Musical upheaval... (Full Version)

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29redballoons -> Musical upheaval... (3/18/2009 6:21:11 PM)

We are changing our praise and worship service from southern gospel/hymns to more contemporary praise choruses. Have any of you gone thru this? Any suggestions to make the transition smoother? Any suggestions to make the music ministry more effective?

Thanks in advance.
Red



rcjames -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/18/2009 8:35:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29redballoons

We are changing our praise and worship service from southern gospel/hymns to more contemporary praise choruses. Have any of you gone thru this? Any suggestions to make the transition smoother? Any suggestions to make the music ministry more effective?

Thanks in advance.
Red


Take a lot of input from the congregaton and make the transition very s-l-o-w-l-y.


Thanks
RC



rogasinger4Him -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 12:37:29 AM)

Why? SG and the old hymns are the best music in the world in my humble opinion.



coolfamily6 -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 8:56:13 AM)

Our music minister does a mix of both. Our church is large and we have members from newborn to their 90's. The mix seems to work well for everyone.



Eutychus -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 9:14:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rcjames

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29redballoons

We are changing our praise and worship service from southern gospel/hymns to more contemporary praise choruses. Have any of you gone thru this? Any suggestions to make the transition smoother? Any suggestions to make the music ministry more effective?

Thanks in advance.
Red


Take a lot of input from the congregaton and make the transition very s-l-o-w-l-y.


Thanks
RC

I agree with RC. To just spring it on the congregation might have a serious backlash. I know of at least of church that fired the minister of music and ran off the pastor and a few staff members when those more interested in their favorite style than outreach to others got un-Christ-like and, well, just plain nasty.

We have a "blended" service and a "contemporary" service on Sunday Mornings. It took a few years of gradually introducing different kinds of instruments and more contemporary choruses and choir specials.



rcjames -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 9:23:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Eutychus
We have a "blended" service and a "contemporary" service on Sunday Mornings. It took a few years of gradually introducing different kinds of instruments and more contemporary choruses and choir specials.


We do both hymns and many of the more modern "Praise and Worship" songs. Periodically our music leader will read the works of older hymns before we sing them. Many folks just sing the words and never realze the beauty and poetry of some of the hymns.

At present we use piano, organ, guiars, violin, flute and subdued drums.

Thanks
RC

edited for spelling



ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 9:42:19 AM)

quote:

gree with RC. To just spring it on the congregation might have a serious backlash.


Not might. Will[;)]

My church needs to make this transition a bit, too. I have been music director there for 3 years now, and we have made very little progress. However, I have a new idea. Maybe this will work for you, too.

I recently was reading an article in which the music minister mentioned a "Hymn of the Month". As I have been unable to teach new hymns to our congregation due to major resistance, I wondered if this would be a better way to start introducing new hymns as well as more contemporary music.

My plan is to institute a "Hymn of the Month" program. I haven't got it all worked out in my mind yet (maybe y'all could help!) but doing this should accomplish several positives:

1) The congregation would be prepared for new stuff. "Hey folks, we're going to start having a "Hymn of the Month". Every Sunday we'll sing the Hymn of the Month in both the morning and evening services".

2) It will be the same hymn for a whole month. There's no way to avoid learning the hymn, so the complaint can no longer be "we don't know that one".

3) The first Sunday of the month's special music will always be planned: the choir will introduce the new month's hymn.

4) And of course, it doesn't have to be a hymn...just a worship song.[;)]

A few other ideas I've had to go along with this are:

somehow setting it up so that people can comment on the hymn and how it has applied to their life this week/month. Maybe by way of a small form available in the pew pockets, or perhaps a slight change in the Wednesday night praise service.

Printing the Hymn of the Month out and putting it in small report folders available to each seat. Eventually there would be a collection of these that we could bind together with comb binding. This would allow for incorporation of worship songs that are not in the hymnbook without scaring people to death with either lack of words to look at or overhead projectors and such (this scares my congregation silly. They just cannot deal with words on a screen for some reason.)

