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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 12:41:01 PM
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purejoy
Posts: 341
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 29redballoons
I am listening. I am struggling, but I am listening. I know that change is never easy...but this is warfare. It is hard to remember that we on earth do not battle flesh and blood...
We have had a family leave. "music too loud" It really isn't too loud. I promise you we stand in all areas of the sanctuary making sure that it is blaring...
With all of your differences of opinions...please continue to remember us in prayer.
(((((Red))))) Hang in there. I have been in your shoes, and it's so easy to take it personal or feel responsible. But you're right, it's not flesh and blood.
On a practical note, I do really like to mix traditional and contemporary. As many posters have said, there are good and bad about both. By mixing, I think it helps people to realize they both have something in common: worshiping and glorifying God through song. The traditionalists are less appalled at contemporary, and the contemporaries realize traditional can have a richness about it.
Some examples:
The Wonderful Cross
Amazing Grace (My Chains Are Gone)
Come Thou Long Expected Jesus & Come Now Is The Time To Worship
How Great Is Our God & How Great Thou Art
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 3:05:37 PM
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spt304
Posts: 10
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Sorry this is so long.
I guess I just can not make my position clear. PLEASE do not forsake the older people in the attemp to interest younger people in worship. As we get older our friends start going on to be with the Lord and our circle of friends gets smaller. Then the church changes the style and volume of music without the least bit of consideration or caring of what they are comfortable with in singing and praising God. So they feel like they belong to no one. Maybe if the leaders in the church do not want them then maybe God has no more use for them either.
NO their worship is not the only way. Can there not be a way to incorporate different music without destroying the older saintsand their style of worship? They do not want special consideration, they just want to know they and their style of worship are not being pushed out the door.
Yes the older saints will still be there, probably long after some of us are. I saw the pain when the inpression was given they were no longer important in the church.
Every saint of God is not like some I have encountered. "Well if they (the saints) are really Christian then it does not matter". Why is it so important to change the worship? THEY DO have feelings. If the style of music and volume are secondary to the worship of God Why are we so intent on changing their way of worship?
I will not continue my pleading for respect for the older saints of God as it seems that on this forum, if the older saints have a problem with the music, they are at fault and lacking Christian spirit not the people seeking change.
May God bless each of us as we too get older.
He will reply "I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me." Matthew 25:40
Phil
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 4:04:50 PM
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tz3
Posts: 567
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I beg your pardon. I was raised Catholic switched to Methodist and now attend an Interdenominational church so I have see the full range of music in my 41 years from soft or occapella to contemporary christian rock and my kids hip hop and rap music which is loud. None of it is wrong unless it is approched with the wrong attitude. I have seen old hymns dirged out wrong ie with a look at me performer attitude where the music was more about the person performing it than it was the word/meaning and heart/spirit behind it as often as I have seen and heard the new stuff treated equally as wrong. What it boils down to is the culture of the community, religion, and congregants. I think most pastors are ultra sensative to this most important element of worship because it ushers people into a time of reflection, praise and opens them up like soil being broken up to receive the seed which is the word of God. I don't think it matters what the music is; if it is not accomplishing this very essential task then there is something wrong. I don't know about your church and this is the first time I have ventured into this forum so I can't speek with familiarity here. However, I have noticed that if someone is feeling like an outsider it is more of an attitude issue than a worship issue unless the whole church is infected. But seeing as we don't have any control over other peoples attitudes only our own we can pray for ourselves and others and see where God leads us and who changes. Will God give us a new appreciation of the new way or will God hault the rapid changes and help those in positions of power and authority to find a middle ground? If God is able to work unseen in the book of Esther then I think he is big enough to help you with this. Have you tried praying about it?
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 4:51:07 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5526
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: The higher lowcountry
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quote:
ORIGINAL: spt304
Sorry this is so long.
I guess I just can not make my position clear. PLEASE do not forsake the older people in the attemp to interest younger people in worship. As we get older our friends start going on to be with the Lord and our circle of friends gets smaller. Then the church changes the style and volume of music without the least bit of consideration or caring of what they are comfortable with in singing and praising God. So they feel like they belong to no one. Maybe if the leaders in the church do not want them then maybe God has no more use for them either.
NO their worship is not the only way. Can there not be a way to incorporate different music without destroying the older saintsand their style of worship? They do not want special consideration, they just want to know they and their style of worship are not being pushed out the door.
