Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (Full Version)

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CherishedbyGod -> Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/3/2009 1:49:06 PM)

This year Passover falls on the Thursday before "Good" Friday. Many of us think our Lord was crucified on Thursday and not on Friday.

But that is not what this thread is about, acutally. I am curious as to whether Christians can know for certain when our Lord was crucified (whether it be Thursday or Firday) according to when Passover falls?

My pastor says yes while I have heard others say no because we go by two different calanders.

Confused by this post? So am I [:D]

Moderator...I was not certain where to start this thread. Hope this is alright...



DaveW -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/3/2009 2:30:51 PM)

It is not an easy calculation. There have been threads every year and all anyone can offer is their best guess.

Yes we are dealing with different calendars; at that time it was the Augustinian revision of the Julian Calendar instituted by Julius Ceasar, modified by his nephew Augustus. This is solar based. Each month had a fixed number of days and 12 months completed a year. THis was changed to our current form in the 1590s by Pope Gregory.

The Pharasees had a calendar and the Sadducees had a slightly different calendar, both of which were lunar. The first day of each month was on the dark of the moon (new moon) and since the moon cycles do not line up with an even number of days or the solar cycle of seasons, months varied in length and leap months were added. At that time it was all done by observation. You did not know what day was the first of the month until it was announced.

That was changed in the middle ages to a fixed format due to better astronomical calculations. Even Jewish scholars have no way of figuring what day was what 2000 years ago and they have studied it out for centuries. They can give a ball park but that is it.

Ok - so now you have the calendar problem.

The next fly in the ointment is the fact that while the last supper is called a "passover," it seems to have been eaten BEFORE passover. Passover starts at dusk on the 14th of the month of Abib/Nissan and at sundown it is then the 15th. That means it is ALWAYS a full moon. If passover had actually started, the guess that Jesus had sent Judas to buy more bread would have been nonsensical since all merchants would have to be closed for the holiday. But in ancient Jewish writings we find that some did indeed eat a seder meal on the eve of the 13th into the 14th. It could not have included the Pesach Lamb which was slaughtered in the Temple the whole day of the 14th. But we find no reference to Lamb, only the bread and wine.

And the other issue messing up the calculation is how long was HE in the grave? Some texts say he was raised on the 3rd day. Other texts say He was in the grave 3 days and nights. Does that mean that He had to be buried for a full 72 hrs? or does a part of a day count for a "day" or "night?" What time was He raised? He was seen early Sunday at sunrise but could have been up hours earlier. We do know he was laid to rest at sundown.

Yeah - it can be confusing.



Lapidoth -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/3/2009 4:14:34 PM)

"Unleavened Bread" is always on the same day.
Abib 15-21..................lol.

We Roman-Graeco celebrate on a "day."
Like "thanksgiving" etc.

Christmas is always Dec. 25.
And Hanakkuh is always Kislev 25.

Personally, If I were keeping it to the letter,
I would keep it on Abib 15 regardless if it were
a Thursday, Friday, etc.

It was Wednesday by the way..............LOL



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/3/2009 5:12:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

It was Wednesday by the way..............LOL


Only from you, bro [:D]

Thank you both! I think I probably was the one that started the thread last year, Dave [;)]

Well, you both have given me the answer I need. I will just go to church or syngogue every day of the month to make certain I cover it [:D]



Lahry -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/3/2009 5:46:53 PM)

Check out this link. Tell us what you think...

http://focusonjerusalem.com/thedayJesusdied.html



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/3/2009 6:24:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lahry

Check out this link. Tell us what you think...

http://focusonjerusalem.com/thedayJesusdied.html


Thank you for that! I'll read it a little later. Haven't heard of him in quite awhile....



LoyalGypsy -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/3/2009 6:44:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CherishedbyGod

This year Passover falls on the Thursday before "Good" Friday. Many of us think our Lord was crucified on Thursday and not on Friday.

But that is not what this thread is about, actually. I am curious as to whether Christians can know for certain when our Lord was crucified (whether it be Thursday or Firday) according to when Passover falls?

My pastor says yes while I have heard others say no because we go by two different calendars.

Confused by this post? So am I [:D]






Greetings


quote:

My pastor says yes while I have heard others say no because we go by two different calendars.