For more ideas...if you are also switching from a choir to a praise band, you can do it in increments. Keep your keyboardists, whether they are pianists and/or organists. Start with a guitarist, added during one of your most laid-back services. Then allow the guitarist to play during Sunday morning worship with the hymns/SG music. Then add a percussionist with ONE instrument...bongo, djembe, tambourine. Nothing more--don't introduce a full trap set! Next you could incorporate your bass guitarist, and start doing contemporary music for special music time. Start thinking who in your choir would make a good praise band member. Eventually you'll need that information.

Anyway, that's the way I'd do it if I had access to musicians like that.

shallbe



rawr.ben -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 12:21:49 PM)

Also . . stick to your guns on this. Sometimes people will rebel against it, but continue in the process if you believe in it.



sunshinesoprano -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 12:27:19 PM)

I don't understand why it has to be one or the other! [:@]

Are the old hymns and SG now obselete because of the praise and worship choruses?

I won't make this a debate about contemporary music, but I will say that while some of it is AWESOME, some of it is mindless drivel that was nothing more than a hook and a sequencer.

Nevertheless, back to your question. My solution is a blend, and if you don't want half your church to leave or your seniors to leave after Sunday School, (who are your tithe base, by the way), a blend is the way to go.



ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 12:41:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinesoprano

I don't understand why it has to be one or the other! [:@]

Are the old hymns and SG now obselete because of the praise and worship choruses?

I won't make this a debate about contemporary music, but I will say that while some of it is AWESOME, some of it is mindless drivel that was nothing more than a hook and a sequencer.

Nevertheless, back to your question. My solution is a blend, and if you don't want half your church to leave or your seniors to leave after Sunday School, (who are your tithe base, by the way), a blend is the way to go.


I agree with this whole post. To me, it's not a debate. The point is: does the music we use in church service lift up Christ and edify the body? Many hymns are flat out unscriptural. Many SG songs are too, and a few mention only obscure scripture that needs explaining before being sung. And many contemporary worship songs are drivel, with no God-glorifying or scriptural encouragement value whatsoever.

The point is: don't choose your music based on type-preference. Choose it based on whether it preaches the gospel, lifts up Christ, gives God His due honor, communicates solid theology, and focuses on God rather than ourselves.

Do that, and you'll be honoring the command to preach the gospel and the principles upon which the church is built. You can find those type of songs/hymns in any genre--but in every genre you HAVE to be choosy.

shallbe



French100 -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 2:07:05 PM)

Best thing: is the music you feel led to do uplift God? And u saw that on hear numerous times. I am really contemporary, but I also love the simplicity of Amazing Grace and What a Day that Will Be (two GREAT hymns).

We have a STRONG mix at our church. Major traditionalists and major contemporary. We do a mix. I agree go slowly. There are all kinds of "new" versions of old hymns out today. Maybe your slow process could mix some of that - then the words are the same but its in a new light - then you can maybe grow from there.



rcjames -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 2:25:36 PM)

Herer is something to consider if you are trying to change the music.

Print the new praise songs in a little booklet and let the "Older" congregants hold and read from the booklet instead of reading off the wall.

This may sound crazy, but many of the "Older" folks (and those that support the Church really well) like the comfort of holding something in their hands (they just as a whole seem to be uncomfrotable about what to do with thier hands with the multi-media projection thingys). Probably lots of reasons why, but it does help in the transitional phases.

As I said make changes s-l-0-w-l-y. or prepare for an uprising of great proportions.

Thanks
RC



29redballoons -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 2:41:03 PM)

Okay, thanks for your replies...

We are going slowly.
This is a pastor led shift of the type music.
I personally have wanted the change for years.
SG and hymns are fine...but we literally have been singing the same few for years. I am sick of
singing them, and I know folks are sick of hearing them.
We have printed the words and put them in a three ring folder in each hymnal holder.