Yes the older saints will still be there, probably long after some of us are. I saw the pain when the inpression was given they were no longer important in the church.
Every saint of God is not like some I have encountered. "Well if they (the saints) are really Christian then it does not matter". Why is it so important to change the worship? THEY DO have feelings. If the style of music and volume are secondary to the worship of God Why are we so intent on changing their way of worship?
I will not continue my pleading for respect for the older saints of God as it seems that on this forum, if the older saints have a problem with the music, they are at fault and lacking Christian spirit not the people seeking change.
May God bless each of us as we too get older.
He will reply "I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me." Matthew 25:40
Phil
{{{{Phil}}}}
Older saints may not feel important to their church...but they are certainly important to God and they are most certainly important to our church family. I certainly pray that the modern church remain biblical towards orphans and widows.
Change is not always bad...but it is usually not handled well by those initiating the change. Many times, the changes seem sudden because leadership has been making the changes "behind the scenes" for 2 weeks or 2 months, instead of including the body in the change process.
-Talk about change up front.
-Make small, consistent changes rather than one giant kaboom of a change.
-Be open for changes to the changes.
One of the things we've been a part of in the past is to get some good older gospel songs and set aside time every few weeks to sing them...I'll Fly Away and some of the ones that everybody knew growing up.
We did a sing-a-long at a cookout last summer using some of those songs.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 4:55:52 PM
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spt304
Posts: 10
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This happened several years ago. I just returned to the forum after several months of not participating. I sad for now I remember why I left. It seems that no matter what is said or engouragement I thought I was giving, I was always cross examined with "did you pray about it "
yes I did pray about it, my heart ached because the older saints were basically told they did not matter. They were accurate in their assessment, that they were not a part of the leaders' plans.
I can do without all the attacks I have received and the critical statements that the older saints were wrong. This may be a surprise to some of you, but church leaders can be out of God's will also. Just maybe the older saints were more in God's will than the church leaders.
So LONG
May God bless each of you with the wisdom to see all sides of a conflict.
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 5:08:37 PM
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hjemerson
Posts: 181
Joined: 3/4/2008
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Over the past 6 year I have watch many good worship leader let out to pasture! all over this subject, large churchs to small . all faiths . If you do not please the giver in the church your budget hurt fact! We my Hushabnd is the worship leader for over 24 yr off and on now FT service but in aPT church staff, We have all older I mean only two couple ina church ot 50 or so under age 50 ! us and pastor family Pastor and wife. The people said they want change to praise music because with out it the younger will come back ! proof the adult children of the adults that were raised in the church had said so and do not come. so ayear ago we started the one new song a month and us insert in the bullington! Cost is high to me every sunday to print and hand out but that what the adults want ! we have had a power point fund and just now got the projecter and I will be giving my second PC to work with it but already have heard the remarks! But the Pastor want it and most of the time if that what he want they will go for it! Next big deal will be the screen frist we only have a pull down we will hang in the bastist pool , or well that a driffernet story! Going slow yes, But following the Lords will is for sure the best, I have a friend that in her church the pastor preaches and the all the music is last !
For most part the music is part of the service and many time the Lord had lead my hushband to change a song and some told later that just what I needed , So solw and easy respect, expcet rebuttler but stand strong and be a leader even if it means some will have to change their opoins of the type of music,
The songs we sung in the 60/70 in youth are now added in the Book .Back then nobody would have even though" PASS IT ON" would still be in chucrh our adults dislike that soing! Just as in the world it all goes a round and can be used to reach other for HIM!
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 5:10:23 PM
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doinkdom
Posts: 5526
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From: The higher lowcountry
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spt304/Phil,
I certainly hope you don't think my post was belittling your concerns.
I was actually agreeing with you for the most part.
_____________________________
Rest assured, dear friends, that where your pleasure is, there your heart is.
- Charles Spurgeon
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 5:33:13 PM
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hjemerson
Posts: 181
Joined: 3/4/2008
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In many ways SPT304 I agree but even the older peopel have to remember when they did misc their grand parents did agree on, Yes it sad but in so many church (I been talking with at a conf,) most the church that do not change in some ways not just music the door are closing / that why so many of the feel good churches are growing. Why we try a mix but with out the youth /young familyies the door will close to many church and satan will be the winner. The sr sanit need to have a place be part of the hold church but not expect everythng their way just because of their age. Not all leadrer/sr are in the walk with GOd and has to be a agreement . Peace maker/ leader /not stop every thing because the did not get their way ,Yes manytimes they hold the money and klike to hold that over the leadership head ,(That is so wrong)
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 5:53:01 PM
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spt304
Posts: 10
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doinfdom: you posted as I was writing my post so it was not your post that I was refering to.
