover - 4/6/2009 8:36:38 PM
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prophet
Posts: 689
Joined: 4/19/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
Greetings
Try this out...
We have
The prep for the Passover 10th to the 14th
Then
The First day of UB on the 15th
In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.
6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
We have
The prep for the Passover 10th to the 14th
Then
The First day of UB on the 15th
Then
The 7th day Sabbath 16th
= 3 Sabbaths within 1 week = 4 days remaining
Let me stretch you mind for a moment and answer this question..
First you do know the meaning and the requirements of the feast of unleavened bread.. correct?
Which is simply to put away leaven (sin) out of our house(s)
Since Jesus had to fulfill that prophetic ceremonial requirements of the Passover lamb and unleavened bread according to Gods instructions given to Moses.....
At what point did He give ..."the disciples"... unleavened bread...
In the evening before the crucifixion?
.....Or the evening “After” the crucifixion on the first day of unleavened bread?
LG
Shalom
Wonder what you guys make of this...i tend to agree with this....Jesus didnt celebrate the Passover. Otherwise He cannot be the Passover scarifice.
quote:
The Bible tells us that Jesus died on the eve of the Passover, on the day that Passover meal would be eaten after sunset.
"The Feast of Unleavened Bread" (or "Passover"), as the name suggests, is a meal which features bread that is made without yeast. The dietary regulations for the meal (eating nothing made with yeast) comes directly from the Old Testament (Exodus 12:1-20).
When we look at the text of the New Testament, we find that the Greek word for unleavened bread is 'azymos'. This is the word used in Luke 22.1, Mark, and in Matthew 26.17.
The Greek word for regular bread (leavened with yeast) is 'artos'. All of the Gospel accounts, including Mark, agree that Jesus and His disciples ate artos (bread with yeast) at the last supper.. "While they were eating, Jesus took bread [artos], gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying Take it; this is my body." Mark 14:22. Therefore, this meal was not a Passover meal since it would be unthinkable for Jesus and His disciples to eat something that God had commanded them not to eat (bread with yeast - artos), instead of eating what they were commanded to eat (unleavened bread - azymos).
Another piece of evidence that proves that this meal was eaten on the day before Passover, is. Luke 22:15-16: And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer: For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. Jesus made the Last Supper a "virtual" Passover meal (but not an actual one).This was His last chance to share fellowship with his disciples before His death.
_____________________________
Create in me a Clean Heart, O Lord.
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. Lately, I think it would be wise for me to stay away from the threads 
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