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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/23/2009 12:36:59 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
ORIGINAL: praznhim
Interesting how we so closely associate our comfort with the musical style that we know...isn't it funny that we think SO MUCH of what we want when we GO TO WORSHIP God? Isn't what HE wants a little more important?The song "Heart of Worship"... if done prayerfully and with introduction of HOW the song came about (Matt Redman) would help the congregation see that the "new" style of worship and why the change it occuring is that worship really is ALL about Jesus!!! It is NOT about us and our comfort but what we are able to offer Him of our lives and hearts. I have a problem doing that song as a congregational worship piece. Our youth band does it as part of their gig, and the regular group used to.
The problem? It lyrically only applies if your congregation has turned music into an idol, which is easy to do but by no means universal. And then only until such time as the congregation has repented and moved on. Once that has happened, it no longer applies.
As musicians, especially if we pick song lists, is to carefully look at the lyric content to make sure:
1 - it is biblically sound
2 - it applies to where your congregation is RIGHT NOW.
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Avatar is my daughter Laura and SIL David on their wedding 9/20/09 ====================================
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/23/2009 1:48:56 PM
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momma_bee
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off-topic, but not really.
I (personally) would not want to see a lyrics only format because I can read music. When I see lyrics only, it is like reading a post without paragraph marks; I can do it, but I have to stop and think about it. If I'm thinking about what to sing I'm not thinking about what I'm singing. Poppa can't read music and I have asked him and he said that the music (notes) wasn't a distraction until recently when he started to play guitar and tried to read it.
We did the hymn of the month and the choir sang the hymn as a choral introit.
And, the why question sounds sarcastic, but WHY? What is motivating you? Teh answer will help you figure out the best mindset to approach this.
And, in my personal opinion, "Shine, Jesus Shine" should NEVER be played on an organ. It had to be said.
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/23/2009 6:23:23 PM
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praznhim
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Will be praying...the Lord is always so faithful to provide all that we really need when we are serving him...
I just picked "The Praise and Worship Fake Book" at the library; over 400 songs (Hal Leonard). Classics and some of my favs; like I worship You Almighty God and Only by Grace! (and my new fav; Lord, Reign in me)
I remember one church that I was baptized and served in for several years; was adding more contemporary praise songs and they did and probably still do SG and Hymns; they loved
Open my eyes Lord,
Give Thanks,
I love you Lord,
Jesus, Name above all names,
This is the day,
Amazing Love
We bring the sacrifice of praise
and
Majesty to name a few...
these were the only ones and these were S-L-O-W-L-Y brought into the worship by eliminating an hymn and/or SG alternatively so that there was very little feeling of "missing anything".
The change is hard and the flesh does not like the unfamiliar...praying that God's Holy Spirit will fill the place and give each heart a greater desire to love and worship Him...no matter what style of music is being played...
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/23/2009 8:59:22 PM
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momma_bee
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RC - emphasis on the word noise when I'm singing.... 
< Message edited by momma_bee -- 3/24/2009 5:46:56 AM >
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/24/2009 6:38:10 PM
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still4gvn
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IMO as an older person, the loud volume is more a problem than the style. Also, some contemporary songs I enjoy on the radio need a different arrangement in order to be sung by the average person. Of course, that applies to some of the oldies also. I do think sometimes the band is trying to recreate a hit song that was designed to a performance piece by professionals. A little tweaking might make them more singable. But like I said, I'm just old.
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/24/2009 11:00:34 PM
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29redballoons
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This is the way that most churches also see this situation...the same as the over all thread...as an age issue. Why is this do we think? I mean aren't all Christians able to praise and worship the Lord? This really does sadden me, because I for one have seen it to be this way also...I hope our older church members do not feel attacked. Like I said, this is a pastor led request, but one that I feel has been long over due and I very much agree...but please do not take this as a light decision...
still4given...do you sit at the front or back of the church? I am wondering due to the volume of the monitors...I think the back would be less loud.
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/25/2009 10:16:50 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
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Back may be less loud or not...depends on the acoustics of your church. If I hear complaints ( I rarely do...people usually talk to the pastor instead, go figure) about the sound, I ask them to move around the sanctuary over the next couple of weeks and try to find a place where the sound does not bother them: we have an odd sanctuary, and there are pockets where the sound gets concentrated, others where it has to little presence, etc. There is little or nothing I can do about that, but usually if people will follow that advice it will help them find the best spot for their own hearing issues.
shallbe
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has decided that the command against forsaking the assembling of ourselves together shall henceforth be considered satisfied when she wakes up each morning and finds that all her body parts are still assembled...
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/25/2009 10:38:55 AM
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stellaluna
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At my former church we used to hand out earplugs. For real.
We had two worship leaders: a man in his 50s and a man in his 20s. Every time the younger guy led worship, we would have a steady stream of older members complaining about how loud it was. Some would even make a point to stand in the foyer until worship was over. What they didn't know (or refused to believe) was that the level was kept in the same decibel range every single service, no matter who was leading. This was a job for the audio ops, of which I was one. And we actually had a meter next to the board to make sure we stayed in that range. So I must conclude that some of the problems boil down to spite and stubbornness.