Why can't I get it across that the older saints did not necessary object to the changes but they objected to being view as nonpersons or that they are no longer part of the church. All they wanted was the acknowledgement that they were still a part of the church. They did not stop giving if they had the doors would have closed since most of the new younger people did not support the church financially.
All I am asking please do not forget that the older saints are a part of God's church also. If it were not for them we would not have very many churches today.
SO LONG
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 6:05:05 PM
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29redballoons
Posts: 479
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From: Georgia
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I am sorry but I do not see where the older saints are being ignored...actually the ones that left are not older.
We are doing well...but we do need your continued prayers.
_____________________________
Red
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 6:20:08 PM
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spt304
Posts: 10
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29redballons:
I was using a church I attended several years ago to illustrate what I have seen in several churches of how present church members are ignored when leaders get an idea.
I was not refering to your church. Sorry that is the way you saw it.
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 6:42:30 PM
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tz3
Posts: 567
Status: offline
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Just curious, does the church encourage the seniors to praticipate in leadership rolls?
and if so what rolls?
What is the average age of persons in those rolls?
Do they encourage the younger set to go to the seniors for wisdom and advice?
quote:
ORIGINAL: spt304
doinfdom: you posted as I was writing my post so it was not your post that I was refering to.
Why can't I get it across that the older saints did not necessary object to the changes but they objected to being view as nonpersons or that they are no longer part of the church. All they wanted was the acknowledgement that they were still a part of the church. They did not stop giving if they had the doors would have closed since most of the new younger people did not support the church financially.
All I am asking please do not forget that the older saints are a part of God's church also. If it were not for them we would not have very many churches today.
SO LONG
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 6:46:16 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1280
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Let me also add, there are folks who sing only hymns as they are judging the woman sitting next to them. Then there are folks who sing contemporary sonts who are judging the woman sitting next to them. Then you have the person who is just loving on God will singing both the hymns and the contemporary. Who do you think God is listening to?
kim
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 7:26:53 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1280
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have you ever heard of a woman named Vivien Hibbert? She says, and I quote:
quote:
It is impossible to really worship God
unless we have had a revelation of God.
Once we have had a revelation of Him,
I believe it is impossible not to worship.
Instead of worrying about the songs to use, instead pray that the Lord will give you a revelation of who He is. I attended one of Vivien's teachings at Karitos in Chicago last year and man, she knows how to worship. She led a worship team and she sang about Jesus being the King, then a Lover to the bride, and then a warrior against sin and the devil. She used the instruments in such a way to proclaim the King, the Lover and the warrior. It was like being in the throne room of God. WOW!! It changed the way I worship God. Stop worrying about what songs to sing, and just love Him through your words and songs. See Him as He really is, Shepherd, Conquor, Savior, King, God, etc. Once you reach this point, people won't care what you sing, b/c they will get swept up into who God is and how much they love Him.
It might not hurt to have some sort of bible study for your worship team to get them back to God instead of religious does and don'ts. Get back to the heart of Christ and it won't matter what you sing. :)))
kim
quote:
ORIGINAL: 29redballoons
This is the way that most churches also see this situation...the same as the over all thread...as an age issue. Why is this do we think? I mean aren't all Christians able to praise and worship the Lord? This really does sadden me, because I for one have seen it to be this way also...I hope our older church members do not feel attacked. Like I said, this is a pastor led request, but one that I feel has been long over due and I very much agree...but please do not take this as a light decision...
still4given...do you sit at the front or back of the church? I am wondering due to the volume of the monitors...I think the back would be less loud.
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/26/2009 11:13:41 PM
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29redballoons
Posts: 479
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Georgia
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quote:
It might not hurt to have some sort of bible study for your worship team to get them back to God instead of religious does and don'ts. Get back to the heart of Christ and it won't matter what you sing. :)))
I am kinda confused. From my posts, how did you determine that we were into religious dos and don'ts? That our hearts were away from GOd? From the beginning I have said repetitively, this is pastor led...not a lightly made decision but one that was prayerfully made.