Actually the calendars do not outweigh the principals

The definition of the 3 days in the belly of the earth is a reference to Jesus work through eternity and works these principals here below and is seen throughout the NT prophecies …Including Matthew 27:50-56 and 1Th 4:16


Day 1
24 Hrs
He was crucified and buried “Before sundown” on the 1st day and that covered the OT saints

Day 2
24 Hrs
The second day covers the day we are now in....so when Jesus was raised the first resurrection of the first advent fulfilled the third day and the first day

Day 3
24 Hrs
Covers the time to come...

Jesus had to free the slaves from the past ...from the present ...and in the future

Re 1:8 - Show Context
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, "the Beginning and the End," ....says the Lord,
"who is”
Day 2 = is the 24 hours = the second day and covers the day "we are now in" His resurrection

Re 1:8 - Show Context
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, "the Beginning and the End," ....says the Lord,
and
“who was”
Day 1
= is the 24 Hrs of the day when He was crucified and buried “Before sundown” on the 1st day and that covered the OT saints
52 and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised; 53 and coming out of the graves after His resurrection,
Re 1:8 - Show Context
"I am the Alpha and the Omega, "the Beginning and the End," ....says the Lord,
and
“who is to come”,
Day 3 = the 24 Hrs or the time that is to come
John 14:3

And is the reason why the order is written in the way it is written …
"who is”, “who was”, “who is to come”,
= The Almighty."



….. and is why Jesus in Re 1:8 did not begin with saying this here….
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End," says the Lord, "who was …

If He had said it that way, "who was”…
Then once the OT Saints were raised, there would have been no other



LG



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/3/2009 10:38:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lahry

Check out this link. Tell us what you think...

http://focusonjerusalem.com/thedayJesusdied.html


It looked awesome....I think I might go through it again, with my Bible and follow along with the Scriptures.

My heart thrilled with joy as I followed along reading it.



bob97 -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/4/2009 12:27:34 AM)

The event was Wednesday 30AD.

Bob



Lapidoth -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/5/2009 12:28:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

The event was Wednesday 30AD.

Bob



ROFL.....................I'm not the only one.
Thanks Bob..........lol.
I haven't decided concretely which year. lol.

I enjoyed that article.
But the different opinions come from the
way that we tweek the events.

I've gone over the events, and though
the tomb is found empty on Sunday, I
find no where that it says Jesus rose on Sunday.

The real fact is, that Jesus is the RESURRECTION
and the LIFE. So He did in fact rise from the dead.

Without that, we are lost in our sins.



Lapidoth -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/5/2009 12:31:12 PM)

quote:

I think I probably was the one that started the thread last year


LOL............I didn't realize this was the "annual" Ishtar thread. [:)]



Eutychus -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/5/2009 12:49:27 PM)

Wouldn't the year be closer to 33AD?



rcjames -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/5/2009 1:14:37 PM)

IJf the Sabbath is on a Saturday; and Scriptures says they took His body to the tomb the day before Sabbath; then the cruxifiction was on friday morning.

Thanks
RC



DaveW -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/5/2009 1:30:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

If the Sabbath is on a Saturday; and Scriptures says they took His body to the tomb the day before Sabbath; then the cruxifiction was on friday morning.
Yes, Saturday is the sabbath. But so is the Day of Passover. So if Passover starts on Wednesday, then both Wednesday and Saturday are sabbaths, and both Tuesday and Friday are the "Day of Preparation."

That is one of the reasons the Sadducees and Pharasees had different calendars; the pharasees started counting to Shavuot/Pentecost the second day of Unleavened bread while the sadducees started on the Sunday of passover week.



Bluethread -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/5/2009 2:01:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eutychus

Wouldn't the year be closer to 33AD?


That depends on whether you believe in the 1yr or the 3yr ministry. The fact that we have four accounts creates some confusion in this regard. Plus you must accept that the Gregorian calculation is correct.

Lapidoth:

I also believe in the Wednesday 3pm Sacrifice and the Havdallah(end of Shabbat) resurrection. There are still some thousand of us who have not bowed the knee. [:D]

I just realized, isn't Wednesday 3pm a Paul Simon song. Not the same subject matter however.



CherishedbyGod -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/5/2009 2:19:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bluethread

I also believe in the Wednesday 3pm Sacrifice and the Havdallah(end of Shabbat) resurrection. There are still some thousand of us who have not bowed the knee. [:D]



Well, ya'll may convert RC and me yet [;)]

And Dave has so much knowledge on the subject he sets my head a-spinning [:D]



Lapidoth -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/5/2009 2:41:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

IJf the Sabbath is on a Saturday; and Scriptures says they took His body to the tomb the day before Sabbath; then the cruxifiction was on friday morning.