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/25/2009 11:09:06 AM
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doinkdom
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sunshinesoprano
I don't understand why it has to be one or the other! 
Are the old hymns and SG now obselete because of the praise and worship choruses?
I won't make this a debate about contemporary music, but I will say that while some of it is AWESOME, some of it is mindless drivel that was nothing more than a hook and a sequencer.
Nevertheless, back to your question. My solution is a blend, and if you don't want half your church to leave or your seniors to leave after Sunday School, (who are your tithe base, by the way), a blend is the way to go.
It shouldn't be one or the other because both are good...and both have their own versions of drivel within...it's usually a matter of musical taste and catering to the majority.
The bolded section of the above post is just well...it's just sad because pastors and other staff people are held hostage to the "preferences" of this particular group. (This is not a dig at the poster, because the statement is a generalized statement about Christiandom.)
I often wonder how pastors preach the word in and out of season as boldly as we are admonished to do when Mr. Moneybags withholds his tithe because he got his toes stepped on.  I know it's not always, but when it's a looming threat...
anyways...another thread...
IMO...music must be gospel-centered, regardless of genre and you shouldn't have any issues.
Taking it slow is good advice, too.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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Cat & Dog Theology - 3/25/2009 11:14:43 AM
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TMeeks
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I would urge everyone leading any form of 'worship' to read the book called "Cat & Dog Theology". So much of what we claim is 'worship' is really an expression of our feelings rather than an expression of who God is.
As for moving from a traditional to a contemporary style of music, the congregation AND the leadership must have the wisdom and the skills to see the subtle differences in the way each are led. The difference is NOT just in the songs and song styles. It's also in the FLOW and pacing of the music experience. Often this is a big source of the lack of acceptance.
Finally, we have to recognize that the music styles address very different aspects of the totality of the person. Someone has observed that hymns ministered to the mind, gospel songs ministered to the emotions and contemporary music, the the heavy bass and drums, ministers to the body. You can FEEL the music differently. This PHYSICAL aspect can make those who have never engaged their bodies in worship feel very uncomfortable.
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RE: Cat & Dog Theology - 3/25/2009 11:23:18 AM
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doinkdom
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Concerns/questions about music in worship are also addressed by Bob Kauflin in his blog over at Worship Matters.
Concerning volume of the band, etc. he says, "the sound of the musicians shouldn’t consistently dominate or overpower the congregation. In the New Testament the predominant sound when the church gathers is the singing of the congregation (Eph. 5:19, Col. 3:16). They constitute the real worship team."
You might find some other answers or suggestions over there.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/25/2009 11:45:26 AM
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jn1010lf
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Hello 29redballoons
Why not use a variety of styles? Why not develop a wide array of instruments? Why not do some acapella music? Why not some ultra loud raucous praise music, as well was worship style?
For instance, I was in a church once that was ultra modern in it's music style. But on a Father's Day a girl did the country and western song "Daddy's hands." There wasn't a dry eye in the house.
I really think we limit God if we confine ourselves to one style of music.
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/25/2009 6:09:43 PM
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spt304
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As I stated before our music was changed to attract the younger people. Did the leaders even pray about what God desired? I don't know. I do know that there was a significant number of the congregation, wondering if they were a part of the congregation or if anyone cared about what they thought. The supporters of the church by their prayers, financial gift and attendance were treated as if they were not a part of the church and their opinions did not matter. Satan will use any means he can to divide a church, even worship leaders. As I also stated in our situation the very ones the music was changed to attract, later left taking several others with them.
My concern is how we go about the change and why we want to change the music. Change for change sake generally brings discord. That is not God's plan for the church. Do we consider the congregation or do WE decide that the music must be changed?
As others have said "What is our real purpose in changing the music?"
I am not saying that we must keep the "old hymns" or that we can not incorporate other types of music into the worship. BUT PLEASE Determine why you want to change the music. Who are we seeking to glorify, God or ourselves? Then include all of the congregation in the planning.
Generally it is those who do not agree with us, that we accuse of acting unchristian but could it be those of us who want the change.
I agree that volume is a factor. I know that my ears actually hurt after the "new style" of music was started but not before. They said that it was turned down as low as it could be. The determining factor was if the leader's sister got a headache or not. 
God bless you as you seek to Glorify Him
Phil
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/25/2009 9:29:36 PM
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deborlie
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As an older member, who once was a younger member.......and always loved music.
Changing church music seems to have been a continuing theme over my life time.
No one seems satisfied to leave things as they are. Everyone thinks they have a better idea and they are the first to think of it.
Stumbling over a 'new' song is not worship....and will break a worshipful mood.
Being an old fogy or is that old foggy? I've sometimes wondered if the worship service is the good place to introduce a new song. Maybe it's just a matter of timing.