I really do appreciate all input. I am taking all of your suggestions very seriously and I do hope that you all keep them coming. Practice is Saturday night...plese pray for us.
_____________________________
Red
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/27/2009 1:00:15 AM
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tz3
Posts: 567
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In post 63 I asked some questions of someone I should have directed at you, sorry. But it helps to know that you are on the praise and worship team.
I know change is difficult, but before you get to upset here I need to know how long you have been dealing with these changes if it is a matter of days or weeks it may not be long enough time given to see what happens.
You say you have been praying about it. And someone mentioned that leadership sometimes makes ungodly decisions, which is true, but can you sit in judgement and truely say that is what is going on here? While departing from the same o same o is difficult to get used to and perform if it is truely in the will of God for this church and shouldn't there be some trust and faith that God will see you through. After all if he brings you to it he will bring you through it. Everything is ultimately used for the glory of God.
Do you know if someone from the seniors group has communicated their distaste for how the change was announced? If they really feel like they are being disrespected just here or in other areas as well I would think someone would have spoken up by now. Usually seniors make up the elders of the church so in all likelyhood they knew about this months before you did. Now that is not to say that if you have a young pastor it might not have come off his lips just right. Live and learn and extend a little grace and forgiveness.
Also, I know for a fact that those that have money and/or age and wisdom carry a lot of weight in stearing a church for good or bad sometimes so if they knew of the changes to come there was in all likelyhood some rumblings going on in the rumor mill just prior to this. Was any of this going on?
But it sounded to me that praise music was just an outward sign of the under current of attitude felt by the general population. Yes?
If there is an under current of attitude then music is not the only area it is being felt in; especially if they feel they are being squeezed out.
Also, IDK if you are male or female, just curious. Someone else posted here that females tend to communicate in the "we" giving the impression that everyone agrees with us and men tend to communicate in the "I" giving the impression that his oppinion allone is the one and only correct one. Just wondering if there is any of this going on here?
I guess what I am getting at is if you are watching from stage as the announcement is being given and you are seeing one or two react strongly when there may be 100+ who didn't then you can't quite speak for all. Unless your in a seniors bible study and the topic comes up in conversation and everyone chimes in with the affirmative.
You accused us of not understanding or focusing on the wrong issue here so I am just trying to get my facts straight.
It helped me to know that you were part of the praise and worship team that explains how this directly impacts you regardless of age and explains how you are viewing things from stage. It also helps knowing your age and if it is mearly an observation or if you have first hand knowledge of said feelings because you yourself are a senior or you hang out with seniors. It helps people read your post in a different light. Since we are not face to face here and are not part of your church it helps to have this information.
There are a couple of books that you may find interesting reading:
What I learned while destroying a church by Gerald Brooks, D.D.
and Comeback Churches by Ed Stetzer and Mike Dodson
quote:
ORIGINAL: 29redballoons
quote:
It might not hurt to have some sort of bible study for your worship team to get them back to God instead of religious does and don'ts. Get back to the heart of Christ and it won't matter what you sing. :)))
I am kinda confused. From my posts, how did you determine that we were into religious dos and don'ts? That our hearts were away from GOd? From the beginning I have said repetitively, this is pastor led...not a lightly made decision but one that was prayerfully made.
I really do appreciate all input. I am taking all of your suggestions very seriously and I do hope that you all keep them coming. Practice is Saturday night...plese pray for us.
< Message edited by tz3 -- 3/27/2009 1:29:12 AM >
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/27/2009 2:22:53 PM
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29redballoons
Posts: 479
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Georgia
Status: offline
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tz3,
Since I first posted...03/15/09...have we been in this process.
Yes, I do sing on the praise team. That is how I am affected.
quote:
You say you have been praying about it. And someone mentioned that leadership sometimes makes ungodly decisions, which is true, but can you sit in judgement and truely say that is what is going on here?
Not only do I "say" that I have been praying about it...I have.
I never said that our leadership makes ungodly decisions.
I really do not understand where you are getting this tone from my posts.
quote:
Do you know if someone from the seniors group has communicated their distaste for how the change was announced?
As I stated earlier...no negative feedback has been voiced to any of the praise team members. I simply posted this wanting to make this as smooth as
possible and learning from others whom have been in this situation.
No money following, no undercurrents, no hidden communication, no hidden agendas.