Nevertheless, back to your question. My solution is a blend, and if you don't want half your church to leave or your seniors to leave after Sunday School, (who are your tithe base, by the way), a blend is the way to go.
We are blending, new, old, and in between...as to the other part of your above statement, we don't want anyone to leave...and I am not a senior and I tithe the way I am supposed to... [;)]

I also like songs that blend the two types of music together...Grace Like Rain is a great example...we need more like that.

Again, thank you all so much and we are being very prayerful in our selections. Our biggest "hold-up" (for lack of a better word) is coming from our musicians...believe it or not.



ShallbeRebuilt -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 2:45:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29redballoons


Again, thank you all so much and we are being very prayerful in our selections. Our biggest "hold-up" (for lack of a better word) is coming from our musicians...believe it or not.



Ah...let me guess. The reason is that they can't play from chord charts...gotta have their dots.

Am I right?

shallbe



tafkam -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 4:29:28 PM)

I agree on the advice of taking it SLOW. I've seen too many music ministers and pastors lose their jobs over make too drastic a shift.

And I hope you're not talking about doing P&W stuff at the expense of the hymns. I think there's a place for both, and the two can compliment each other quite nicely.

The only criteria should be: pick songs that are conducive to an atmosphere of worship. Not what's hot on the charts, and not what the oldest families in the church have been singing for years just because "that's the way we've always done it".

quote:

Why? SG and the old hymns are the best music in the world in my humble opinion.


God is much bigger than any musical style, and He is certainly bigger than our petty little tastes....



29redballoons -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/19/2009 11:08:22 PM)

God is much bigger than any musical style, and He is certainly bigger than our petty little tastes....


Maybe that should be our praise teams new t-shirts....lol
I am teasing, but what a true statement...hits me between the
eyes, cause I know the hymns I am sick of minister to many.
I can't be biased on my own tastes either.

The line up for this week is in the works...ya'll just remember us in prayer.



DaveW -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/20/2009 6:36:13 AM)

What RC said. Go very slowly. Find contemporary songs that sound close to hymns and SG songs and start by introducing them.

A couple of suggestions:

"I want to walk as a child of the Light" is a semi-contemporary hymn style song that came from the renewal (Jesus) movement.

"Amazing Love" borrows lyrics from a Charles Wesley hymn.



Consecrated2God -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/20/2009 4:08:18 PM)

We're introducing some new music in our church, too. Right now we only play on Wednesday nights, and it is a drastic difference from Sunday morning to Wednesday night. The people seem to really enjoy it, though. The musicians that have been playing on Sunday mornings for the past twenty years are enjoying a break from playing where they can just worship and not have to worry about hitting the right notes. When we first proposed the idea, some of the people were a bit leery about the change, but the ones that were the most hesitant are the ones who are enjoying it the most now. Our Wednesday night attendance has really picked up.

At the moment we have no plans to change Sunday mornings to contemporary. We don't want to alienate our faithful musicians who play. What I would like to see is the two bands gradually joining and becoming one, but I would like to see it happen naturally. I don't want them to feel like we're kicking them out.



29redballoons -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/20/2009 7:55:33 PM)

Lisa, I watched the video of you guys. I loved the sound. Look slike you all are doing well.
We are using the same musicians and they arefabulous and more than capable. Very talented
people! We are also going as slowly as possible and Sunday nights are still straight from the
hymnal, so we are trying very hard to not alienate anyone. We want to bring praise into the service
because aware or not...it has been lacking.

Oh, and I love the song Amazing Love and will research the other one that you mentioned.
Thanks for all suggestions, I am taking each post very seriously.



Consecrated2God -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/21/2009 9:33:37 AM)

quote:

Lisa, I watched the video of you guys. I loved the sound. Look slike you all are doing well.