I've heard some new songs I really like, and I am enthused that creating real worship music is not dead. At the same time, I cherish some of the old familiar songs that I can really get into and actually make it my prayer to God. Your resistance probably comes mostly from the older members. (It was when we were changing the music.) You have to think why. With the disabilities that come with age, some times the only thing they hear is the music in the whole service. The music may just be the only thing they can take home with them, the only means they have at worship. Take that away completely, you are displacing your older person. It wouldn't be hard for them to feel not apart of it anymore.
Being in charge of anothers worship experience is a heavy responsibility, truly multi faceted.
I don't envy your job.
There is one old song......do you remember it?
"Make new friends, but keep the old,
One is silver, the other is gold."
This would be my vote.
Wishing the very best.
BJ
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He's still working on me!
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/25/2009 9:48:10 PM
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Consecrated2God
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quote:
Stumbling over a 'new' song is not worship....and will break a worshipful mood.
The Bible does say to sing to the Lord a new song. I love hearing new songs--some of the old ones we've sung into the ground! While there's always room for the old ones, God has blessed us with creativity to continue to write and express our worship and new and fresh ways. Sometimes when I sing a song too long I tend to forget its meaning.
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"A faith that can be destroyed by suffering is not faith."--Richard Wurmbrand
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/25/2009 11:34:37 PM
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29redballoons
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I am listening. I am struggling, but I am listening. I know that change is never easy...but this is warfare. It is hard to remember that we on earth do not battle flesh and blood...
We have had a family leave. "music too loud" It really isn't too loud. I promise you we stand in all areas of the sanctuary making sure that it is blaring...
With all of your differences of opinions...please continue to remember us in prayer.
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Red
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 8:30:21 AM
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Eutychus
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quote:
ORIGINAL: spt304
...The supporters of the church by their prayers, financial gift and attendance were treated as if they were not a part of the church and their opinions did not matter. Satan will use any means he can to divide a church, even worship leaders...
Did you catch that?
Members who "give" of their prayers, offer a financial "gift" and bless others with their attendance feel they are owed special consideration. Followed by the statement that "Satan will use any means he can to divide a church."
Gifts with strings aren't gifts, they are the chains of a lender.
Why should any group within a church feel they deserve special consideration; is that church about them or Jesus and His Kingdom?
I agree, Satan will use any means he can to divide a church, including the "faithful" who feel special entitlement.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 9:42:54 AM
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Tomok
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From: Canada
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At least you have some music! My church (see my blog 'Change to informal services) are contemplating having no instruments / prepared music - only that which comes to mind!
I love my music and feel it enhances, not detracts from worship. It - the music - is not the focus - God is! As worship leaders or as worshippers in a congregation - our focus must be God-centered.
Why should the devil have all the good music? - was the call in the 60's. Well he sure hasn't now! There are some fantastic old and new songs/hymns that help us to center on Him.
I for one will struggle to be part of a non-instrumental/prepared worship service.
One of the blogs said go carefully - I would agree with that. You need to take the congregation with you - you don't want to be so far ahead that they can't see you or know in which direction you're heading.
Seek God and you will find Him.
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 10:35:30 AM
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spt304
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Forgive me if I sounded like the older people should be given "special" consideration, but neither should they be ignored. If they are beinging ignored then the people making the decisions are giving "special" consideration to attracting younger people.
The people did not give gifts with strings attached, but they give. But they are apart of the church also and should be included in the decisions of the leaders. As one of the leaders stated if the regular members did not like it they could go somewhere else. As it proved out the very persons who were given special consideration left the church after a short while as they said the church was not "spiritual enough for them". They wanted everyone to experience salvation the way they had, thus saying if you did not experience salvation the way they did you were not as spiritual. But that is another topic.
Yes it is all about God so then why should the younger people receive special consideration just to attract them. I thought the drawing of people to God was the work of the Holy Spirit, not by
our "gimmicks"
In a sentence PLEASE DO DO TREAT THE "OLDER" SAINTS AS IF THEY DO NOT MATTER.
I'm sorry if you do not understand what I am trying to communicate.
God bless you
Phil
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 11:39:45 AM
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Eutychus
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FWIW, Phil, I'm 57, seldom miss a service, and have more than tithed long before I joined my current church in 1986. I certainly have music preferences and dislike certain styles, but I don't expect to have a service centered around my age group.
Another thing, we who are the faithful will continue to be so even if the church changes. In fact, the only churches that don't change will die.
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I see your point to be PC (politically correct) Dave but I would rather error on the side of constant humility before God because there will always be someone who (including us) needs to be reminded (again) that JESUS is the one who is being worshipped. Only God knows where the "congregation is right now"...really. I think this applies to ALL churches; we should always evaluate our hearts and worship Him alone who is worthy. We truly only know what He allows us to know in our limited understanding. WORSHIP Him is my goal. Anyway. Anyhow. 