Just praise ministry trying to bring praise and worship into the sanctuary in a God pleasing manner. =0)
quote:
You accused us of not understanding or focusing on the wrong issue here so I am just trying to get my facts straight.
Wow, didn't mean to and didn't realize that I did. I truly am appreciating all advice and am soaking it all in.
I like to learn from others who have been down the same road before.
Thank you all, and I am still listening.
_____________________________
Red
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/27/2009 3:06:14 PM
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momma_bee
Posts: 1670
Joined: 4/12/2005
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I really thought you were looking for how-to / what has worked for you information.
Hence, my comment about the organ. It may make me look unscriptural, but if the song doesn't SOUND good, you won't enjoy singing it and it will be hard to learn. So, yeah, the praise team should make it sound good. Not to elevate themselves above the congregation, not to make the worship about them, rather than God, but to be be able to teach a song.
Let's say someone says that they feel the congregation should sing Handel's Messiah this December. You aren't going to hand everyone a book and say find your place, lets start at measure 57. You are going to play the songs, see who can read the music and divide into parts. That makes for a pleasant experience for folks.
The music team - be it a praise band or old fashioned choir should know every song that might be sung. Why? Because they are leading.
Being aware there could be resistance, even if the reality is one person feels that way, can help pick a song that smooths those feelings (like putting out musical notes for those who are used to it)
And, that should be extended to everyone, not just the collection base.
The question then becomes HOW do you do any of that? Hymn of the month? Extra practices or practices that include the pastor / leader so they know the song they just introduced? Have someone sing it as a solo this month and add it next month? Whatever works with the groups of people you have and the type of service you follow. (ie, I could hear a song during an offeratory, but if you just have a box at the back, that won't work)
You are doing just fine Red. Your heart and mind are in the right place and I hope that you have lots of ideas.
< Message edited by momma_bee -- 3/27/2009 3:18:32 PM >
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/27/2009 4:08:10 PM
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tz3
Posts: 567
Status: offline
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Thanks for clearing this up. Not sure what kind of set up you have, but this is what we have:
We have a base guitar, an electric guitar, an accoustic guitar, key board, and drums and from time to time a sax player. These people are almost always the same people week in and week out but we do have others that can fill in in a moments notice if one of the regulars is not available.
We have what is call our front line. These are 3 men and 3 women who sing every service every day and know the music front and back. Many of them can and do switch parts Ie going from sorprano to alto or tenner if needed especially if someone can't make it and a song would be better with them switching parts. Out of this group any and all of them have been solo lead singers but never consecutively. Our church does not like the congregation getting attached to any one person up there on stage. They see them so much that it has been known to cause problems when someone all of the sudden stops coming. To many questions.
We also have a chior that sings twice a month. They have tried to get them more frequently but people are just to busy and unless you get at least 15 up on stage it looks rather pathetic from the audiance.
As a member of the chior we are given CD's with the music on it with the various parts and the written music to take home and practice in our free time. I usually practice in my car to and from work some at home to fine tune and at my desk at work if time permits. We get to gether for one or two practices. It depends on if it is for a regular service or something like Easter or Christmas where the pieces might be more difficult to lock down. Some of us read music and some don't so the CD's really help those that just practice by ear.
We play mostly contemporary music but have been known to pull out the Old Rugged Cross and like pieces from time to time and occasionally they through us for a loop because the accompnement is updated for the instruments we have.
The words are displayed on 2 large screens in the sanctuary for the congregation to follow along and the music is loud. 5 years ago when we first started attending the Interdenominational church we are at now my ears were not used to it and I think I might have had an ear infection at the time. It took me 6 months to get used to the volume. I had to walk out once my ears were in such pain I was crying and the person for the praise and worship team came out to see what was wrong. He assured me that they check the decible level with a decible meter before service to make sure it is not so loud it causes damage to the ears and if my ears are sensative to sit up front on the sides. For some reason the middle middle where I like to sit is the loudest. Sure enough he was right. I have adjusted and find that many more people who would not normally sing because they think they can't sing end up singing their hearts out because no one can hear them execpt the Lord. I can't explain it, but it does something to the soul to lift you up and opens up those pathways for God to communicate to you when you sing and it is like a damn breaking and love flooding inside. I think you'll find the changes to be more positive and if your attitude is positive then so will everyone else's.
