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Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/16/2009 10:15:40 AM
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gmcspice
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This is something I have always wondered:
Does Jesus wash us one time OR
Does Jesus continuously wash us ?
I know Jesus died one time for ALL of our sins. But when it says for the perfecting of the saints (All who are saved are saints), is the perfecting Actually Jesus washing us continuously?
The word also says he will (future tense) present us as whites as snow, perfect.
Doesn't the perfecting happen here? I have been taught this.
That without Christ we can't do right or obey God in all things. This is what I believe.
So, I would really like to know if it is one or the other or maybe both?
Thanks and God bless!
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/16/2009 10:35:35 AM
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FolkSingerBlues
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I don't really have a bonified answer fro your question. I do have a comment though.
God's idea of perfection is apparently very different from our understanding of it. I don't think this side of heaven we'll ever accurately know EXACTLY how he does what he does.
I'm just glad he does it.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/16/2009 10:42:41 AM
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Eutychus
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I get from John 13 that we are bathed in Christ but that we need to bring daily contaminations to Him to keep fellowship strong.
Then He poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded.
So He came to Simon Peter. He said to Him, "Lord, do You wash my feet?"
Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter."
Peter said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head."
Jesus said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean..."
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/16/2009 11:37:07 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Does Jesus wash us one time OR
Does Jesus continuously wash us ? Why not both? The Wesleyan/Holiness understanding of Spirit cleansing is a one time crisis event of grace followed by life-long process of growing in grace. There is ample Biblical support for both concepts, gmcspice.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/16/2009 12:15:48 PM
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LCannon
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
Does Jesus wash us one time OR
Does Jesus continuously wash us ? Why not both? The Wesleyan/Holiness understanding of Spirit cleansing is a one time crisis event of grace followed by life-long process of growing in grace. There is ample Biblical support for both concepts, gmcspice.
In fact whether our tradition leans to Wesley, Holiness, Calvin, Anabaptism or any orthodoxy that claims Christ Jesus as the only Sovereign personal growth in the HS is the aim of sacrificial love and obedience.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/16/2009 2:29:10 PM
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gmcspice
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quote:
quote:
dmark
Does Jesus wash us one time OR
Does Jesus continuously wash us ?Why not both? The Wesleyan/Holiness understanding of Spirit cleansing is a one time crisis event of grace followed by life-long process of growing in grace. There is ample Biblical support for both concepts, gmcspice.
quote:
LCannon
In fact whether our tradition leans to Wesley, Holiness, Calvin, Anabaptism or any orthodoxy that claims Christ Jesus as the only Sovereign personal growth in the HS is the aim of sacrificial love and obedience.
I believe it is both too. Some people keep telling me that Christ doesn't wash us anymore once we have been cleansed. But I like this scripture from the Bible.
quote:
Eutychus
Then He poured water into the basin, and began to wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel with which He was girded.
So He came to Simon Peter. He said to Him, "Lord, do You wash my feet?"
Jesus answered and said to him, "What I do you do not realize now, but you will understand hereafter."
Peter said to Him, "Never shall You wash my feet!" Jesus answered him, "If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me."
Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, then wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head."
Jesus said to him, "He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean..."
This is an awesome example!
I was taught this in my churches discipleship class. I thought isn't it just wonderful what Christ does for us.
So we are saved from an "ALL OVER WASHING" one time. Then we get a continuous "foot washing" to help us continue growing and perfecting in Christ.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/16/2009 3:12:09 PM
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Lapidoth
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Salvation is a "mikveh" (baptism).
The Holy Spirit baptizes us in Jesus.
There are many "mikvehs" (baptisms).
We receive washing every time we read/study the Bible.
"The washing of the water of the Word."
I take a bath every week whether I need it or not..................lol
When I get soiled working, I take another bath.
I John 1:9
Every time we sin (get soiled) we can repent
and God "cleanses" us (washes) us of all unrighteousness.
So, it's a continual thing. Getting soiled isn't losing salvation.