Thanks
RC


Before I understood the "reckoning of time"
laid out in the OT, I also thought Saturday
everytime I saw the word sabbath.

The first day and the last day of Unleavened Bread,
and the first day and the last day of Tabernacles is
a "sabbath." Not the weekly Sabbath, but the
Feast Sabbath.

Our Greek teachings left us out on so many details.



bob97 -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/5/2009 7:29:03 PM)

quote:

I haven't decided concretely which year. lol.


30AD was the only day that Nisan 14 fell on a Wednesday during that period.

14th of Nisan dates:
27 = Wednesday
28 = Monday
29 = Saturday
30 = Wednesday
31 = Monday
32 = Monday
33 = Friday
34 = Monday
35 = Monday

Bob



Bluethread -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/5/2009 7:40:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

quote:

I haven't decided concretely which year. lol.


30AD was the only day that Nisan 14 fell on a Wednesday during that period.

14th of Nisan dates:
27 = Wednesday
28 = Monday
29 = Saturday
30 = Wednesday
31 = Monday
32 = Monday
33 = Friday
34 = Monday
35 = Monday

Bob


Given that the gregorian calander has been argued to be off by up to 3 years, this lines up pretty well for both the one and three year interpretations.



bob97 -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/5/2009 8:09:35 PM)

quote:

Given that the gregorian calander has been argued to be off by up to 3 years, this lines up pretty well for both the one and three year interpretations.



Well you could be correct I'm not intelligent enough to argue with you about it.

Here is the date calculator I use which I deem pretty well done.

http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?year=35&country=34

Bob



DaveW -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/6/2009 6:34:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob97

30AD was the only day that Nisan 14 fell on a Wednesday during that period.
That list assumes a LOT.

Even Jewish scholars who intimately understand the Jewish calendar practices cannot agree on how things were counted then as it was all based on physical observation. If it was a cloudy night and the new moon could not be seen, the first of the month would be pushed off to the next day.



rcjames -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/6/2009 9:48:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lapidoth

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

IJf the Sabbath is on a Saturday; and Scriptures says they took His body to the tomb the day before Sabbath; then the cruxifiction was on friday morning.

Thanks
RC


Before I understood the "reckoning of time"
laid out in the OT, I also thought Saturday
everytime I saw the word sabbath.

The first day and the last day of Unleavened Bread,
and the first day and the last day of Tabernacles is
a "sabbath." Not the weekly Sabbath, but the
Feast Sabbath.

Our Greek teachings left us out on so many details.


Scripture point out that they took down the body on the day of preparation (day before a Sabbath), the women rested on the Sabbath; then the next day they went to the tomb and Scripture says the day they went to the tomb was the first day of the week.

First day of the week is Sunday.

The day before that (Sabbath) would be Saturday.

The day before that Sabbath (the day of preparation; the day they took the body from the cross) would be Friday.

So unless Passover fell on a Saturday that year, then it was the weekly Sabbath that is referred to.

Thanks
RC



bob97 -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/6/2009 9:56:01 AM)

RC...this passage from John tells the whole story...it was the day before the High Sabbath, not the normal sabbath.

Joh 19:31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was a high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Bob



bob97 -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/6/2009 9:57:39 AM)

quote:

Even Jewish scholars who intimately understand the Jewish calendar practices cannot agree on how things were counted then as it was all based on physical observation. If it was a cloudy night and the new moon could not be seen, the first of the month would be pushed off to the next day.


Hi Dave...rest assured man might be uncertain but God had ordained the day and that is the exact day that the event occurred.

God Himself gave the instructions about the use of the preparation day to the Israelites before they reached Mount Sinai (Exodus 16:23). The Jews later considered this to be so important that they made sure each of the holy days, which are also Sabbaths, was preceded by a preparation day. Since the holy days can fall on any day of the week, the preparation day can fall on any day of the week as well.

Bob



DaveW -> RE: Christ's Crucifixion and Passover (3/6/2009 10:52:50 AM)

quote:

rest assured man might be uncertain but God had ordained the day and that is the exact day that the event occurred.
And you have chapter and verse for God ordaining a specific Wednesday in ad 30 and that we can know that date for certain?



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