Now the other problem we run into is that since our church does not like the congregation getting attached to it's praise and worship leaders the singers have the challenge of meeting the demands of the one in charge. Right now for example we are going through a change and it is uncomfortable for some because it is a different sound for us. More stacato and more back up vocals and some times the pieces they put together don't transition very well from one song to another because of a key change and we have to get creative last minute.
I hope this has helped.
It really is more about our relationship with God and getting into the right mind set to hear the word of God than it is about who is leading/singing or playing and for us it is about getting others to participate not just sit there and listen.
Last but not least we also get weekly e-mails to keep us reminded of practices, time to pick up music, sign ups for specials and we have socials from time to time like a bible study group would and some times when things are slow we do have bible studies thrown in there. We have a pot luck comming up not this weekend but next. We also have the luxury of sending music out in MP3 format for those that which to have it on their Ipod etc for practice purposes.
quote:
ORIGINAL: 29redballoons
tz3,
Since I first posted...03/15/09...have we been in this process.
Yes, I do sing on the praise team. That is how I am affected.
quote:
You say you have been praying about it. And someone mentioned that leadership sometimes makes ungodly decisions, which is true, but can you sit in judgement and truely say that is what is going on here?
Not only do I "say" that I have been praying about it...I have.
I never said that our leadership makes ungodly decisions.
I really do not understand where you are getting this tone from my posts.
quote:
Do you know if someone from the seniors group has communicated their distaste for how the change was announced?
As I stated earlier...no negative feedback has been voiced to any of the praise team members. I simply posted this wanting to make this as smooth as
possible and learning from others whom have been in this situation.
No money following, no undercurrents, no hidden communication, no hidden agendas.
Just praise ministry trying to bring praise and worship into the sanctuary in a God pleasing manner. =0)
quote:
You accused us of not understanding or focusing on the wrong issue here so I am just trying to get my facts straight.
Wow, didn't mean to and didn't realize that I did. I truly am appreciating all advice and am soaking it all in.
I like to learn from others who have been down the same road before.
Thank you all, and I am still listening.
< Message edited by tz3 -- 3/27/2009 4:15:36 PM >
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/27/2009 9:48:42 PM
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Dancre
Posts: 1280
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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You had stated earlier that your musicians were having troubled adjusting to the 'new music'.
quote:
Again, thank you all so much and we are being very prayerful in our selections. Our biggest "hold-up" (for lack of a better word) is coming from our musicians...believe it or not.
That's why I stated you might want to have a bible study so those musicians will realize it's not the music that counts, but having a heart for God.
kim
quote:
ORIGINAL: 29redballoons
quote:
It might not hurt to have some sort of bible study for your worship team to get them back to God instead of religious does and don'ts. Get back to the heart of Christ and it won't matter what you sing. :)))
I am kinda confused. From my posts, how did you determine that we were into religious dos and don'ts? That our hearts were away from GOd? From the beginning I have said repetitively, this is pastor led...not a lightly made decision but one that was prayerfully made.
I really do appreciate all input. I am taking all of your suggestions very seriously and I do hope that you all keep them coming. Practice is Saturday night...plese pray for us.
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/28/2009 8:32:32 AM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 1592
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: tz3
wow, not to make light of the situation I realize it may be multi facitade partly the musicians partly the song choices being more or all contemporary instead of old school for the seniors, but come on here. What I am hearing is that you all are being asked to change and your not happy with the changes and everyone is pointing the finger for possible reasons why it doesn't sound like it used to or being asked to play something unfamiliar or faster or louder or and for some of us who can't play but know a sower note, or slow note or rythum out of sink it can be painful on the ears to hear as we are powerless to make it sound right. I have to agree with the previous poster I think a bible study on the importance of music and its roll in worship would be a good starting point to help everyone have the right mind set and focus. Remember you all are leaders up there and if you are not focused on God and worshiping him then all your stiffness, frustration, hesitation, and awkwardness will show through in your music and it can and will be a distration for some. I think our new worship leader put it best to us this way. He said he was watching American Idol the other night and there were these two ladies singing back up vocals to this wanna be. Now these ladies could sing circles around this person and could sing any style you asked them, but for this one song they were asked to sound nasally and they pulled it off to perfection. It may not have been their preference of style but that is what was asked of them so they delivered. We are all asked to work, sing, or play as if unto God not unto man, employer or friend. It made a big difference when we all tried to sing the piece again because people were not trying to all be the lead singer and got their acts together and the sound was awesome. YKWIM.
tz3, is it possible that you have misunderstood some of the other poster's words as applying to Red?