Thank you. [:)] We've been surprised that this change hasn't been more controversial--it's so hard to figure out beforehand what changes are going to upset people and what won't. The things we think people will like they all get upset about, and something we think is going to be a real issue no one even blinks at. It's crazy.

Our lead guitarist in our band told us that he's seen bands like this split churches, and that he's surprised everyone likes us.



spt304 -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/22/2009 9:34:21 AM)

I was also in a Church that decided thaat they needed to change the music to "attract" younger people. Several people expressed concern about the high volume. The leader informed the conderned brothers and sisters that it had to be LOUD so the younger people would like it. Their test for volume was that their sister did not get a headache, so the music was ok. The very people who pushed for the change left the church in a few months to start their own following.
PLEASE consider the older members as it was memtion earlier, they are and have been the support bases financially, spiritually and attendance much longer than most pastors and music directors have been in the Church. I am only against change only when it appears to a section of the church they are second class Christians and they don't really matter.
Older members feel helpless when faced with such issues and it appears that their concerns do not matter.

Thanks for reading and seek God's guidance in your plans.
God Bless.



29redballoons -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/22/2009 4:33:53 PM)

Today seemed to go well. We are getting a lot of positive feedback and I am guessing if they didn't like it...
they would say so, or they would say nothing at all...so I am guessing the positive is sincere. Wouldn't you think?



Consecrated2God -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/22/2009 5:17:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 29redballoons

Today seemed to go well. We are getting a lot of positive feedback and I am guessing if they didn't like it...
they would say so, or they would say nothing at all...so I am guessing the positive is sincere. Wouldn't you think?


I agree. There are always some people will just keep their mouths shut if they have problems because they don't want to "rock the boat", but most people will let you know somehow if they don't like it. We have one gentlement in our church who will say, "I've been hearing people talk..." and you know the person he's referring to is himself. [;)] But we're in the same boat right now--we've had some people who have said good things, and others who haven't said much of anything, but they are coming, and they are worshiping, so we're going to assume they are happy with it unless they say otherwise.



praznhim -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/23/2009 8:00:45 AM)

I love SG and and sang it for years... I love the hymns and most contemporary music for worship. I have seen changing music styles as betrayal to some older members. Incorporating the contemporary and slowly increasing the number of worship songs while maintaining SG and hymns as "songs of the faith" have worked out better...as I stated above.

There are some who "worship in SG or hymn style" that are unfamiliar with the "freedom" of the contemporary songs (and most are tricky melodically for most worship leaders as it is) so they need to be VERY singable...As the deer, You are my all in all, Seek ye first, Purify our hearts, O Give Thanks (and other Hallelujah songs) are a few very traditional contemporary songs that are usually well received. I have also heard the hymns done in a "more contemporary style" and be well received as well.

Interesting how we so closely associate our comfort with the musical style that we know...isn't it funny that we think SO MUCH of what we want when we GO TO WORSHIP God? Isn't what HE wants a little more important?The song "Heart of Worship"... if done prayerfully and with introduction of HOW the song came about (Matt Redman) would help the congregation see that the "new" style of worship and why the change it occuring is that worship really is ALL about Jesus!!! It is NOT about us and our comfort but what we are able to offer Him of our lives and hearts.



29redballoons -> RE: Musical upheaval... (3/23/2009 9:34:11 AM)

Interesting how we so closely associate our comfort with the musical style that we know...isn't it funny that we think SO MUCH of what we want when we GO TO WORSHIP God? Isn't what HE wants a little more important?

That is a true statement, but I prayerfully believe this is not the case with us. We were asked by the pastor so that more freedom would be introduced.
SG and the hymns are much easier to sing...and change is always frustrating and really a very spiritual battle. We feel satan's opposition very phisically in the sanctuary. he is not happy with our change at all.

On a sad note...please continue to pray as one of our musicians left yesterday with her family...we are saddened and now in the need of another musician.



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