We just hear so much "stuff" that people tries to say is biblical,
that we often lose sight of what the Bible really tells us about ourself.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/16/2009 7:48:17 PM
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Bluethread
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Just to add to what Lapidoth said. The purpose of the mikvah is to remind us that Adonai expects perfection, whether the fault is ours or created by circumstances beyond our control. So, we recieve a mikvah to identify ourselves with the school of Yeshua, we recieve a mikvah every time we have an infirmaty, we receive a mikvah to keep us from infecting others with our uncleanness and we receive a mikvah before we enter Adonai's presence. These are all officiated by our High Priest. The mikvot that we may perform here on earth are just reminders of these mikvot that are taking place in the heavenly rhelms continually.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/17/2009 4:06:27 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
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i figured there would be a one stop for sanctification which used to be such a controversial and divise topic last century ... anyways what i believe the Bible says ...
sanctification (holiness) = separation or setting apart. i believe one is sanctified when becoming saved (1 Corinthians 1:30 and 6:11). we also need to continue living a life separated from sin because it's God's will for us (2 Corinthians 7:1 and 1 Thessalonians 4:3). this would be called progressive sanctification and includes "growing in grace" (2 Peter 3:14) among other attributes.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/18/2009 7:01:06 AM
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Tagurit
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Don't you mean "justified" when becoming saved and sanctified through a growing relationship/surrendering to Christ?
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/18/2009 8:14:11 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Don't you mean "justified" when becoming saved and sanctified through a growing relationship/surrendering to Christ? Yes, Tagurit, that is one set of terms commonly used in some circles. Another is initial sanctification for becoming saved, entire sanctification for becoming fully surrendered and final sanctification for becoming glorified in Heaven. I'm no theologian, but I've read enough about Christian doctrine and seen enough posts from varying doctrinal traditions to realize that God works in many different ways to apply His grace uniquely to our lives and mere human terms are often inadequate to fully describe these various applications.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/18/2009 4:10:01 PM
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Lapidoth
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quote:
mere human terms are often inadequate to fully describe these various applications.
Amen.
the truth about God and His Word is that "it ain't that hard."
It's the mixing of man's ideas and thoughts that mess it up.............LOL
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/19/2009 11:02:41 AM
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gmcspice
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quote:
the truth about God and His Word is that "it ain't that hard."
It's the mixing of man's ideas and thoughts that mess it up.............LOL
I have always thought and believed this. Why can't people just let Christ love them and teach them?
We sometimes get in the way When God is working on us.
Trust and Love! We got to have this for the washing to take place right?
The more that is revealed to me by the Holy Spirit, the easier it gets.
Jesus did say his yoke is easy and burdens are light. Now, as a mature Christian, I am finding everyday, Jesus IS truth and every man/woman a liar.
I wanted to make sure about the foot washing because so many deny this part. They say Jesus saved and that's it. But that is really the Beginning.
At least, that is what I see when I read/study God's word.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/19/2009 11:08:00 AM
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drmark
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quote:
Now, as a mature Christian, I am finding everyday, Jesus IS truth and every man/woman a liar. Every lost man/woman is a liar. When we have the mind of Christ (1 Cor 2:16), then we are filled with His Truth as well!
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/19/2009 11:56:37 AM
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gmcspice
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Romans 3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."
dmark, that is what God's word says. It doesn't say every "lost man/woman" it says every man.
God's truth brother.
God is not a man that he should lie remember?
even Christians misuse the word of God sometimes. This is usually through misunderstanding.
So, I was quoting the Bible brother. I didn't mean to offend (if I did).
I mean look at the church bodies that actually believe they should really do foot washing?
Isn't Jesus demonstrating how the WORD washes us after we are in HIM?
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/20/2009 2:34:05 AM
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gradStudentNYC
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"But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
1 Corinthians 6:11
The Greek tense is such that, as I understand it, it is a one time action.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/20/2009 2:39:04 AM
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Bluethread
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
Romans 3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."
dmark, that is what God's word says. It doesn't say every "lost man/woman" it says every man.
God's truth brother.
God is not a man that he should lie remember?
even Christians misuse the word of God sometimes. This is usually through misunderstanding.
So, I was quoting the Bible brother. I didn't mean to offend (if I did).
I mean look at the church bodies that actually believe they should really do foot washing?
Isn't Jesus demonstrating how the WORD washes us after we are in HIM?
(Rom 3:3-4) "What if some did not have faith? Will their lack of faith nullify God's faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge.""