It seems to me from reading JUST RED'S posts that the transition is going fairly smoothly. Yes there are a few bumps but nothing unexpected.
Other people have posted that terrible things happened, and some people have posted their preferences for certain types of music.
It seems to me that you may be lumping this all together, assuming it came from Red, and answering in that fashion.
I would like to suggest that you go back, read just Red's posts, and see if what you are saying still applies?
Also...I like reading your posts, but when you leave out any divisions and rarely put in punctuation, it is very hard to read and difficult to understand your thoughts. Could you perhaps separate paragraphs by a line of space?
Thanks!
shallbe
_____________________________
has decided that the command against forsaking the assembling of ourselves together shall henceforth be considered satisfied when she wakes up each morning and finds that all her body parts are still assembled...
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/28/2009 9:25:59 AM
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RJR_fan
Posts: 1193
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: RTP, in sunny NC USA
Status: offline
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quote:
The people said they want change to praise music because with out it the younger will come back !
Sounds like a case of trying to bolt the barn door after the cattle have already escaped. Sadly, more than 9 out of 10 evangelical kids head for the hills when they begin living on their own. There are reasons for this. Go through Door A, and the odds are that bad. Go through Door B, and more than 90% of the time your kids will continue to embrace your faith.
Yes, the church has a problem, if "business as usual" has a 90% defect rate, and it's not polite to discuss the elephant in the living room, the root of the issue. Attempting to lure kids back with cheap knock-offs of the music they listened to five years ago, after we have driven them away, is a pathetic exercise in futility.
_____________________________
Blogging my way through the Turkish New Testament
Meet my beloved mentor, RJR
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RE: Musical upheaval... - 3/29/2009 2:48:11 PM
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ShallbeRebuilt
Posts: 1592
Joined: 11/8/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ShallbeRebuilt
quote:
ORIGINAL: tz3
wow, not to make light of the situation I realize it may be multi facitade partly the musicians partly the song choices being more or all contemporary instead of old school for the seniors, but come on here. What I am hearing is that you all are being asked to change and your not happy with the changes and everyone is pointing the finger for possible reasons why it doesn't sound like it used to or being asked to play something unfamiliar or faster or louder or and for some of us who can't play but know a sower note, or slow note or rythum out of sink it can be painful on the ears to hear as we are powerless to make it sound right. I have to agree with the previous poster I think a bible study on the importance of music and its roll in worship would be a good starting point to help everyone have the right mind set and focus. Remember you all are leaders up there and if you are not focused on God and worshiping him then all your stiffness, frustration, hesitation, and awkwardness will show through in your music and it can and will be a distration for some. I think our new worship leader put it best to us this way. He said he was watching American Idol the other night and there were these two ladies singing back up vocals to this wanna be. Now these ladies could sing circles around this person and could sing any style you asked them, but for this one song they were asked to sound nasally and they pulled it off to perfection. It may not have been their preference of style but that is what was asked of them so they delivered. We are all asked to work, sing, or play as if unto God not unto man, employer or friend. It made a big difference when we all tried to sing the piece again because people were not trying to all be the lead singer and got their acts together and the sound was awesome. YKWIM.
tz3, is it possible that you have misunderstood some of the other poster's words as applying to Red?
It seems to me from reading JUST RED'S posts that the transition is going fairly smoothly. Yes there are a few bumps but nothing unexpected.
Other people have posted that terrible things happened, and some people have posted their preferences for certain types of music.
It seems to me that you may be lumping this all together, assuming it came from Red, and answering in that fashion.
I would like to suggest that you go back, read just Red's posts, and see if what you are saying still applies?
Also...I like reading your posts, but when you leave out any divisions and rarely put in punctuation, it is very hard to read and difficult to understand your thoughts. Could you perhaps separate paragraphs by a line of space?
Thanks!
shallbe
Apparently this post was taken as quite offensive by certain people. I was only asking for help so that I could understand what was being said, and I tried very hard to do it in a respectful manner.
I sincerely apologize for any offense that was given. It was not my intent.
I pray that those offended will be able to forgive me.
shallbe
_____________________________
has decided that the command against forsaking the assembling of ourselves together shall henceforth be considered satisfied when she wakes up each morning and finds that all her body parts are still assembled...
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