In context, Paul is not calling every man a liar. He is contrasting human docrine with the Scriptures. It is Adonai's grace that saves and not man's faith. Therefore, one need not have acts of faith, like circumcision, in order to be considered saved. The acts of faith are an outgrowth of Adonai's grace manifest in our lives. Therefore, what Paul is saying is, even if every man were to say one must show acts of faith to be saved, we should consider them all liars in that respect, because Adonai has said otherwise.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/20/2009 8:32:16 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gradStudentNYC
"But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
1 Corinthians 6:11
The Greek tense is such that, as I understand it, it is a one time action.
there is an initial sanctification as you quoted but did you look up the other scripture i cited to show there is an ongoing component as well. i'll quote it here
Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. 2 Corinthians 7:1 (New International Version)
It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; 1 Thessalonians 4:3 (New International Version)
So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 2 Peter 3:14
And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect[a] the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 3:18
We need to make an effort at this progressive sanctification as well, because without holiness no one will see the Lord. Hebrews 12:14 (New International Version)
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/20/2009 8:43:51 AM
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gmcspice
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Again bluethread, that was what I was talking about, Scriptures. That God's word is truth. Thank you for clarifying.
quote:
"But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
1 Corinthians 6:11
The Greek tense is such that, as I understand it, it is a one time action.
Yes we are washed in the blood one time.
But don't we have to walk in this world? Yes.
The foot washing was telling us that even though we are washed one time, we do need a touch up daily.
John 13
4He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
5After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.
6Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet?
7Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter.
8Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
11For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.
12So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
Ephesians 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word
Also, doesn't Paul say He sanctified himself daily?
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/20/2009 8:57:58 AM
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drmark
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quote:
quote:
Romans 3:4
Not at all! Let God be true, and every man a liar. As it is written: "So that you may be proved right when you speak and prevail when you judge."
dmark, that is what God's word says. It doesn't say every "lost man/woman" it says every man. In context, Paul is not calling every man a liar. He is contrasting human docrine with the Scriptures. It is Adonai's grace that saves and not man's faith. Therefore, one need not have acts of faith, like circumcision, in order to be considered saved. The acts of faith are an outgrowth of Adonai's grace manifest in our lives. Therefore, what Paul is saying is, even if every man were to say one must show acts of faith to be saved, we should consider them all liars in that respect, because Adonai has said otherwise. Thank you, Bluethread, for correcting gmc's misunderstanding of Romans 3. Context is crucial in a passage like this!
quote:
We need to make an effort at this progressive sanctification as well, because without holiness no one will see the Lord. Hebrews 12:14 (New International Version) Actually, the only "effort" we need do is allowing God to progressively continue His sanctification in us - Phil 1:6. It's always about His grace, iwfne, and never about our efforts!
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/20/2009 9:18:13 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
Actually, the only "effort" we need do is allowing God to progressively continue His sanctification in us - Phil 1:6. It's always about His grace, iwfne, and never about our efforts!
thank you for pointing that out, it was awkwardly written on my part, i re-edited it quickly as i didn't have complete sentence originally and then moved on to another thread ... yes we are not making the effort to sanctify anything ... the effort we need is in trying to live a holy life ...
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/20/2009 9:29:12 AM
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drmark
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quote:
thank you for pointing that out, it was awkwardly written on my part, i re-edited it quickly as i didn't have complete sentence originally and then moved on to another thread ... yes we are not making the effort to sanctify anything ... the effort we need is in trying to live a holy life ... No problem, iwfne. May I clarify further that the effort in living a holy life is not about trying to do holy, but rather submitting to the Holy Spirit for power and love to be holy. That's why I fervently believe that (entire) sanctification is both a one-time crisis event and the progressive walk in grace. At least that's how God has done and is doing it in my life.
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/20/2009 9:35:07 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
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quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
May I clarify further that the effort in living a holy life is not about trying to do holy, but rather submitting to the Holy Spirit for power and love to be holy.
yes - it's definately the Holy Spirit transforming us:
And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect[a] the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 3:18 (NIV)
however i still believe we need to allow Him to do so (which is why i used the word effort) ...
So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to have the Lord find you at peace and without spot or fault. 2 Peter 3:14 (ISV)
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/20/2009 10:37:42 AM
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drmark
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quote:
however i still believe we need to allow Him to do so (which is why i used the word effort) ...
So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to have the Lord find you at peace and without spot or fault. 2 Peter 3:14 (ISV) I could not agree more! I also like Paul's admonition to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil 2:12) as we live for Him continuously washed in Love.
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Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: Washed Once or continuously washed? - 3/25/2009 11:50:53 AM
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gmcspice
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I just wanted to come back and thank all those who answered my question and helped me to understand this in full.
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